Near grill inferno

First of all, I should point out that I'm typing this with all ten digits and my house is still standing, so it all came out well in the end. Consider this story food for thought if you plan to buy a pre-assembled grill this year. (Or any other year for that matter.)
Somewhere into it's 8th or 9th year of faithful service, my gas grill recently hosted it's last post-game cookout. It had become outdated a long time ago because of it's small size, but financial considerations and plain ol' sentiment kept me from replacing it until yesterday. The final coffin nail was finding a new, far larger model on clearance at a large national hardware store (that will remain nameless.) It was clearance priced at $347, but when I took the tag in to have it rung up, the price dropped to $299. Any doubts I had disappeared right there. It was almost twice the size of my old grill, already assembled, and only slightly more than I had paid for my old one way back in the '90's.
Fast forward to this afternoon. I picked up a full gas cylinder at the grocery and hooked it up as soon as I got home. The grill fired up nicely and I let all four burners go for a while to burn off any accumulated funk that may have gathered since it's assembly. When I went out to put the burgers on a few minutes later, I turned off the two outermost burners because I was only cooking 8 burgers. I was just about to put the first one down and was adjusting the foil when the entire left side of the grill became engulfed in a fireball. I immediately turned off the burners, but that did nothing because the source of the fire was the gas lines which were melting before my eyes. I ran inside for the fire extinguisher, pulled the pin and squeezed, but the metal fell apart in my hands. Next I decided to try water, hoping to knock the flames back enough so that I could reach the shutoff valve. As I stood at the sink waiting for the pan to fill, I turned around and looked out the door. All I could see was flame. I tossed the pan of water on the underside of the grill, which was now completely engulfed. The flames retreated somewhat, enough for me to reach the shutoff valve. Back in the house my daughter had dialed 911, and when I walked back into the kitchen she handed me the phone. I told the guy that a fire run wouldn't be necessary, then sat down and started shaking. I don't know that I've ever been that scared before. The grill is a total loss. All of the lines were vaporized and the whole grill smells of melted plastic/rubber. I called "the hardware store" after dinner (grilled cheese and soup,) and when they asked how they could direct my call, I said "I'm not sure. Who would be in charge of grill disasters?" I got transferred to the manager, whose voice got panicky after hearing the story. He calmed down after hearing that no additional damage was done, and asked me to bring the carcass back tomorrow, promising me the next model up "for my troubles". My brother and I are taking it back tomorrow and I plan to ask for only a replacement of the same size. Anything else would be overkill (and cause the neighbors to wonder what I was overcompensating for.) I do plan to ask for a new fire extinguisher instead of the upgrade. And I think I'll ask for an unassembled one this time.

It all came out well in the end but what an ordeal! Glad to hear that you and yours are all okay. We recently bought one of those newer bigger and supposedly better models to replace our well worn 13 year old grill and it cooks so hot that I'm not too pleased with it. It didn't erupt in a fireball, so I won't complain too much!

I'll just bet that store manager was panic striken when he heard what happened. A friend recently had an experience with that national superstore which undercuts everyone else in that they had put insect repellent on the lowest shelves at the checkout lanes...the ideal level for little hands to reach. Her curious preschooler sprayed himself in the eyes while she was paying at the checkout. Needless to say the store manager was extremely apologetic and someone from the corporate office had contacted them the next day offering to send out a check for up to $1000 to cover medical bills.

He sure sounded like he was cinched up tight until he found out that I contained the damage to the grill. I think the fact that I kept from getting nasty might also have put him at ease. If I had called right after it happened, things would have been different, :kill: but I cool off fairly quickly.

Wow! Glad to hear you're alright.

I never buy anything preassembled if I can help it. Grills, the kid's bikes, furniture, etc.... I don't necessarily trust the kids that they are paying minimum wage to assemble the stuff!

