"Bad Batches?"

CATO · Oct 25, 2005

Those of you who were at CMASS most likely saw my nomad. On both of its flights on c11-0s, the 24mm catod, although it was less evident the second time, as the cato managed to light the upper stage. What I wanted to know is, do catos come packaged together? should I risk flying my 3rd c11 0 from the same pack?

m85476585 · Oct 25, 2005

Contact Estes and they will usually replace the whole pack of motors if one CATOd, even if none of the other motors did. They often give you a new kit too. I don't know about C11-0s because they are discontinued (something about reliably igniting the upper stage).

Reed Goodwin · Oct 25, 2005

Yeah, email Estes. Once you do that, don't risk damaging the rocket: just stick the motor in the ground and fire it. I think that if two of the motors in a pack are bad, chances are the third is bad as well.
Reed

Donaldsrockets · Oct 26, 2005

Originally posted by Reed Goodwin

I think that if two of the motors in a pack are bad, chances are the third is bad as well.

Not necessarily

I once had a pack of old A10-0T's that I used for CHAD staging my old Estes Intruder foam Rediroc.

Two CATO'ed and two worked properly.

On a side note, I think the C11-0's were discontinued due to upper stage ignition unreliability. My first CC Express got trashed due to this. I called Estes and relayed this information, I must have spent about 10 minutes on the phone with them. They gladly replaced my kit and advised me to stick with D12-0's.

CATO · Oct 26, 2005

Originally posted by Donaldsrockets
[B

On a side note, I think the C11-0's were discontinued due to upper stage ignition unreliability. ]

Odd, The cato sent a wad of burning blackpowder up in the air as the booster fell off, igniting the upper stage

I don't have much of a use for them anymore, that was my first 3 stage flight so I did relativly small motors. I will use d12s and d12s only in the future on that rocket

Tedman · Oct 26, 2005

joe i think that you should still tell estes and maby you could even geta hew rocet out ofit because they were discontinued but you were never informed before launching them

MattEx · Oct 27, 2005

I find it unlikely that a "batch" of them would be bad, unless for example their presses were not attaining proper pressure or their blackpowder somehow got contaminated etc.

The most common reason BP motors CATO is due to cracks in the propellant grain, caused by temperature changes and/or dropping them.
So if they have been stored in a aera that undergoes large temp chnages or you dropped the packet from a large height then I wouldn't use them.

shreadvector · Oct 27, 2005

FALSE.

The grain seldom cracks.

Temperature cycling weakens or destroys the mechanical bond between the casing and propellant grain and it can also creat a crack betwent eh nozzle and propellant, but THAT actually lowers the max thrust and chamber pressure. It can, however, allow the flame front to advance to the casing wall sooner, and IF the propellant to casing bond is destroyed, the blow through or casing split will occur sooner than normal. Normal is at the moment of peak thrust as the flame front dome hits the wall.

Originally posted by MattEx
I find it unlikely that a "batch" of them would be bad, unless for example their presses were not attaining proper pressure or their blackpowder somehow got contaminated etc.

The most common reason BP motors CATO is due to cracks in the propellant grain, caused by temperature changes and/or dropping them.
So if they have been stored in a aera that undergoes large temp chnages or you dropped the packet from a large height then I wouldn't use them.

CATO · Oct 27, 2005

Originally posted by tedman
joe i think that you should still tell estes and maby you could even geta hew rocet out ofit because they were discontinued but you were never informed before launching them

Not a in production motor, not an estes rocket...

what can they do

shreadvector · Oct 27, 2005

If an Estes motor fails, they will replace it with an equal or equivalent motor. Ditto for damaged rocket.

C11-0 is a recent, but out of production motor. If any remain in inventory, you will get a pack. If not, you will get a pack of D12-0 motors.

Pick an equivalent sized Estes model.

Originally posted by CATO
Not a in production motor, not an estes rocket...

what can they do

"Bad Batches?"

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