Question about NAR membership.

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The card arrived in the mail last week, and this is my first official post as:

NAR #89968 :happydeer: (Jim Bartell)

Far out; I'm 89962. :)

My reasons were much like yours, though I have to admit that when I saw the announcement about the membership drive, I thought, "oh man, if I had waited a month, I could have gotten two free kits and a hat!" :D
 
The card arrived in the mail last week, and this is my first official post as:

NAR #89968 :happydeer: (Jim Bartell)

Almost 90000 people through this organization on 50 years - you guys are making me feel old:y:

Dale Greene NAR 12464
 
I'm an avid NAR supporter, for a variety of reasons - legal representation, insurance coverage, and Sport Rocketry. I've personally enjoyed attending both the National Sport Launch and NARCONs.

However, in being an objective observer, I do see a hole with NAR membership that'd be difficult to bridge. The AMA recently went through a similar delimna and had to readapt their philosophy - towards Park Flyers, as they were loosing members at a similar rate.

The average, entry-level, model rocketry enthusiast has little need for a NAR membership. Here me out . . .

Many of the entry-level, Estes-type, models are bought through your local vendors (Wal-mart, Michaels, Hobby-Lobby, etc.) by spur of the moment purchases. In fact, I recall one of our cottage industry suppliers stating that if it wasn't for Estes they would not have people coming to them. Few first-time purchasers buy anything but Estes. It's simply truth.

In addition, most people who buy an Estes kit do not read the small enclosed NAR materials. And then, in talking to these folks, if they do read it, they question whether there's any value in paying $65 a year to join an organization. They can simply pay a small amount of money for a starter kit, go find a field and launch. End of story. In their minds, not mine, why would they want to pay out $65 more?

Those of us who visit such message boards, may feel different, but that's truthfully the minority and we're already 'hooked' on the hobby. AMA saw the same thing happen with them, so they announced Park Flyer memberships hoping to capture that gap.

Is the NAR worth it to me? Yes. Would it be, if all I did was pick up a kit from Wal-mart and go fly a few models - frankly, no.
 
I'm an avid NAR supporter, for a variety of reasons - legal representation, insurance coverage, and Sport Rocketry. I've personally enjoyed attending both the National Sport Launch and NARCONs.

However, in being an objective observer, I do see a hole with NAR membership that'd be difficult to bridge. The AMA recently went through a similar delimna and had to readapt their philosophy - towards Park Flyers, as they were loosing members at a similar rate.

The average, entry-level, model rocketry enthusiast has little need for a NAR membership. Here me out . . .

Many of the entry-level, Estes-type, models are bought through your local vendors (Wal-mart, Michaels, Hobby-Lobby, etc.) by spur of the moment purchases. In fact, I recall one of our cottage industry suppliers stating that if it wasn't for Estes they would not have people coming to them. Few first-time purchasers buy anything but Estes. It's simply truth.

In addition, most people who buy an Estes kit do not read the small enclosed NAR materials. And then, in talking to these folks, if they do read it, they question whether there's any value in paying $65 a year to join an organization. They can simply pay a small amount of money for a starter kit, go find a field and launch. End of story. In their minds, not mine, why would they want to pay out $65 more?

Those of us who visit such message boards, may feel different, but that's truthfully the minority and we're already 'hooked' on the hobby. AMA saw the same thing happen with them, so they announced Park Flyer memberships hoping to capture that gap.

Is the NAR worth it to me? Yes. Would it be, if all I did was pick up a kit from Wal-mart and go fly a few models - frankly, no.


I'm with you on that AK:
I'm also a very long time NAR member but have for more then 20 years been preaching about making NAR membership much more affordable for the "Weekend Park Flyer". I beleive that is why both A & B division memberships are lower, and that if you look hard there is a "family discount". I'd sure like to see some form of NAR membeship made available to those who don't want a bi-monthly mag, but could benifit greatly with the insurance. It 's one of those things the NAR officers have been struggling with for years.
 
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I'm with you on that AK:
I'm also a very long time NAR member but have for more then 20 years been preaching about making NAR membership much more affordable for the "Weekend Park Flyer". I beleive that is why both A & B division member ships are lower, and that if you look hard there is a "family discount". I'd sure like to see some form of NAR membeship made available to those who don't want a bi-monthly mag, but could benifit greatly with the insurance. It 's one of those things the NAR officers have been struggling with for years.

