LDRS 29, June 2010

[davalf]

Who's coming and what are you bringing?

[cjl]

I might be, and if I do, I'll bring my L3 rocket and possibly my 4" AMRAAM.

[kelltym88]

I am going to try. My oldest son is getting married 2 weeks before, so I'm going to have to really try and save well.

I would like to bring a 4" upscale Photon Disruptor that I haven't even started to work on yet. And fix my Bomber so I can a successful flight and recovery.

[Der Red Max]

Who's coming and what are you bringing?

I am - beer and nachos!

[stickershock23]

I am - beer and nachos!

Beer and Nacho's ? I'm in... LOL

I am hoping to have 2 major projects ready. Not to HUGE but both fun.

My 6.0" Aries SST and a 12" diam Mercury little joe.

I am going to try. My oldest son is getting married 2 weeks before, so I'm going to have to really try and save well.

I would like to bring a 4" upscale Photon Disruptor that I haven't even started to work on yet. And fix my Bomber so I can a successful flight and recovery.

Tell your Son congratulations.... And what was wrong with the last flight? anything you can walk away from is a good landing?!

Actually I think you need to have those wing pods eject off the rocket and it will recover fine!

[kelltym88]

Beer and Nacho's ? I'm in... LOL

I am hoping to have 2 major projects ready. Not to HUGE but both fun.

My 6.0" Aries SST and a 12" diam Mercury little joe.



Tell your Son congratulations.... And what was wrong with the last flight? anything you can walk away from is a good landing?!

Actually I think you need to have those wing pods eject off the rocket and it will recover fine!

That's exactly what I plan to do, I just need to figure out how to do it.

[kelltym88]

Oh yea, and beer.

[cjl]

Well, I just looked it up, and I'm definitely able to come.

Now to figure out what motors I want to fly...

[kelltym88]

Well I am trying to get the Disruptor done. Here is my progress so far:

[kelltym88]

See if you can guess what this is. Also a 4x upscale, but only a 3" tube...(Mark, you can't guess, sorry)...

[stickershock23]

See if you can guess what this is. Also a 4x upscale, but only a 3" tube...(Mark, you can't guess, sorry)...

Oh Oh I know I know LOL (you gonna send me the fin pattern so I can scale those decals?)

The disruptor is looking SWEET!

[kelltym88]

Sure, I need your address.... just send it to me via pm.

[kramer714]

so far planned for LDRS...

An all graphite 6" diameter 136 inch long rocket, Hypertek M, 41 lb loaded wt, sims to mach 1.05 (never happen) and 16,250 altitude (build thread under High Power - Son of a Monster) 60% percent complete

All fiberglass 2.1 inch diameter, 229 inch long (230 just sounded a little much..), Skyripper K247, 12 lb loaded weight sims to just below 7,000 feet. This one is a little unique in that it is a continuous taper from 2.1 inches down to 1 inch over 175 inches. 70% complete

Monster Snitches http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IVIddW5C8ag I plan to launch, plus I am bringing up a few as kits to sell, J350 works great with these, might have to try a long burn!

The Football rocket has been requested... might bring that one up too

[calpoly93]

4" PML AMRAAM modified for DD
Custom Nike-X
PML Ariel
PML Callisto
Various Estes rockets

I've never been to one of these "national" events, is the pad layout going to be big enough? It looks like the standard layout?

[kelltym88]

Check the ROC website for past events, it's plenty big enough...

[RocketRick]

I've never been to one of these "national" events, is the pad layout going to be big enough? It looks like the standard layout?

The layout is very similar to our usual "ROCstock" layout. That's not surprising, since the attendance at most ROCstocks is comparable to the attendance at most national events....

We've shifted everything further north of the dirt access road, to make room for more parking/camping areas. Also, we've pushed our usual "front row" back, to allow it to be used for H & I flights, and have added an additional "low power" row in front of it to handle all of the model rocket flights. Also, we've added additional pads at 800', to avoid slowing down operations for "M" flights.

For LDRS 29, we'll also be positioning several "away" pads even further out, to accommodate N, O, and P motors.

So, think of the range layout as "ROCstock on steroids".

[cjl]

For LDRS 29, we'll also be positioning several "away" pads even further out, to accommodate N, O, and P motors.

Does this mean that the normal CA limitation of M motors is not in effect for LDRS?

[kelltym88]

Yep! hehehe

[RocketRick]

Does this mean that the normal CA limitation of M motors is not in effect for LDRS?

http://ldrs29.org/content/commercial...ounced-ldrs-29

http://ldrs29.org/content/planning-fly-p-ldrs-29

I'm not sure why I bother posting updates to the LDRS 29 web site....

Cheers!

[kelltym88]

http://ldrs29.org/content/commercial...ounced-ldrs-29

http://ldrs29.org/content/planning-fly-p-ldrs-29

I'm not sure why I bother posting updates to the LDRS 29 web site....

Cheers!

Well, Mr. Crayon, it's because of your updates I was able to answer in the affirmative, so Thank You!!

[RocketRick]

Well, Mr. Crayon, it's because of your updates I was able to answer in the affirmative, so Thank You!!

You're welcome!

[troj]

I've never been to one of these "national" events, is the pad layout going to be big enough? It looks like the standard layout?

Having been to an LDRS hosted by ROC before, I'm confident that their range will handle the volume of fliers quite well.

Of course, part of the challenge, too, is the folks working as LCOs knowing how to keep things moving. That's not been an issue at any LDRS I've been at -- typically the folks more experienced with high volume flying are the ones running things on Saturday.