Originally posted by Pippen

I'll just bet that store manager was panic striken when he heard what happened. A friend recently had an experience with that national superstore which undercuts everyone else in that they had put insect repellent on the lowest shelves at the checkout lanes...the ideal level for little hands to reach. Her curious preschooler sprayed himself in the eyes while she was paying at the checkout. Needless to say the store manager was extremely apologetic and someone from the corporate office had contacted them the next day offering to send out a check for up to $1000 to cover medical bills.

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I realize the store was just trying to avoid a lawsuit but how is that the stores fault? There are all kinds of things in a store that can be dangerous to children and they can't all be stored out of reach. I'm sorry but parents, not stores, are responsible for the safety of their children.

Did your grill come with instructions?

My gas grill (Char-Broil brand) clearly has huge warnings in the instructions to do a leak test on all connections and hoses before EACH use. Leak check usign the standard spray bottle of soapy water and looking for bubbles.

I still prefer my giant Weber Kettle which used charcoal. Lighting the charcoal was a snap using a "chimney" starter. Alas, the giant Weber kettle was destroyed several years ago (along with my patio furniture, my fence and most of my trees) by a Microburst (basically, an upside down tornado). At least my roof was OK. The neighbors lost chunks of roof...BIG chunks. The microburst hit several cities over a 20 to 30 mile stretch. I hear that tornadoes can also skip along and touch down hear and there. At least insurance covered the damage and clean-up.

I used the Weber almost every week. I use the gas grill once or twice a year now. It's not as tasty or fun. Sorry Hank Hill...

Wow, that's a heck ofa story! Now I'm happy I put my own grill together, although it was a royal PITA!

Glenn

I had a similar experience, but it did not have to do with pre-assembly. My grill was several years old and I had assembled it myself. I was trying to burn off the remnants in a tank to safely transport it. I had the grill and the stove burner on the side set to HI. After about 1/2 hour, the gas line leading to the external burner melted thru ( I guess it was not shielded enough) and started to be a little wiggling blowtorch. It singed my deck, but I was able to secure the main shut-off before it got too bad.

Good to hear you are okay! I had one incident that was a little scary. I was working on my VW bug replacing the fuel pump and was draining the fuel into gas cans. Somehow it sparked and I had a 2 gallon gas can on fire. In my rush to go get some sand to douse it I hit the can with my foot knocking it over and making a lake of fire. It engulfed a bush in our driveway and took about 15 lbs of sand to get it out. Quite scary.

The other story is of halloween luminaries. We had little plastic pumpkin baskets hanging from our gutter with candles in them. As the night went on they burned through the plastic straps that held them and dropped into an evergreen bush (the dry kind). My dad came inside yelling "The bush is on fire!!!" I casually walked outside (he is a jokester) and was confronted with 15 foot tall flames. He grabbed the hose and I grabbed a fire extinguisher (procured as a direct result of the VW fire) and we had it under control. Whew!

Needless to say after that all evergreen bushes were uprooted and replaced with xeriscape.



Edward

Originally posted by OARJeepr
I realize the store was just trying to avoid a lawsuit but how is that the stores fault? There are all kinds of things in a store that can be dangerous to children and they can't all be stored out of reach. I'm sorry but parents, not stores, are responsible for the safety of their children.

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I agree that it is a parent's responsibility but most stores do try to take precautions at areas like checkouts so that at least potentially harmful items are at least packaged somehow and/or higher up on the shelves. We have two of those same stores in town and both seem to be cautious about this potential problem.

The mother was shocked at how eager they were to send her a check.

We were at one of those stores recently and my son received a mild shock from one of the lamps that was on display. I hauled it to a clerk and he looked more put out than anything.

its the stores responsibility to make sure that every facet of the store is safe, as long as the *posted* precautions(if any) are in clear view, and are followed by the customers. holding a 3 year old liable for their own actions is rediculous, holding the parents responsible is a good idea to a certain extent. but when you've got 3 kids and only one will fit in the cart...its not as easy as it seems. parenting (though im not a parent) is no picknick. i've got 4 younger siblings and i help my mom do daycare from time to time...its not easy to control kids, and just because you think a parent should have a choke hold on all of their kids actions, its really hard to do. blaming the parents for everything sounds great in print, but put yourself into the shoes of that parent.