Well, I'm stuck on exactly the opposite side of the fence... I want the mag, but I don't compete and I'm not interested in competing, and I fly from my own farm and have no need of the insurance. It's the insurance premium that makes NAR membership unaffordable to me.

FWIW... I agree-- I'd join in a second if there was a more affordable alternative... OL JR :)
 
Well, I'm stuck on exactly the opposite side of the fence... I want the mag, but I don't compete and I'm not interested in competing, and I fly from my own farm and have no need of the insurance. It's the insurance premium that makes NAR membership unaffordable to me.

FWIW... I agree-- I'd join in a second if there was a more affordable alternative... OL JR :)


Try thinking of it as $65 a year to support an organization that does a lot for the hobby and happens to have a really nice magazine. You may or may not benefit directly from all the things the organization does and offers but you'll certainly benefit from some of them.

I belong to a trade organization that has dues that are over $1000 a year. The magazine isn't as good as Sport Rocketry and I don't get anything else that I can actually put my hands on. However, I've paid it every year I've been in the business because I think the money is being used to support my interests.
 
The point I was looking at is simply growing the organization. I think Trip announced this past year the average NAR member's age is approximately 48 years old and increasing with each passing year.

What I'd like see addressed is how can NAR get the 12-30 year olds join - the future of the NAR; who probably aren't into competition, may like the opportunity for an affordable magazine and then make a decision from there.

What's affordable to that demographic and what would they like to see is the real question. I have nothing against any of us paying our $65 a year, and I'll continue to do so, but taking a survey from existing NAR membership leaves some significant holes in our data points. Those points were provided by people who are already members.
 
I think Trip announced this past year the average NAR member's age is approximately 48 years old ...

Wow. Now that is a cause for concern. My hopeful guess would have 10 to 15 years younger. Another guess is the Tripoli average age is somewhere in the same area as NAR's, perhaps even older. So for the survival of the hobby for future generations I hope NAR is successful in their membership drive.

While I am not a NAR member (I'm Tripoli), I really do like the magazine and used to get it off the rack at a Hobby Town in Charlotte NC. I am now in a city that is somewhat synonymous with the space program and have yet to find it.

Greg
 
FWIW, I pay over $100 per year for membership in my professional society (my previous career). This gets me a monthly magazine, invitations to local meetings I don't care to attend, professional conferences that I don't attend, and the availability of buying a whole bunch of products at a group discount. I buy life insurance and disability insurance through the group and the savings are so huge that even adding in my annual membership, I can't find anything even remotely close in price.

OK, I understand that the IEEE is the largest professional society anywhere, but can the NAR find something(s) that could be negotiated as a group discount and available only to members? There's no actual cost to the group but the discounts make the membership seem more affordable to the members.

Just a thought.

[edit] the purchasing discounts from many vendors for NAR members *is* an attraction that I find useful.
 
The point I was looking at is simply growing the organization. I think Trip announced this past year the average NAR member's age is approximately 48 years old and increasing with each passing year.

So what NAR really needs is a members' exercise program.

Paul (who is 48, and planning to be a NAR member well into the 2030s)
 
I feel sorry for the folks who are complaining about the "high" cost of NAR (and by analogy TRA) dues. They don't get out enough.

The average cost of a good PS3 or X-box video game is about $60. If you buy video games for your kids, there's no way you should be complaining about the cost of NAR dues. A game costs about the same as the cost of an the adult NAR membership, and is more than twice the $25 price tag for NAR Junior and Leader memberships for folks 20 and younger. In reality, NAR Junior and Leader membership are free when you consider that that the younger members receive Sport Rocketry Magazine which alone is worth more than the youth $25 membership dues. That's one way the adult NAR members pay forward and invest in the future of the hobby.

I really don't want to hear anymore complaining about NAR membership costs being too high. The objective facts say otherwise. If you like hobby rocketry you should be a member of NAR (and/or TRA). Period. These organizations actively support your hobby, and make it possible for you to secure you local launch field because they provide liability insurance for their members.

