New to High Power, first build

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Hank

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Mar 23, 2006
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Hello everyone,
Let me start off by saying thanks. I've been lurking for awhile learning and getting ready for my first build. I have learned so much here and a couple of other sites that will help me avoid mistakes, there is no book big enuf or with this much info. I got back into rocketry because of my boys, 8 and 10. I've been building and helping them build for about a year and a half now.

Over the past three months, I built two mid power kits and a couple of larger ones for the kids, but just couldn't resist the temptation to do a couple of high power rockets.

The kit I selected was a PML BUll Puppy. Personally, I like the military missile styles and this goes right up my alley.

It isn't quite as big as the Nike Ajax from Launch Pad, but the power will be a considerable step up.

A couple of things I want to do to this project that I think will help. Any suggestions are certainly welcome.

First, I want to use an Aeropack retainer system, my only problem with this is that I have called twice and sent two emails and no reply, are they still in business or did I just catch them at a bad time?

I plan to use a nomex sleave for the chute and cords, I have several old nomex flight suits that can contribute to the project.

I will probably only shoot 29 mm motors out of this model, there really isn't any clubs very close. Baton Rouge is about 3 hours as is B'ham. I'll probably go with the PML adapter.

I do plan on foaming the can for additional strength.

As far as tools go, I have a small lathe, about every power tool and pleanty of hand tools, this really isn't an issue.

I would eventually want to incorporate an altimeter system and audio alarm to help find the rocket if needed. Seen the strings here and I have some of the pool alarms laying around. They are small, self contained and painfully loud.

Thanks anyhow, look forward to sharing my experiences and learning from all of you.
r
Hank
 
I'm sure you'll love the kit. My dad has one, and it was his L1 rocket. Flies great on mid G motors (G64, G77, G79, etc) to about 1000-1200 feet, and if you shove in a mid H, it'll boost quickly to 2200 feet or so (my dad's favorite motor for his is an H148).
 
Originally posted by flyr98


By the way, the photo on the left in my post is a shot of my Bullpuppy on a Loki I405 just before it shredded.

I'm not surprised it shredded either :rolleyes:

That motor hits HARD
 
Steve,
I have looked at your thread in detail. A great souce of information for the Bull Puppy and all other rockets.
Thanks very much for posting it.
R
Hank
 
You are very welcome Hank.

clj, I know :D that's why I picked it:D :D
When it came down, it was in bad shape :kill:
 
Originally posted by Hank

First, I want to use an Aeropack retainer system, my only problem with this is that I have called twice and sent two emails and no reply, are they still in business or did I just catch them at a bad time?

Just call Wildman Rocketry seems to have a good selection of Aeropack retainers in stock, at least I got mine very quickly.

-Tim
 
Originally posted by Hank
Hello everyone,
Let me start off by saying thanks. I've been lurking for awhile learning and getting ready for my first build. I have learned so much here and a couple of other sites that will help me avoid mistakes, there is no book big enuf or with this much info. I got back into rocketry because of my boys, 8 and 10. I've been building and helping them build for about a year and a half now.
While you are right that there is no book with everything, I just got Modern High Power Rocketry 2 by Mark Canepa, and it cleared up a lot of things for me. You might wanna give it a try. I know that if I had gotten it when I started, it would have saved me from a couple mistakes.
You can find it here: Modern High Power Rocketry
 
I also have the Modern Rocketry 2 book. It is a great resource. Also, I have bought a lot of stuff from Wildman Rocketry. Tim does a pretty good job of taking care of us and usually ships pretty quickly.
 
For the Aeropack:

Wildman does a great job and usually has what you need for the Aeropacks. Aeropack doesn't answer phones (in my experience) and slow (if ever) answers emails., but if you know what you want/need just order online and it's never been a problem for me. They are very quick. I ordered a tailcone retainer about a month ago direct from them. It came in about 3 days.
 
Thanks guys,
Yes, I had seen that the book was available and been contemplating purchasing it. I guess I'll have to now. From what I have heard it is well worth it.
R
Hank
 
Hank,

I have a Bull Puppy and I used a Nomex shield instead of the piston that was supplied with the kit. From your post I believe that you are doing the same.

If you do that be sure to go to a long delay on an H123 or H148. I tried a medium delay and actually zippered the Quantum tube!

This puppy really hauls the mail so you don't want to throw out the anchor on the way up.
 
Originally posted by flyr98
By the way, the photo on the left in my post is a shot of my Bullpuppy on a Loki I405 just before it shredded.

