Wadding

I have searched for wadding ideas, but I have not found what I am looking for at present time, so here is the question:

Is there something that you can use other than the Estes Wadding for rockets using A, B, C, or D motors?

Cellulose insulation. Availble at most home improvement stores. Ask for blown insulation. A bale will last a life time, and only costs between 5 and 10 dollars.

I bought a bale of "dog barf" (cellulose insulation) at Home Depot just yesterday.

I saw a ripped bag and they gave it to me at 25% off so with tax, it came to a whopping $5.48.

Wow, there sure is a lot in a bale.

Now I know why everyone says that you only need to buy one bale per lifetime

For permanent wadding you can use a body tube wide pom-pom of Teflon Pipe Thread Sealant tape tied to the shock cord.

This was mentioned and discussed in the following threads (and many others if you search for them):

https://www.rocketryforum.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=7739&highlight=Teflon+tape+wadding

https://www.rocketryforum.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=4393&highlight=Teflon+tape+wadding

Bruce S. Levison, NAR #69055, A.K.A. Teflonrocketry1

Some guys at my rocket club use party streamers. They are some type of crepe paper and make sure it says on the package that it is flameproof treated.

Although we haven't released them yet, FlisKits will be coming out with a line of baffle kits that serve the purpose of not needing wadding in your kit.

You can read more about them here.

jim

You can also use Nomex or Kevlar fabric sheets as permanent wadding. Many people sell it, but I prefer buying it from Quickburst.net because of their fast shipping.

My 2 cents.
I prefer good old dog barf as mentioned above for all but the largest of my low power rockets.
Pom poms work ok but care must be taken when packing because they can and will foul your shock cord and/or shroud lines. I suppose the same can be said of Nomex and Kevlar pads.
Baffles are ok with 2 drawbacks
1. the baffle has to be a certain distance from the motor to prevent overpressurization of the airframe. (not good for small or short rockets)
2. after installing a baffle it will change your center of gravity so you will have to make sure the rocket is still stable.
At a recent launch I saw fiberglass pads being used with no problems.
PS: the Dog Barf is not only flame retardent but also biodegradable

Dog barf secured into a sandwich bag and packed loosly makes great packing material for packages.

I still haven't made a dent in my bale and I think I used four or five baggies full for each of my LJ II kits.

Originally posted by missileman
Baffles are ok with 2 drawbacks
1. the baffle has to be a certain distance from the motor to prevent overpressurization of the airframe. (not good for small or short rockets)
2. after installing a baffle it will change your center of gravity so you will have to make sure the rocket is still stable.

Click to expand...

Wouldn't these two factors conspire to almost always pull your CG forward instead of backward, making your rocket more stable?


Bill

I know crepe paper makes good streamers but is it biodegradable enough for wadding use?

I think so, yes. Also, according to somewhat at my club, seeing as it has to meet regs, it's all fireproof. It probably says on the package biodegradable or not.

some good chopped up lettuce.

I've read cabbage leaves works very well .

Originally posted by Bill
Wouldn't these two factors conspire to almost always pull your CG forward instead of backward, making your rocket more stable?


Bill

Click to expand...

Depends on rocket design,
Some designs, especially with forward fins , have CP locations farther forward. ie..Sidewinder for example.
Edit: To add a bit more.
Actual case in point. Take 2 rockets that I built with baffles and the effect on each.
Cosmodrome Vostok- the baffle was behind the ideal center of gravity and actually made the rocket less stable.
Ven & Jen Nike Ajax- baffle is in the transition which is well forward of the CP and made the rocket more stable.
I pointed out the stability issue with the new rocketeer in mind, who may be used to building a kit and flying it.
Any mods to a kit must have stability taken into mind.

Fiberglass insulation had a brief vogue in the 70s as wadding, but we've gotten a bit smarter since then, since it isn't biodegradable and is dangerous and possibly fatal for animals if they eat it, (not to mention expensive) I think that idea has pretty much gone the way of the dodo.

I've seen steel wool used as wadding, and that's a real bad idea, since steel wool not only is not flameproof, in fact, it burns at a very high temperature.

I think your best idea is dog barf, crepe paper works ok too, although you have to make sure to hand-crumple the crepe paper to make it soft enough to form a good seal for the ejection gases in the body tube. I also use about a 4" length of crepe paper as a shroud wrapped around the chute itself, to catch any bits of hot ejecta that gets through.

I stopped at Home Depot today and bought a bale of the only type of cellulose insulation they had on the shelf. Once home, I read some of the packaging info and discovered this stuff is not for use in temperatures above 180F! Is there another blown-in insulation material with a flame retardent coating or is this the right stuff known as 'dog barf' in previous posts? I checked at the next door Lowe's and they only carry the same stuff which is flammable above 180F. I haven't opened the bale, so I can return it if I've made a mistake.

Joseph
NAR 81715/L1

That sounds like the right stuff. I think that wadding is an exception since there is only a momentary exposure to the flame/hot gases and particles so there is less chance of the stuff burning.
Reed

Originally posted by stymye
I've read cabbage leaves works very well .

Click to expand...

Not always. ukrocketman knows what I'm talking about...

You have the right stuff. It won't burn at least not until its exposed to extremely hot temperatures for a long time. It may be that the insulation doesn't work to well at temps above 180. I don't really know but the short term exposure to hot gasses from a rocket ejection charge isn't enough to ignite it.

Common brand is Cocoon cellulose insulation.
https://www.greenstone.com/

It is just as flame resistant as Estes wadding or crepe paper. If you hold it over a flame, it will attempt to burn, but as soon as the flame is removed, it goes out.

That is why is is labelled as you read. It is not for use insulating a kiln or blast furnace. It is fine for a house attic. It will not burn by itself or propagate a house fire, but if the structure of the house starts burning the insulation may slow the fire, but not stop it.

What you don't want it the stuff used in the nightclub in where the Great White fire occurred. A flammable foam producing toxic gas as it burns.

Cocoon is not sold in every store (as I've said in 5 previous threads on this exact same subject.)

In Los angeles, no Home Depots sell it. Period. Lowes entered this market a few years ago and only *some* of their stores in this market sell it. Call around. Use the brand name or the actual name of the product (cellulose insulation for 'blowing into attics or walls'). If you ask for "dog barf" they will react as if you said Bob-a-booie.

Crepe paper works, and it is bio-degradable, but it will take longer to break down. Bad choice for public parks but it's fine in the desert as long as you pick up the wadding (and you can reuse it until it is dust).

Originally posted by jdlawren
I stopped at Home Depot today and bought a bale of the only type of cellulose insulation they had on the shelf. Once home, I read some of the packaging info and discovered this stuff is not for use in temperatures above 180F! Is there another blown-in insulation material with a flame retardent coating or is this the right stuff known as 'dog barf' in previous posts? I checked at the next door Lowe's and they only carry the same stuff which is flammable above 180F. I haven't opened the bale, so I can return it if I've made a mistake.

Joseph
NAR 81715/L1

Click to expand...

I use paper table napkins or what you call it over there.
Some of them are quite flame proof.
Buy a pakcage and you have enough for lot of flights

Knut

I use toilet paper. But first I squirt it with a flame-proofing spray from a fabric shop! I'd advise doing the same to paper napkins...

As an experiment, I put a match to some of the treated toilet paper. It did what it was supposed to - charred a bit but didn't catch light. Do the same thing to one of your paper napkins, and if it does catch fire, don't put the rest in any rockets!