Bob
 
What does an "affordable alternative" look like, i.e. what elements does it absolutely HAVE to contain, and how much are you willing to pay for it?

Just throwing this out for brainstorming.

$25 Limited membership could include a membership card, magazine and insurance. Allowed access to compete/fly in any sanctioned contest through "D" power.

$45 regular membership could include the above and include all motors/rockets that do not need high power certification.

$62(or whatever) HP membership would include all of the above plus unrestricted engines depending on certification level.

In my experience the magazine is a must for all if we expect to grow members. Insurance risks are cheaper for those using a-d motors and higher for high power users so maybe the difference should be reflected in the membership fees. Likely there would be more money coming in overall in the long term considering the number of insurance claims so far.

There would be a little more involved logistically such as making membership cards read differently but we do that now on hp certification anyway.

Also the larger the motor you fly the more you can afford on membership fees.
 
I've heard that CRAP about how much we pay our Trade memberships, union dues and to other 'Hobby orgs" for years. It just doesn't hold water to the kids flying in the parks or first time short term flyers or even serious flyer like luke and others who aren't interested in most of the "benifits" from the national orgs.
If we are to Grow our national org.. we need the youth membership... the newbie flyers and those looking to learn..... I can't begin to tell you how much these youngsters would pay but the current fees are not doing it. what's that tell you Bunny?

Yeah I as a old timer,I grumble and pay the 65 buck just to support the hobby but to be brutally honest I really believe it's a rip.... The mag is nice, the insurance is critical but I don't give a rats rosey little behind about Compeitition anymore so most of the other "Benifits" don't apply.
I'd like to see some sort of youth or Newbie flyer sub-catagory that has some completely nominal fee like 5 bucks or something issued with every mod-roc kit.(like it used to be for a buck). perhaps for the modelers first 2 or 3 years in the hobby????

I've always said our NAR registration fee is the amount we pay the National org for the opportunity to spend more money for each additional thing we do within it. Look at that silly "10 reasons to join the NAR" flyer we send out with each registration.... You can add to each item on the list... "for an additional fee". I've sent you several copies blk line magic markered with these comments but never heard a word back.
If we are going to attract NEW flying members, they most likely need to be brought into the the clubs and org with a slowly increasing rate of spending more of their young funds on non-direct hobby related items.

Sorry I'll step off the soapbox, this is something that truely bothers me alot.
 
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I really don't want to hear anymore complaining about NAR membership costs being too high. If you like hobby rocketry you should be a member of NAR (and/or TRA). Period. These organizations actively support your hobby, and make it possible for you to secure you local launch field because they provide liability insurance for their members.


Bob, I can't answer for anyone other than myself, but I for one am not complaining in anything above. Not 'hearing' it, doesn't mean it still doesn't exist or won't continue to happen. You're hooked and are convinced, as am I. I pay my dues each year and I find personal comfort in my benefits as a NAR member. But, I'm also hooked into the hobby. I'm more concerned about attracting a younger demographic and what THEY feel is important. Those that aren't or weren't covered under a NAR survey.

What I express is a concern for a young modeler (the potential future of the hobby) that these fees appear to offer little value to a youngster/young adult who picks up a starter kit and goes to a park. In talking to people younger than me at Wal-mart, Michaels, H.L., or an LHS is that they simply don't feel a need to pay an additional $65 a year for something they already enjoy. Most youngsters don't feel a further obligation to pay more than they have to. Talking to them about a Sport Rocketry (which is hard to find on indvidual shelves) and $2m in additional insurance doesn't have an immediate impact to them, when in 10 minutes they're at a local park doing what they choose.

The video game/membership analogy is an apples/oranges comparison because Johnny is competing with Jimmy on Warcraft, whose competing with Jane, whose competing with George in their same grades and can do this newer hobby in relative comfort from their home, without transversing to a park or worrying about the weather. They also don't often need an adult to help them with everything. It's a simple evolution into a different hobby; not a bad one, or a worst one, just a different one.

AMA recognized this 'gap' and has attempted to address it through a Park Membership program. Maybe the NAR needs to have a LPR membership equivalent, to attract members? A fee affordable to a teenager where they see an immediate, tangible, and personal value?


