Relative newbie, looking to step up.

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DOCSpanky

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I have been flying a-c motors for about a year now and am looking into stepping up to the E, F class to get some more thrill, as well as more involvement building the kits.

I saw a neat rocket at a meet a few weeks ago, it was, I believe, (cause the guy beat feet shortly after his launch and I never got to ask him questions), custom built, it had a boost stage of 3 or 4 C6 motors, that somehow lit off an E class when the c's were burnt out. It was a single bodied rocket, so nothing separated after the c's, the c's were all clustered around the E. How did he do this, and are there any plans any of you are aware of or better yet kits to build such a monster. This sucker really went out of sight, much higher than the 800+/- ft. I have obtained with my lightest single c's.

I am still on the outside looking in at the true depths of this hobby. I would really like to find a kit that will easily punch the 1500 ft. barrier and still not need strokin high dollar components. I have seen some E/F models that claim to bust 1700, any reccomendations? Mainly wanting to stay E level as we don't have a really good model rocket store in middle Tennessee that I am aware of.

Also I have seen altitude trackers and speed/acceleration trackers, but I can't seem to find one that is all in one. Any suggestions?

Any items like the estes ASTROCAM that you can reccomend as well?

Again, I know these are lots of questions, but I am looking to take the next step. But the c class motors at least in single motor form just aren't as exciting as they used to be. I am tired of launching with "the little kids":rolleyes:

DOC
 
If you stick with Estes black powder engines: an Estes Eliminator, preferably purchased at a 40-50% off at Michaels or Hobby Lobby, flying with an E9-6 will get you an impressive flight to around 1700+.

Or, build a rocket with a 29mm mount such as an Aerotech Arreaux or Loc Aura that can fly on 24mm E motors with an adapter, or F and G motors if you really want the altitude.

-Eric-
 
An Apogee Aspire can use D thru G motors with an adapter.
They claim 5000 ft with and F10 engine!!

It is 4 fins and a nose cone, typical low power construction methods.

You can also go multistaged with D and E Estes engines.
 
I love my Aerotech Arreaux. It will get a very low and slow flight on a D12-3 to about 300 feet, or a screaming high flight to about 3200 feet on a G64 - and anything in between. One of my favorite flights for it is about 2300 feet on an F40-10. I would HIGHLY reccomend it as a versatile and high-altitude mid power rocket.
 
I like flying my Estes Executioner on F24-7 motors. The 24mm RMS reloadable motors give you a lot of bang for the buck and can be used in a number of Estes kits as well as Aerotech kits, but be forwarded: AP reloading IS addictive. I have flown my Estes Blue Ninja on a F39, was very fast off the pad.
 
Hi Doc and welcome to the forum!

you are correct that we have few "rocket" vendors in Tennessee
and no motor vendors inside the state.. you are lucky if one shows up at a launch.

usually,the internet is my supplier
If you would like a cluster , Fliskits Richter Recker comes to mind
also the Loc precision viper III,

load one up with E9's and you can expect around 1,700

there are so many choices.
 
Styme is right about one thing, no vendors in Tennessee. It is also hard to find a place to launch in East Tenn because so many trees. I buy all my rockets and motors off the internet. That Estes Eliminator is a good choice if you want to launch something fast and high. It is also very cheap. I have one that I fly on 24 mm reloads. Very durable and cheap, my kinda rocket.
 
Originally posted by DOCSpanky
I have been flying a-c motors for about a year now and am looking into stepping up to the E, F class to get some more thrill, as well as more involvement building the kits.

<snip> ... much higher than the 800+/- ft. I have obtained with my lightest single c's.

I am still on the outside looking in at the true depths of this hobby. I would really like to find a kit that will easily punch the 1500 ft. barrier and still not need strokin high dollar components. I have seen some E/F models that claim to bust 1700, any reccomendations? Mainly wanting to stay E level as we don't have a really good model rocket store in middle Tennessee that I am aware of.

DOC

A few comments from someone who is sort of in the same shoes:

Is it really altitude you are looking for? Because, if so, you can go higher than 800 ft. on a C with the right rocket, one that is designed for minimum drag and optimum coast. (Remember, too little mass can hurt on altitude, not just too much mass.) I have stock kits that do over 1000 ft. A lightweight rocket with a low thrust, long burn motor will usually outperform, altitude-wise, a bigger, heavier rocket with a higher impulse motor.

Or are you looking for BIGGER rockets that will go to those altitudes? Bigger doesn't automatically mean higher, as the higher mass works against you. As does overbuilding. You don't need a ton of epoxy and glass for the range you're talking about, just good, solid, correctly done glue joints and maybe some lightweight reinforcing in the MM and a reliable recovery system. You can take a number of the bigger commercial C-impulse kits and upgrade them with a 24mm MM to fly them on D, E and maybe F motors, which could be a good transition step for you. (You didn't mention having flown D motored rockets.) Make sure you understand stability and design/test for it if you put in heavier motors; you may have to add nose weight. And the motors won't cost you nearly as much as the bigger ones.

I'm probably in the vast minority (is that an oxymoron?) here, but I don't get that much of a thrill out of high altitude flights. Once it's out of sight, it makes no difference to me how high it went. I guess that's where the altimeter comes in, huh? :)
-Jim
 
I've done flights in excess of 1500ft with my Estes Cluster Bomb and Estes Patriot with a little modification. ;) I've also done it with my stock Estes Eliminator as well. I have flown the Cluster Bomb 3 times on an E28T, the Patriot on D12's, E9's and E18W's, and the Eliminator on D12's, E9's and E18W's. I bought an Estes D/E engine mount kit and upgraded (technical term 'Bashed') the Cluster Bomb and Patriot motor mount. The concern is finding kits like these back after you launch them. They kind of nearly disappear at those altitudes (depending on how good your eyes are). I usually use streamer recovery (3"x50") when flying these models that high so they don't drift away.
 