Great kit. My buddy's took quite a bit of abuse before it's latest flight. We recently shreaded it on a I366R. We were able to find all the pieces, and are currently rebuilding it.
 
I have a PML Bull Pup. I used a Giant Leap Slim Line for motor retention. You just have to use an extnded motor tube in order to make it fit.

JP
 
That is pretty ironic, I have Giant Leap open in another window and was looking at this exact product.

I am trying to decide on exactly how do deal with retention this weekend and have pretty much decided to go that way or w/ the aero pacs. Just need to make up my mind.

Also need to decide once and for all what type launch lugs to use. I like the ones Giant leap has, but would am still trying to decide on rods vs buttons vs rails. I really like the looks of the rails.

So far, I have all the fins shaped and sanded, body tube sanded, forward fins epoxied w/ 30 min epoxy and filleted with microballs/epoxy, engine tube epoxied in place w/ strap. I don't have the foam yet, so that step is on hold till I can get some. Living in a small town in Mississippi means just about everything has to be mail ordered.

I'll try to post some pictures tomorrow.

Thanks for the ideas.
R
Hank
 
You've got to get the book...it is worth every penny. I am looking at mine constantly.

Good luck with the Bull Pup...
 
IMHO, go with Aeropack. They can handle any case on the market. Slimlines are limiting. Also, the ACME rail guides from GLR are good. Regular rail buttons (also from GLR) work great too. No matter what, go with a rail.

Originally posted by Hank
That is pretty ironic, I have Giant Leap open in another window and was looking at this exact product.

I am trying to decide on exactly how do deal with retention this weekend and have pretty much decided to go that way or w/ the aero pacs. Just need to make up my mind.

Also need to decide once and for all what type launch lugs to use. I like the ones Giant leap has, but would am still trying to decide on rods vs buttons vs rails. I really like the looks of the rails.

So far, I have all the fins shaped and sanded, body tube sanded, forward fins epoxied w/ 30 min epoxy and filleted with microballs/epoxy, engine tube epoxied in place w/ strap. I don't have the foam yet, so that step is on hold till I can get some. Living in a small town in Mississippi means just about everything has to be mail ordered.

I'll try to post some pictures tomorrow.

Thanks for the ideas.
R
Hank
 
I have to disagree. Normally, I'd reccomend Aeropack, but the slimlines have a cleaner look on MD or tailcone rockets, and I have yet to find a motor that won't work with the slimline (note: if you go slimline, get the THREADED version, not the snap ring kind).
 
Loki cases, or any snap ring case for that matter, don't work.
 
I have to disagree. I have used a Loki I405 in my AMRAAM, which is fitted with a threaded slimline. The snap ring slimline would not work, but the threads allow it to adjust for different motors, allowing the snap ring cases to work fine.
 
Yeah, I suppose that the threaded ones would work, I was talking about the snap ring ones.
 
Followed Steve's lead on the aft section, a bit of motor tube extends till I can get a slimline motor retainer. I slid the motor tube in w/ epoxy at about the 3/4 inch mark. Then quickly wrapped about 4 layers of blue painters tape on the end of the tube to keep the epoxy from leaking out the crack. Wrapped the bottom in wet paper towels to cure.

I drilled small holes along the fin slits to give the epoxy added room to get a grip.
Aslo sanded down with 220 for a good adhesion w/ the epoxy and because it is easier to sand w/out the fins.

I am only using 30 min epoxy and occaisional JB weld where needed on the rocket.

Here the aft section is ready for the fins.
 
Forward fins on main body tube.
Tube has been sanded, fins put on with first layer of 30 min epoxy and now filleted w/ 30 min epoxy w/ microballs filler.
 
I got the main fins on, fillets done inside and outside. Then, a second layer on the external fillets of epoxy mixed w/ phenolic microballons (brown) as a "pre finish" layer. I used 30 min epoxy for all the internal fillets and external as well as the mix of microballons. The microballons are supposed to lighten the epoxy and make it easier to sand. It may be lighter, but it is still some pretty tuff stuff to sand!
The fabric in the bottom of the pic is a nomex sleeve that my wife sewed out of some nomex from an old flight suit to slide down over the internal strap to give it a bit of protection.
 
Here is the whole thing ruff together.
The only things left to do are pour the foam in the can, put the top retaining ring in, install an engine retaining system, finish the can to the main body, finish the cords and lines/piston system and sand and paint and sand and paint and ........
I ordered the foam, rail guides and slim line engine retaining system from Great Leap this morning.
Should be able to start painting this weekend. As you can see, the nose cone is pretty much done. I really want a very nice paint job on this one.
R
Hank
 
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