Btw, my yearly fees didn't help secure my battle with the Park Comissioner - it was my own personal negotiating skills. All of the information I printed off for my Mayor and eight City Councilman/Alderman ended up in a circular file, that had a disposable liner. That was the sad truth. Even when I started having my NAR insurance coverage certificate forwarded to the city it wasn't filed along with my permits.

So it's not the complaining about fees that's the issue - it's how to attract and retain new members.

Didn't someone at the last NARCON ask about TARC membership retention, in the open forum? Maybe I heard wrong, but the retention rate amongst TARC contestants was astongishingly low!
 
Hi.

I'm the one who started this thread. I am sorry that I did. I think I stirred things up.

I was just needing more membership information that is all.

After about 3 people replied, by question was answered and I joined NAR.


Thanks to all who helped me.

Merry Christmas to all!!! :santa-smile:
 
What does an "affordable alternative" look like, i.e. what elements does it absolutely HAVE to contain, and how much are you willing to pay for it?

Well, insurance being an 'add on' if you want it would be nice... the way it USED to be... that would lower the cost quite significantly. As I said, I'm mainly interested in the magazine; membership 'benefits' (other than NARTS; I DO like NARTS) isn't really much for me because I'm not particularly interested in competition... but all you really need is a NAR number to compete anyway...

I'd say this... I liked things the way they were in '89-'90 timeframe after I graduated and started mechanic's school and couldn't afford rocketry for a long time (time or $$$-wise) when the $26 for insurance was something you sent in an extra application and check for if you wanted it. Assuming for a moment that the insurance rates have stayed the same (playing devil's advocate since it's obvious they've increased along with everything else in life) that $62 Senior membership, minus the $26 insurance premium, would be $36-- that sounds pretty darn reasonable to me, considering the times...

I'd be willing to pay that for basically a NAR number and the magazine, to help the organization...

JMHO! OL JR :)
 
I'm the one who started this thread. I am sorry that I did. I think I stirred things up.
:


You shouldn't feel sorry in the least; it helped you make a decision - for which you're happy about.

If people add or contribute other things, it's simply part of a a conversation - which happens all through life.
 
I feel sorry for the folks who are complaining about the "high" cost of NAR (and by analogy TRA) dues. They don't get out enough.

The average cost of a good PS3 or X-box video game is about $60. If you buy video games for your kids, there's no way you should be complaining about the cost of NAR dues. A game costs about the same as the cost of an the adult NAR membership, and is more than twice the $25 price tag for NAR Junior and Leader memberships for folks 20 and younger. In reality, NAR Junior and Leader membership are free when you consider that that the younger members receive Sport Rocketry Magazine which alone is worth more than the youth $25 membership dues. That's one way the adult NAR members pay forward and invest in the future of the hobby.

I really don't want to hear anymore complaining about NAR membership costs being too high. The objective facts say otherwise. If you like hobby rocketry you should be a member of NAR (and/or TRA). Period. These organizations actively support your hobby, and make it possible for you to secure you local launch field because they provide liability insurance for their members.

Bob

This is the same sort of arm-twisting attitude I see in so many of the agricultural organizations that laud their benefits that most farmers in their day-to-day lives don't see... because those benefits usually don't accrue to them-- they go to the 'movers and shakers' "in the industry".

Sorry, but I don't buy X-box games for my kid... I buy her books. We all pay for things as we have the need according to their perceived value. Like a recent conversation I had with my brother, on why I will NEVER buy a NEW car-- they're priced at DOUBLE their actual worth. I can get one with 30,000 miles on it a year or two old, for HALF the sticker price, which is more in line with it's value. So goes it with everything in life.

