Shipping Motors/Engines

The Rocketry Forum

Help Support The Rocketry Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.

Countdown Hobbies

Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 12, 2005
Messages
999
Reaction score
1
Well due to some chat in another post I compiled a basic web page on shipping motors. It has the basic rules for Estes/Quest and Aerotech.

https://www.countdownhobbies.com/shippingmotors.htm

I cannot guarentee that the facts are correct/ or up date date legally but I did compile them direct from the source.

Please follow these rules breaking them is hurting the hobby and showing how irresposible dealers/consumers make the mail "dangerous" and add to the case of the nay sayers

Avoid ROL auctions with motors that arent form autorized dealers

Avoid Dealers that break the rules

Avoid anything that seems wrong...

Don't break the law and give rocketry a bad image it ruins it for all of the great people and dealers who follow the rules.

ehh I was just in here when I made this and then noticed I posted in what seems to be the wrong section so feel free to move away mods...
 
Originally posted by shreadvector
Anything incorrect with this link that we've been pointing to for a very long time?

https://www.nar.org/pdf/shipping_rocket_motors.pdf
Fred

That's a fine link, but has a bit more information than most folks will remember.

As a certified HAZMAT shipper, I think I can state it very clearly.

1.) The USPS will accept small sport rocket motors for shipment by individuals, but only under certain limited conditions.

First, they will accept only motors that are classified 1.4S/NA0323 (30 grams or less of propellant), and that are packaged and marked appropriately (see below).

Second, the shipper must present to their Postmaster a "Letter of Authorization" addressed to them personally from the USPS Manager of Mail Preparations and Standards (475 L'Enfant Plaza SW, Washington, DC 20260), which authorizes them to enter these motors into the U.S. Mail. Getting such a letter requires 30-60 days, and requires the consumer to provide specific information about the motors that he plans to ship, including a dimensioned drawing and a Material Safety Data Sheet for each motor type. Once it is issued, the letter of authorization is valid only for 1 year.

USPS requirements for shipping small rocket motors are that the motors be in individual sealed packaging, well-cushioned from shock inside an outer package; that the outer package be strong and securely sealed fiberboard, no more than 25 pounds in weight; and that the package be marked "Toy Propellant Devices, Handle With Care" and "Surface Mail Only" with no HAZMAT labels. The Surface Mail requirement means that the motors must be shipped by Parcel Post only, not by Priority Mail or Express Mail.

Any attempt to get around this procedure is illegal. Period. An individual without a hazardous materials shipping certification and/or an explosives license can't legally ship single use rocket motors or reloadable rocket motors with individual fuel grains weighing more than 30 grams. Period. End of Story. A stiff fine is certain, and jail time is likely if you get caught violating the law. It's not worth the risk.

2.) A business with a Hazardous Shipping account can ship rocket motors containing not more than 62.5 grams of propellant, and propellant grains with not more than 62.5 grams of propellant by UPS Ground, FED EX Ground, or common carrier as a fully regulated hardardous material, unless the person is entitled to use a manufacturer's exemption (which only reduces the documentation and packaging requirements). All shipping must be in UN approved packaging, and be properly marked, and documented in compliance with DOT and/or UN regulations, and are subject to a hazardous material handling fee over and above standard shipping charges.

Shipping any motor or fuel grain with more than 62.5 grams of propellant requires an explosives permit and a hazardous shipping certification. The shipment must be by common carrier. Everything must be properly packaged, documented, labeled and logged according to BATFE and DOT regulations.

The government is very serious about enforcing the laws on hazardous material shipments. If you are caught, and the odds are pretty good that you will be, the DOT fine for failing to disclose a hazardous shipment is typically $25,000 per incident! (This includes anything marked flamable such as paint, certain glues, matches, etc. so be warned.) Misspelling, mislabeling, improper packing or documentation errors result in a minimum DOT fine of $750 per mistake! Since the carrier is fined as well as the business, the carrier also checks the documentation, labeling and packaging. If you make a mistake, and it is detected before the carrier accepts it, you get a warning and the package is returned. If the mistake is detected by the carrier after it has been accepted, you are warned, the package is destroyed, and you are billed for the disposal costs. If you make 3 mistakes in a reporting period, you loose your hazmat shipping certification. Furthermore it is highly probable that shipping explosives without a license will get you jail time today.

Bob
 
Originally posted by jcrocket
I didn't see this information posted anywhere at walmart. How do you suppose grandma is going to know all this when she ships that starter pack to little johnny?

Maybe instead of telling a very small percentage of model rocket consumers the thing to do is to write the manufacturer, distributers, and government about adding warning information to the packaging.

At the very least you can write the post master and suggest that their agents understand those rules when someone asks them if it's ok to ship rocket motors.

That is Estes fault... and Walmarts for that matter. We offer to ship any gifts out for people with motors.

The bigger problem is with Dealers and some consumers in the know who decide to knowingly break the rules to either save a few bucks or entice customers by avoiding HAZMAT fees.
 
Originally posted by jcrocket
Obviously, and why I suggested writting.I see no evidence that this is a bigger problem. Whether they do so knowingly or not, the danger is the same.

If there is a vendor who is not following the rules, report them to Estes and the USPS. If there are auctions promoting usps shipping, report them to the USPS and the auction site.

Certainly the usps would like to question some of the sellers here.

It is a bigger problem becuase of the trickle effect, if a distributor ships to a vendor wrong and then a vendor ships to a customer wrong now 2 new people think its ok becuase of one distributors mistake... thats bigger than grandmas 2 engine starter set.

The problem with reporting it is that it will get blown out of proportion... I personally have raised the issue with both Aerotech and Estes over the phone.
 
I am going to call it quits with this topic as well, its not really up to the consumer and thats the main group here... sorry if I got any upset I just wanted to explain the rules due to some recent events. If anyone has any questions you can feel free to contact me or any of the companies.
 
Don't despair... I learned something from reading this thread. I wasn't about to ship rockets anyway - I knew that was illegal - but this thread gave me a look at the rules and the nature of the problem in a way I hadn't yet thought about. Thanks for the informative discussion.
 
I meant "don't despair" about this thread. As far as illegal shipping of motors, that's not just a matter of cutting into legal vendors' profits (though I agree that's an issue_) - it's a practice that invites more regulation and oversight, which will surely cost us all.
 
Im not worried about this thread, its purpose was just to make light of the rules... as for the problem itself we can just say I am not a happy camper... I try very hard and stress over the rules everyday while other blow them off like nothing...

Basically I would rather put people and the manufaturers on the spot rather than go crying to the post office and hurt my cause more than help it. I just want a healthy marketplace for rocket motors where cheaters don't steal business from the good vendors.

Now I'm done... hopefully this brings some stuff out in the open... hopefully things start to change from the top down...
 
Back
Top