True. As mentioned, there are stock estes kits that will do 2000 feet on just a C motor. 800 feet is far from the limit. It is also true, however, that it is a lot easier to find larger rockets after they have flown to those heights than it is to find a tiny little minimum diameter kit.
 
Mt Motto after loosing my first initiator in its maiden flight.
BIG-N-LOW
No sense going any higher than you can see the darn thing, that is until it is your only goal of altitude.
just my 150.00 bucks worth, Cost of the rocket(ya it came with a launcher I still got)
 
I'm looking for 1500-2000ft. with a slow as possible noisy as possible ascent. It needs to have a payload bay as I am convinced someone somewhere has to make a complete avionics bay that measures not only speed and altitude but has a microcam for video or stills in it somewhere?

Am I just dreaming? Or is that like asking for an american made car to last till payoff without eating a transmission or some other $2k+ component?:D

DOC
 
Originally posted by DOCSpanky
It needs to have a payload bay as I am convinced someone somewhere has to make a complete avionics bay that measures not only speed and altitude but has a microcam for video or stills in it somewhere?

I don't know about a "complete" avionics bay, at least not for low- or mid-powered rockets. You may have to step up to some serious $$$$ to find anything like a pre-made, does-it-all avionics bay, because it would most likely be offered only for a high-power application.

There is a lot of info already posted, here on TRF (use the "search" button) as well as other websites, on how to build your own video payload. You don't particularly need a H-powered monster to hoist such a payload, it can be done quite well with D and E Estes motors.

There are also lots of altimeters and other electronic payloads readily available but you're going to have to build your own payload bay and installation. These electronics can be fitted inside body sizes as small as BT20 (0.7 inch diam).

The Estes Stormcaster is widely available, reasonably priced at full sticker rates, and a downright bargain with a 40%-off coupon (check your local Michael's craft store, and the Sunday newspaper advert, or check your local HobLob and watch for an internet coupon). The BT60 (1.6 inch diam) Stormcaster tube is plenty big enough to carry pencams, altimeters, and lots of other goodies, and you can easily get more parts (BT, couplers, etc) if you want to enlarge the payload bay. The basic rocket can be boosted even higher with a CHAD D-motor booster stage, or it can be converted to 29mm composite motors (if you must).


And welcome to TRF! We are glad you joined in, and hope that we can be helpful with your questions. Better be careful, though, because if you hang around here long enough you will find **yourself** answering *other* folks' questions!
 
So maybe kitbashing some components from the estes ORACLE, and well as the estes altimeter/speed calculator from one of their other kits, and getting it balanced out to fly on a D or E?

Thoughts?

I am trying to show my son that rockets are scientific tools as well as lots of fun.
 
Originally posted by DOCSpanky
I have been flying a-c motors for about a year now and am looking into stepping up to the E, F class to get some more thrill, as well as more involvement building the kits.

Mainly wanting to stay E level as we don't have a really good model rocket store in middle Tennessee that I am aware of.

I am tired of launching with "the little kids":rolleyes:

DOC

Let me offer a few thoughts about your post, because I think you have your best flying still ahead of you.

First, abandon the premise that supplies will be bought locally. Adopt the internet as the best purchase method. There are many good vendors who offer fair prices. See recommendations on other threads in TRF.

Next, the single biggest thing I think helps eliminate the feeling of "playing with the little kids" is using Aerotech Reloadable Motor System ("RMS") motors. These are *much* louder and exciting, along with being cheaper in the long run. You'll be looking at motors in the D-G range. Even a RMS D13 packs a lot of punch in a small rocket, and a G64 will knock your socks off. Stick a 18mm D13 into a standard small model rocket kit and experience performance like an Estes Mosquito: launch it and lose it. Stick a G64 in anything and scare the pants off your spouse/neighbors/kids.

I agree with someone earlier who said that higher isn't all that exciting once it's out of sight. Boosting a big rocket (say a 3" or 4" diam mid-power) to 1000 or 1500 feet on a ear-shattering smoke and fire spitting G64 RMS is more fun for me. In addition to "bigger", you can develop your hobby by trying clusters, staged rockets, and boost-gliders. Each offers its own set of challenges, and provides exciting flights.

Finally, another fun way to go is to design rockets from scratch, built with parts bought over the internet. If creativity and craftsmanship lure you to the hobby, then scratch building can be a lot of fun, and you can push the design envelope much further than with commercial kits.

You've found here one of the two best resources for rocket info on the Web. The other is EMRR. Both will give you lots of ideas about how to keep the fun in the hobby. Enjoy!

Geof
 
Originally posted by DOCSpanky
So maybe kitbashing some components from the estes ORACLE, and well as the estes altimeter/speed calculator from one of their other kits, and getting it balanced out to fly on a D or E?

Thoughts?

I am trying to show my son that rockets are scientific tools as well as lots of fun.

You want to start looking at the stuff at these sites:

www.boostervision.com
www.perfectflite.com

But be warned that when you put a $100 camera and a $100 altimeter into your rocket, you might find yourself thinking twice about flying to 2000 feet and opening a parachute at that height.

I think you'll find that people uniformly recommend against that Estes altimeter thing (not a real altimeter), and that there are mixed feelings about the Oracle.
 
I like the PerfectFlite and Booster vision stuff too.
I also have a picoAlt. It is very small and runs off of the coin cell batteries so it can be made to fit in small Estes type rockets without affecting their performance too much. It just measures peak altitude.

https://www.picoalt.com/
 
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