I hear a lot of these same sorts of arguments in my 'chosen field' of agriculture... people constantly harping on 'buy American' and "buy local" even though to buy a tire locally means paying $60 or more for a tire I can buy at Walmart for $45.... SORRY but I'm NOT paying that much extra for the benefit of the 'local' guy... The argument goes, "well, we buy your kid's 4H lamb or FFA steer or Youth Fair hog"... Ok, good for you... we don't raise animals for the fair-- that's a rich man city farmer's game... those are pets not livestock. I can't afford to pay 1/3 more for everything "in town" to support the locals when they buy animals at the fair from the rich kids... ESPECIALLY when I haul calves or cotton or grain to market and end up getting paid a THIRD WORLD PRICE for it, because somebody in China or India or Africa or Brazil can grow it cheaper than I can and is willing to sell for next to nothing... I hear guys raise sand about 'cheap Chinese tools' and go on and on how they'd NEVER buy them... I bought a Chinese 3/4 drive socket set and wrench for $60... A single Blackhawk socket cost nearly that much in the store! Yeah, the Chinese stuff isn't as good, but it's OK, and when I broke one I replaced it with and off the shelf ATD socket for $15, which beats $50...

Anyway, my point is, I can't afford membership... not at $62 bucks a year, not for what valueI would get from it. I feel like the $24 for my 5 year old is quite reasonable, so I got her a membership-- she enjoys getting things in the mail with her name on it, and looking at the magazine with me. She likes launching rockets and doing the countdowns, and she has fun at the club launches here on the farm. That has a value to me that, along with supporting the organization to the extent we can, makes it worth the cost.

Now, to the REAL issue at hand, where is the VALUE for the kids, newbs, and parents/adults just starting out?? THAT is the question you have to answer, if you want to entice that demographic.

As for us 'old farts' who are "too cheap" to pay the $62 for membership or constantly 'complain' about it... well, if the value is there, some will join, and if other's don't feel the value measures up to the cost, they won't. Hand waving and guilt trips don't accomplish much when it comes to value/cost decisions.

Incidentally, that's why I'm NOT a member of any ag organizations, and there is only ONE agricultural magazine that I will actually PAY FOR... and it's an independent mag that doesn't accept advertising and is largely 'farmer-contributor' written, printed on newsprint, and tells it like it is. I get several 'ag rags' free of charge, usually printed on slick glossy high-weight paper with production values more like a book (like LAUNCH was-- all slick and shiny and beautiful) than a magazine... BUT these ag-rags are just glorified advertising yellow-dog journalism crap that is SO slanted to the views and opinions of the advertisers and fat-cats, whose interestes and purposes are usually directly opposed to the needs and interests of the average family farmer, that they are of NO value to me whatsoever... In fact I wouldn't line a birdcage with "Cotton Farmer" and "Cotton Grower" magazine they are SUCH yellow-dog journalism... I even wrote the company and requested they quit sending me the free subscription-- I would get SO mad leafing through them that finally I just threw them straight into the trash when they'd come in the mail, and I didn't see the point in just wasting stuff like that...

See my point about value versus costs?? I deal with it EVERY DAY!

Of course, JMHO and YMMV... as may your values and costs.... OL JR :)
 
Hi.

I'm the one who started this thread. I am sorry that I did. I think I stirred things up.

I was just needing more membership information that is all.

After about 3 people replied, by question was answered and I joined NAR.


Thanks to all who helped me.

Merry Christmas to all!!! :santa-smile:
Johnny

No reason to be sorry.

There is a major misunderstanding on what NAR does and what it costs. The proposals for lower cost alternatives simply are not possible because NAR would not have enough funds to provide what folks are asking for.

This is a really good thread, and has brought out the benefits that hobby rocketry organizations provide for their members and how they spend your money.

Just throwing this out for brainstorming.

$25 Limited membership could include a membership card, magazine and insurance. Allowed access to compete/fly in any sanctioned contest through "D" power.

$45 regular membership could include the above and include all motors/rockets that do not need high power certification.

$62(or whatever) HP membership would include all of the above plus unrestricted engines depending on certification level.

In my experience the magazine is a must for all if we expect to grow members. Insurance risks are cheaper for those using a-d motors and higher for high power users so maybe the difference should be reflected in the membership fees. Likely there would be more money coming in overall in the long term considering the number of insurance claims so far.

There would be a little more involved logistically such as making membership cards read differently but we do that now on hp certification anyway.

Also the larger the motor you fly the more you can afford on membership fees.
Joe

Did you look at the cost breakdown I abstracted in post 4 of this thread.