ROC will have it running smoothly.

-Kevin

[Fuddrucker]

I'm not sure why I bother posting updates to the LDRS 29 web site....

Cheers!

Hmmm,,, There is a LDRS 29 Website Could you post a link for me?

Thanks!








......Just kidding Rick!

...Fudd

[gizza2]

Hi, Rick.

Would you consider moving the low power pads (A-D motors) off to the side with a separate LCO to improve HPR efficiency? We do that at Plaster Blaster in San Diego and the HPR launch rate increases dramatically.

I'm not an HPR elitist and fully encourage engagement in all levels of the hobby but when batteries are draining in the heat and every low power flight is announced it's pretty stress-inducing for HPR.

Thanks for your consideration.

[RocketRick]

Hi, Rick.

Would you consider moving the low power pads (A-D motors) off to the side with a separate LCO to improve HPR efficiency? We do that at Plaster Blaster in San Diego and the HPR launch rate increases dramatically.

I'm not an HPR elitist and fully encourage engagement in all levels of the hobby but when batteries are draining in the heat and every low power flight is announced it's pretty stress-inducing for HPR.

Thanks for your consideration.

Greg,

We (sort of) did that before (at LDRS 20, in fact), and it significantly slowed things down for us, rather than speeding them up.

For range safety reasons, we still needed to have a single LCO in charge of launching. It's necessary to have a single point of control for things like access to the range, to avoid people wandering into a live area to recover rockets, and to ensure that the person on the microphone is aware of everything that flies, in order to be able to alert the crowd to safety hazards such as rockets with recovery failures.

Breaking the range into two pieces simply doubled the number of volunteers needed, which in turn ensured that we had less-experienced people taking over critical jobs out of sheer necessity. This slowed things down unnecessarily.

We have changed one big thing in our operations since then, and that single change sped everything up significantly: We now wait to assign pads until rocket are actually being loaded on them.

That way, we avoid HUGE amounts of confusion and time-wasting from assigning pads, and having people walk away, load their rockets on the wrong pads, or having to re-assign due to a rocket with a misfire still sitting on the pad.

The way it works now:

Pads are arranged in three "sides" (left, center, and right), with plenty of space between them to load on one while launching the others. Banks of pads are located at the very front (for low power flights), and in the front, middle, and back rows (for high power flights). Again, they are spaced out so that loading and launching can go on simultaneously.

The LCO is in charge of "running the range", and controlling which areas are open or closed to access by flyers. Normally, the LCO works front to back on each side, and from left to right across the range.

For example: Once he finishes launching the entire left side, the LCO will move on to the center "side", and open the left side up for loading. The Pad Manager (PM) will look at the banks of pads on the left side, note which rods and rails are open (for instance, there might be a rocket with a misfired igniter sitting on a particular pad), and will send out the next people in line who have launch lugs or rail guides matching the pads that are available. The PM will note on each flight card the pad number that the rocket is loaded on, and then place the cards into the corresponding numbered slots in our boards.

That way, we never have to wait for people to get their acts together, or get confused over which rockets are where. With a couple of spotters helping the LCO keep an eye on rockets in flight, and taking over the job of noting flight results on the flight cards, it's possible for us to fairly easily maintain flight rates of up to around 10 or 12 rockets per minute at our busiest times, without compromising safety.

On Saturday morning in particular, you'll definitely see us "rock and roll" through the busiest hours, and I seriously doubt that you will see any rockets sitting on pads, ready to launch for more than 5 or 10 minutes at the very most. The determining factor will be how quickly the people loading their rockets can do so; it's not uncommon for us to have an LCO "lap" the range, catching up to the people still loading their rockets on one side while we've finished launching the other two.

On an tangentially-related note: You have got to be kidding me about battery life!

A fresh alkaline battery will last for DAYS powering the typical rocket electronics. Energizer has their data sheets online, and the data sheet for their standard alkaline 9V battery shows it having about 600 milliamp-hours of capacity at low discharge rates. Even cutting that number in half to 300 mAh means that you'd get 30 hours of life with a 10 mA current draw. Most rocketry electronics draw less than 10 mA when they're not in the process of firing ejection charges.

Sitting on a pad for incredibly-long times like a half hour or so (read: not gonna happen at LDRS 29) will not even make the slightest DENT in your battery capacity.

[gizza2]

Thanks for your thorough reply, Rick. I look forward to this event and applaud your arrangement of N-P motor flights in CA. I hope those in charge in the CA government elect to remove these arbitrary power limits in our state. Cheers!

[terryg]

Mass launch special

http://www.squatldrs.com/index.htm

[cjl]

I just got off the phone with my motor vendor - I'll be flying (assuming everything goes well) my L3 rocket on an M4770 Vmax, and my AMRAAM on an M1300 Imax Dual Thrust. My L3 should reach 12-13k (very quickly), and my AMRAAM should be good for 17k or so. It should be a lot of fun

[kramer714]

You might think about a rocket hunter or tracker for the AMRAAM.

some one at ROC might have one you can borrow but I would ask WAAAY ahead of time for LDRS.

[cjl]

You might think about a rocket hunter or tracker for the AMRAAM.

some one at ROC might have one you can borrow but I would ask WAAAY ahead of time for LDRS.

I have a GPS system that I use for both (Garmin Astro 220/DC30). Our local club has a 20k AGL waiver, with windows to 35k, so a lot of people are well versed in the art of finding rockets. I've flown the AMRAAM on that motor before, and it definitely gets out of sight.