as for the grill, 3 years back i started up our TEC grill, only, i forgot to start it. lol. sounds funny huh? i went outside on my back porch and turned all 4 burners on high...i then remembered that i had no matches, because the sparker wasnt working. so i ran inside, got into a discussion with my mom about rice on the stove and the steak i was going to cook, probably about 1 1/2 minutes past before i came back out. now, i couldnt smell a hint of propane because i've got ceramic burners, so it kindof traps the propane at the bottom of the grill. anyway, i threw the match in and KABOOM!!!! no more eyebrows. i was significantly pushed by the blast close to 5 feet. however i was still standing. both burners kicked in their safety feature thingy and started flaring low. but the grill was fine in the end. not bad considering i took half a tank of propane to the face. lol.

r1dermon--
the only person responsible for that child's actions was her parents. Sorry, the real world is not safe. No store can be 100 percent safe. That child had to pick up the bug spray, point it at her face and press the button. I would never have blamed the store in the same situation. In truth I don't know that these parents did but the store was obviously worried about legal action.

Children that young shouldn't be left alone at all in a store. I realize everyone makes mistakes and parents can't watch 100% of the time and I'm not saying that these were bad parents. Accidents do happen. It's part of the contract when you have kids. That still doesn't mean the store was at fault. Bottom line-the only people responsible for your kids is you.

This thread may need to split in two, flatworm style. But here goes my attempt to comment on both topics of discussion.

I've had a little charbroil electric grill that has been with me for the last 7 years, and has been a wonderful little tool. Every January I have a "Winter Roast" where I fire the thing up and grill to my heart's content - steaks, burgers, hot dogs and sausages, and even chicken and fish. Most of it goes into the fridge/freezer for later consumption. Downsides: Slow warm-up time compared to gas, and it's limited in where I can take it (gotta have a power source nearby). Upsides: Fast warm-up compared to charcoal, unaffected by weather (used it in 18 inches of snow in Rhode Island once).

Now on to the store safety topic. I think there should be a reasonable middle ground here somewhere. The store has a responsibility to provide a reasonably safe environment. Generally speaking, that means putting sharp/dangerous objects behind protective barriers, posting warning signs, and keeping things clean/neat so people don't trip and fall. The parent has the responsibility to keep an eye on his/her children and monitor what they are getting into. I've seen plenty of parents in the supermarket who don't pay attention to their kids until the kid has reached up to the shelves, pulled down a box of cereal, pried it open, ripped open the bag inside, and spilled the contents on the floor. The parent gets angry at the kid, and doesn't do a thing to clean it up. It's not the store's fault that the box was on display, it's the parent's fault that he/she didn't monitor the child's behavior.
Again, there's a reasonable expectation of responsibility here, and if each side assumes its own share, the vast majority of problems can be avoided.

WW

exactly...its both parties responsibility to ensure the safety of young children. the owner of the store which serves as the environment for such an action to take place, and the parents of the children in question. sorry, but displaying toxic chemicals at the bottom of a shelf open and ready to spray is not a smart thing to do. you can ask or demand that a parent keep an eye on their children, however, if you think that they can watch that child 100% of the time, then thats a mistake on your part. however, if you can put a child in an environment which does not lend itself to such incidents, then such incidents are not going to happen. which means no chemical burns on the children, and no law suits against the store. its a win win for everyone involved to take a pro-active precautionary role to try and make dangerous items inaccessible to children. would you put matches on your coffee table with you child right next to them? how about a sharp knife? how about a can of raid?

back to the grill. my friend just bought a new kenmore grill, had to be assembled, which wasnt too fun, but in the end, i can trust it, you know? im actually at his house more than im at my own house. heh. i know every part that went into it. i got the chance to double check the hoses and all the internal pieces. i feel quite confident with the workmanship on that grill. and it makes a mean burger. hehehe.