About 900 Junior and Leader members represent 20% of the NAR membership (all those under 21) pay $25 for their annual membership, raising ~$22K. This is not as restrictive as your limited membership because those under 18 can launch up to F impulse motors by themselves, and those from 14-18 can be L1 participants under the mentor ship of a senior NAR HP member. It doesn't cost any more for insurance purposes to launch larger verses smaller motors.

The approximate 3600 Senior NAR members pay $62 per year for their membership raising about $213K. (The numbers are rounded, the actual dues revenues are ~$235K.)

The net cost of publishing Sport Rocketry is $105K, or about 45% of the NAR dues. The annual cost of insurance is $45K or 19% of the NAR dues, and the cost of the NAR office expenses is $45K or 19% of the NAR dues.

NAR insurance is a group plan and is this low because NAR only allows it's members to launch certified motors so the risks are minimal. Furthermore motor certifications costs are paid for by the motor manufacturers so it doesn't cost the membership anythin for motor certifications.

The minimum bare bones NAR budget amounts to $195K, before you consider the other publication costs, the website maintenance costs, the costs associated with NARAM, NSL and NARCON (the events typically pay for them selves so the costs are minimal.), and competitions, scholarship grants, TARC, and other educational and outreach services.

The National Association of Rocketry is a 501(c)(3) tax-exempt nonprofit educational organization for consumers that advances the hobby of sport rocketry through organized events, local clubs, technical certification, research and development, and government and corporate partnerships to ensure that rocketry continues to be safe, educational, and fun.
https://www.nar.org/pdf/Organizational%20Statement%20of%20the%20NAR.pdf

NAR has exactly 1 paid employee, Mrs. Marie Stumpe, who runs the office, does all the correspondence, etc., and gets paid 20 hours a week for 50 weeks a year of office work. Everyone else in NAR. the Officers, Trustees, and Committee members, and section leasership are unpaid volunteers! And the committees themselves are primarily self sustaining and/or rely on donations from their members to pay for many of their expenses.

A $45 dollar normal membership would result in a $17 short fall per membership dues. That's ~$17,000 for the ~1,000 adult members down-rating from a senior membership how are not high power certified.

From how I see it, about 90% of NAR dues goes directly back to the membership in the form of services so please tell us what services you would like NAR to eliminate so we can lower the dues? By eliminate all competitions, or eliminate all outreach and scholarship programs, or by reduce the number of Sport Rocketry issues from 6 to 5. Something would have to go for everyone because there is no fat in the budget.

A loss of revenue from reduced membership dues or a reduction in members means service cuts. Period. That's why NAR is actively trying to increase membership this year by increasing retention and bringing in new members.

Each year NAR gains and looses ~1200 members, ~900 senior members and ~300 Junior and Leader members. The average Junior or Leader membership lasts 2 years and the average Senior membership lasts 5 years. If folks kept their NAR membership for just 1 year longer, the organization would grow to 5000 over the next 5 years. This larger membership due to increased member retention would mean the NAR dues revenue would increase to ~$260K, or increase by $5K per year over the next 5 years. In reality that's probably the long term inflation rate.

Increasing the number of new NAR memberships from 1200 a year to 1500 would also be great news. While it's doable, IMO it's much harder to accomplish given the competition of free time with video games, the web, and the R/C hobbies, not to mention the boom in outdoor and competitive sports for youth and young adults. 10's of thousands of scouts, 4-H'ers and other young adults dabble in rocketry each year, but probably only 1% or 2% actually join organized rocketry. Why? Probably because they look at rocketry as a one-time done that, check off the box, move on to the next item on the list kind of event. That's hard to change unless the NAR membership proactively increases outreach activities, and convinces youth to stay in the hobby for a few more years.

I sure it's not what you want to hear, but I believe it's based on the cokl hard financial facts of a hobby organization fighting for survival.

If anyone has a better fact-based business model for NAR, please let Trip know about it.

Bob
 
Hi.

I'm the one who started this thread. I am sorry that I did. I think I stirred things up.

I was just needing more membership information that is all.

After about 3 people replied, by question was answered and I joined NAR.


Thanks to all who helped me.

Merry Christmas to all!!! :santa-smile:
Sorry about that, johnnyrockets - but discussion threads often do take on lives of their own, and continue on long after the original question has been answered. That's just the nature of forums. Your question is a familiar one that is often discussed and debated, which is why there have been so many responses to it in this thread. We all recognize that for you, the matter is done and you are ready to move on, but there are some of us who still want to discuss things that have come up in the course of the thread. There is no requirement for you to continue to follow it if you aren't interested in the extended discussion. Don't worry; the moderators will keep the rest of us from smashing up the furniture and stealing the plumbing fixtures. You can bow out at any time, and no one will be offended. :D

MarkII
 
I am as strapped for funds (or worse) as anyone on this forum, and yet I manage to scrape together the $62 each year. (Coming up with it requires a lot of bottle deposit redemptions - you have no idea!) So if even I can swing it, then...

I was at that Town Hall Meeting chaired by Trip at NARCON 2009 too, and I do recall that he outlined one sure way to get the annual membership fee reduced: double NAR's total membership. So if you want to have a lower fee, get out there and recruit new members!

Seriously, it's not like NAR is sitting on a big fat pile of money. The organization is run entirely by volunteers. It has exactly one paid employee - the person who runs the office in Marion IA.

It's simple: if we want NAR to continue to deliver all that we want from it, we have to pay the freight. There is no other way.

MarkII
 
I sure it's not what you want to hear, but I believe it's based on the cokl hard financial facts of a hobby organization fighting for survival.

I would not characterize the current NAR as "fighting for survival". It certainly was in that financial condition when I became President. We were $40,000 in debt, and with cash reserves that were technically insufficient to meet our promised obligations to members.

What NAR Treasurer Stew McNabb and I attempted to do was to first balance the budget, then set up a system of financial reporting and control that would allow the NAR Board to make rational decisions about funding. I think that system worked pretty well, as we retired the debt, restored the magazine business to deliver what we promised, found an affordable insurance option, and built up some cash reserves.

What most hobbyists don't realize is that this is hard work, and it's no fun having to tell people, as you did, "this is what it costs for us to do what we do as the NAR".

In the end, I subscribe to the philosophy that says an organization does no service to its members and other stakeholders if it's not on sound financial footing, and that footing has to be taken care of before anything else.

My $0.02; YMMV.
 
Joe

Did you look at the cost breakdown I abstracted in post 4 of this thread.

About 900 Junior and Leader members represent 20% of the NAR membership (all those under 21) pay $25 for their annual membership, raising ~$22K. This is not as restrictive as your limited membership because those under 18 can launch up to F impulse motors by themselves, and those from 14-18 can be L1 participants under the mentor ship of a senior NAR HP member. It doesn't cost any more for insurance purposes to launch larger verses smaller motors.

The approximate 3600 Senior NAR members pay $62 per year for their membership raising about $213K. (The numbers are rounded, the actual dues revenues are ~$235K.)

The net cost of publishing Sport Rocketry is $105K, or about 45% of the NAR dues. The annual cost of insurance is $45K or 19% of the NAR dues, and the cost of the NAR office expenses is $45K or 19% of the NAR dues.

NAR insurance is a group plan and is this low because NAR only allows it's members to launch certified motors so the risks are minimal. Furthermore motor certifications costs are paid for by the motor manufacturers so it doesn't cost the membership anythin for motor certifications.

The minimum bare bones NAR budget amounts to $195K, before you consider the other publication costs, the website maintenance costs, the costs associated with NARAM, NSL and NARCON (the events typically pay for them selves so the costs are minimal.), and competitions, scholarship grants, TARC, and other educational and outreach services.

The National Association of Rocketry is a 501(c)(3) tax-exempt nonprofit educational organization for consumers that advances the hobby of sport rocketry through organized events, local clubs, technical certification, research and development, and government and corporate partnerships to ensure that rocketry continues to be safe, educational, and fun.
https://www.nar.org/pdf/Organizational Statement of the NAR.pdf

NAR has exactly 1 paid employee, Mrs. Marie Stumpe, who runs the office, does all the correspondence, etc., and gets paid 20 hours a week for 50 weeks a year of office work. Everyone else in NAR. the Officers, Trustees, and Committee members, and section leasership are unpaid volunteers! And the committees themselves are primarily self sustaining and/or rely on donations from their members to pay for many of their expenses.