Can you clarify the type of grill?Also the store name?I used to be an assembly tech for two different assembly companies and have put together thousands of grills for such stores as Lowes,Wal-Mart and Home Depot as well as others.When it comes to most grills all of the vital gas lines and stuff are already assembled.In fact an assembly tech would have to also be "gas certified" by federal law in order to mess with anything having to do with gas lines or valves.This usually doesn't include the burners.In fact they aren't even allowed by law to hook the tank up for you.
This,of course,doesn't take into account any damage that may have occured during assembly or perhaps....transport?(hint!)
Not to say that it couldn't have been the fault of the assembly tech.Some assembly companies are much more reputable than others.The first co. I worked for was the best in the biz and I had the honor of being one of the top ten in the country.The second company I worked for wasn't quite as reputable as the first but still not too bad.
Plus all of this is assuming that the store even used an outside tech and not one of their dumb kids that didn't have anything better to do.I have come along behind dozens of these and had to fix all kinds of screw ups.The stories I could tell!
Well anyways I'm glad yer o.k. and do yourself a favor and go with the size up.Never,ever worry about what your neighbors think.Nor anyone else for that matter.You weren't put here to entertain them where you?Better yet go with charcoal because personally I wouldn't have a gas grill.

Sad to say that nothing is made here any more & the quality falls far from the tree.
Everyone wants it quick & cheap leaving just a shell of what things use to be.....




JD

Weber grills are made here in America.All things being equal(price,etc....)they are some of the best.There was actually a segment of the show "Made In America" about them.The next best in the lower price range would be the Aussie.Made in Austria and a very nice unit.These don't count the mega hi-dollar 2-8 thousand dollar units that they sell at Expo Design.
Now having said all of that you're right,though.Most stuff in Lowes and Home Depot(not Expo)is made in China and it's very cheaply made.Lawn furniture is the worst.Nothing on Earth quite as wiz poor quality as chinese lawn furniture.Not just poor quality "metal" but very poorly designed and cast.
This doesn't include the indoor furniture which is all made here in America.Some is better quality than others but generally it's pretty good.

Again I have to say you can not child proof a store. Most big stores, especially discounters, are basically warehouses that we get to shop in. They are not intrinsically safe places. If the chemicals are stored higher and the kid is in a cart would you say the store should have stored them lower? If the kid pulls a display over on himself is that the store's fault?

Originally posted by OARJeepr
If the kid pulls a display over on himself is that the store's fault?

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This is why stores(mostly)bolt there stuff down now.I have actually stopped a kid from pulling an entire home entertainment center over on top of herself once.Mom had her back turned and was totally oblivious to the kid swinging on the door.Once I even had a corner cupboard that I had just finished turn over on me while I was kneeling in front of it.The door swung open just a bit and it was just enough to throw it off balance and down it came.I caught it out of the corner of my eye and threw my forearm up just in time to block it.It did fracture my forearm and slammed me pretty hard but I was very lucky.
Anyhow,I don't believe the stores should be blamed either.You'd be amazed at how many parents just let their kids run amuck.More than once I have had kids in stores mess up my work only to have the folks use the excuse "they're only kids".Needless to say these parents usually went balistic when the store made them pay.

Glad to here Bill and his family are OK

Originally posted by cmmeyers
Wow! Glad to hear you're alright.

I never buy anything preassembled if I can help it. Grills, the kid's bikes, furniture, etc.... I don't necessarily trust the kids that they are paying minimum wage to assemble the stuff!

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As a former salesman I have tried in vain a number of times to explain there is a reason the economy model is dirt cheap - there were short cuts taken somewere. The "doorbuster" is never a good value.

Originally posted by cmmeyers
Wow! Glad to hear you're alright.

I never buy anything preassembled if I can help it. Grills, the kid's bikes, furniture, etc.... I don't necessarily trust the kids that they are paying minimum wage to assemble the stuff!

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Almost missed this one.Not being nit picky but most assembly techs are between 30-50 years old,love their jobs and bring home something in the area of $800-$1500 a week.My bring home averaged around a thousand a week.

Where is this ,
I'd like to have that job!
Most assembly services are sorced out & I'm sure they make less than that ...

Some assembly techs are paid by the # of units they assemble.



JD

Originally posted by dragonshiprider
Almost missed this one.Not being nit picky but most assembly techs are between 30-50 years old,love their jobs and bring home something in the area of $800-$1500 a week.My bring home averaged around a thousand a week.

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Originally posted by dragonshiprider
Almost missed this one.Not being nit picky but most assembly techs are between 30-50 years old,love their jobs and bring home something in the area of $800-$1500 a week.My bring home averaged around a thousand a week.

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Oh My God - seriously, are you hiring? I will move to VA for that kind of money! I am a manufacturing process tech(3 steps above assembly here) at one of the highest paying companys in central PA and don't make nearly that much.

I took the grill back tonight and the manager that told me to ask specifically for him wasn't even there. My brother and I walked all over the store looking at every grill with the "seasonal" department guy, but nothing they had compared to the grill that blew up. I wound up just getting a refund and I'm going to try to find one like the Fireball 5300 I just took back. It had everything I wanted, size, sturdy construction, durable internals and four burners. Even the $799 top of the line model they had, paled next to my scorched return.
I had a hell of a night last night. The incident kept replaying itself in my mind and on several occasions I wasn't fast enough and got blown through the wall of the house. Something like this wouldn't have bothered me a lot 20 years ago, but I've noticed that as I get older, these things have a much longer shelf life in my mind. 22 definitely has that going over 42.

Originally posted by JDcluster
Where is this ,
I'd like to have that job!
Most assembly services are sorced out & I'm sure they make less than that ...

Some assembly techs are paid by the # of units they assemble.
JD

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When I was with my first company I was paid on commish only.My second company paid me both good hourly and commish.For the most part that kind of dough means some long hours but the more you work the more you make.The work was always there for the most part.Sometimes you might just have to drive a bit to find it.Plus,there could be some down periods.
For instance when the summer grills and lawn equipment would run out then there would be a bit of a slump then the bikes and furniture would hit as Christmas got closer.The bikes are sorta self explanitory but the deal with the furniture is less obvious.It seems that people do a lot of visiting and accepting visitors around Christmas.Everyone wants brand new furniture to show off in front of those relatives that they haven't seen in years.Needless to say we took a hit on that stuff Christmas 2001.Very little travel and long distance visiting that year. Most people don't like to do furniture but I really liked it.Kinda relaxing.As for the bikes let me tell you after about 4-5 thousand of them in a row it starts to do really weird stuff to a fella.One year I put together about 8 thousand or so for Woodbridge Lowes.They rented the old Silk Greenhouse building for Christmas stock where the new Lowes is now on Smoketown Rd.They where there well before Thanksgiving and never seemed to end.I actually spent three whole days living in that warehouse at one point.Think about that the next time you start griping about putting a bike together on the night before Christmas.Needless to say I hate bikes!
Now for the bad.The world of the assembly tech is a cut throat one with industrial espionage unlike anything I've ever seen.People coming into your stores and trying to threaten you into leaving.Other companies sending people around to try and get a peek at your price book when you turn your back( caught two from another company doing this one day).Other companies trying to pay off store employees to try to finesse info out of you regarding who your other customers are.Competitors trying to bribe you from info such as store contacts and your boss' cell phone password and number so that they could find out where the goods are the next day and get there early.One of the big perks there.I rarely ever saw my boss'.Instead we just called in several times a day to report and to find out where to go.Also,my boss' where very understanding being as how they had been through it all before,too.Anyhow,I've seen every one of the nasty tricks.
Well anyways I left my first company because they lost the contract with Lowes.For the most part that was the meat of my paycheck for over half the year.I went to work for the company that won it.What my first company didn't say is that they had landed another contract with Dick's Sporting Goods and that they where gonna be building a buttload of them in the Northern Va. area including the new one in Manassas.As much of a hardware type that I am I could have really dug working for them especially since the second company has now filed for bankrupcy.That would be Huffy BTW or Huffy Service First to be exact.
Long story short I wound up leaving the assembly business because I just got tired of the crappy politics and the backstabbing going on amongst people higher up than me.You all know which way crap flows don't you?I don't do crap! So as an end thought if you're wanting to be a tech do yourself a favor and don't.Sure the money is good but it takes a bit to get up to speed,there's lots of travel time(sometimes),and you will often put up with a lot of long hours and bull plop up to your neck from store personel and customers.There are many other things that can be done for the same money.Especially in Northern Va.The only reason I stuck with it for so long is because it was different,I had no real boss breathing down my neck and most of all I loved putting things together.The last one is probably the most important of all.

Originally posted by dragonshiprider
Sure the money is good but it takes a bit to get up to speed,there's lots of travel time(sometimes),and you will often put up with a lot of long hours and bull plop up to your neck from store personel and customers.There are many other things that can be done for the same money.Especially in Northern Va.The only reason I stuck with it for so long is because it was different,I had no real boss breathing down my neck and most of all I loved putting things together.The last one is probably the most important of all.

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Guess this proves, once again, that there's a reason some jobs pay more than others: they're harder to do, and they're harder to sustain!

WW

if you want a really good grill, stay away from the webers, the kenmores and the generic pieces of crapola. charcoal is a great grill for smoking something or getting a ton of that charcoal flavor into whatever you're cooking. but i find that they take way too long to cook. if you want a REALLY nice grill, you have to check out TEC. they use the infrared ceramic burners and can reach temps twice that of a charcoal grill. i believe the two burners in my grill are 30,000 BTU each, so they're actually pretty efficient per degree. steak tips should come out nice and blackened on the outside and yet, rare, medium rare, whatever you like, on the inside. you can't achieve that on a weber and DEFINATELY not on a charcoal grill. turn the TEC up to high and let it heat up all the way, then plop those tips on, give them about 2-4 minutes a side, dont touch them while they're cooking on that particular side. once you flip it over, you'll see why im quite partial to TEC. after 10 minutes your steak tips are done. i've had burgers on a charcoal hibachi for a half hour at a time. and you taste more soot than burger.

Originally posted by r1dermon
if you want a really good grill, stay away from the webers, the kenmores and the generic pieces of crapola. charcoal is a great grill for smoking something or getting a ton of that charcoal flavor into whatever you're cooking. but i find that they take way too long to cook. if you want a REALLY nice grill, you have to check out TEC. they use the infrared ceramic burners and can reach temps twice that of a charcoal grill. i believe the two burners in my grill are 30,000 BTU each, so they're actually pretty efficient per degree. steak tips should come out nice and blackened on the outside and yet, rare, medium rare, whatever you like, on the inside. you can't achieve that on a weber and DEFINATELY not on a charcoal grill. turn the TEC up to high and let it heat up all the way, then plop those tips on, give them about 2-4 minutes a side, dont touch them while they're cooking on that particular side. once you flip it over, you'll see why im quite partial to TEC. after 10 minutes your steak tips are done. i've had burgers on a charcoal hibachi for a half hour at a time. and you taste more soot than burger.

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The longer something takes to cook the better.If you've "blackened" something then you've pretty much ruined it IMHO.

too bad you're not near me...i'd show you how steak is SUPPOSED to taste like. hehehe. you've never had blackened swordfish? in the black is all the flavor. but its not the flavor of soot, its the flavor of the fat of the meat you're cooking. try it sometime. initially you want to get the outside crispy, and THEN cook to your desired core temp.

I prefer charcol, but have to agree that the longer you cook it the better. My uncle recently retired from the head of the Animan Sciences Department at University of Georgia at Athens and was on the National Beef Council and others. I had the privilege of going to steak tasting dinners with him over many grades of beef and cuts. I never had one served black, all were slow cooked over charcoal with a tiny slice of pink in the middle. Some of the best steaks I had. (Don't get me riled up by adding A1 or Heinz 57 or something else to a steak)

Edward