A $45 dollar normal membership would result in a $17 short fall per membership dues. That's ~$17,000 for the ~1,000 adult members down-rating from a senior membership how are not high power certified.

From how I see it, about 90% of NAR dues goes directly back to the membership in the form of services so please tell us what services you would like NAR to eliminate so we can lower the dues? By eliminate all competitions, or eliminate all outreach and scholarship programs, or by reduce the number of Sport Rocketry issues from 6 to 5. Something would have to go for everyone because there is no fat in the budget.

A loss of revenue from reduced membership dues or a reduction in members means service cuts. Period. That's why NAR is actively trying to increase membership this year by increasing retention and bringing in new members.

Each year NAR gains and looses ~1200 members, ~900 senior members and ~300 Junior and Leader members. The average Junior or Leader membership lasts 2 years and the average Senior membership lasts 5 years. If folks kept their NAR membership for just 1 year longer, the organization would grow to 5000 over the next 5 years. This larger membership due to increased member retention would mean the NAR dues revenue would increase to ~$260K, or increase by $5K per year over the next 5 years. In reality that's probably the long term inflation rate.

Increasing the number of new NAR memberships from 1200 a year to 1500 would also be great news. While it's doable, IMO it's much harder to accomplish given the competition of free time with video games, the web, and the R/C hobbies, not to mention the boom in outdoor and competitive sports for youth and young adults. 10's of thousands of scouts, 4-H'ers and other young adults dabble in rocketry each year, but probably only 1% or 2% actually join organized rocketry. Why? Probably because they look at rocketry as a one-time done that, check off the box, move on to the next item on the list kind of event. That's hard to change unless the NAR membership proactively increases outreach activities, and convinces youth to stay in the hobby for a few more years.

I sure it's not what you want to hear, but I believe it's based on the cokl hard financial facts of a hobby organization fighting for survival.

If anyone has a better fact-based business model for NAR, please let Trip know about it.

Bob

Thanks Bob.

I was just offering some ideas to think about. Let's say that 1000 present members downgrade their current memberships. I don't think that would happen and both of us are entitled to our opinion.

What if another thousand or two thousand people who buy their rocket supplies from the local hobby shops and big box stores would join because the dues for them to fly their rockets are $25 instead of $62.

We are talking about growing the organization but don't really want to let go of the old methods that have proven to be less than successful.

Maybe a smaller magazine or fewer color pages since that's seems to be the majority of the expense and there is a captive market anyway.

I appreciate the breakdown of expenses.

Brainstorming means just throwing out ideas. My price guidelines were arbitrary.

Obviously the organization needs to be solvent. It just seems like the more members we have the less the cost would be per member.

It's just a matter of deciding do we lower cost or increase benefits to get new members or just wait for the huge influx of people that is bound to happen by continuing current policy and pricing.
 
It just seems like the more members we have the less the cost would be per member.


No doubt the best way to go. I've personally sponsored a couple of memberships, out of pocket during the past few years - not one of those indidiviuduals renewed the following year on their own accord. Even with a year's head start, they simply didn't see the value enough to save a few dollars a month to continue/

The challenge is how to impart the value of a a membership to a kid or young adult who simply wants to, on occasion, buy a starter kit or a few motors and launch from a park? From personal conversations with these types of individuals, I often get the rolling of the eyes.

There's simply no requirement to buy a membership requirement to build, buy, or even launch. The question still looms on how to tap into this market.
 
In the end, I subscribe to the philosophy that says an organization does no service to its members and other stakeholders if it's not on sound financial footing, and that footing has to be taken care of before anything else.

My $0.02; YMMV.

Your ability to put NAR on that sound footing is most certainly the result of the efforts of a fairly small number of knowledgeable professionals who volunteered a lot of their time, yourself included, of course. We've seen the comment a couple of times in this thread that there's exactly one paid employee. That means that the bulk of the work - including the drudgery of setting and keeping that budget -is done by volunteers. I run a slightly larger organization (four paid employees) that is just as dependent on volunteers (myself included), and without that volunteer effort it'd sink like a rock. It's often not fun - this week we had to lay off an employee and cope with a client who was acting inappropriately towards the staff. I'm sure that the NAR volunteers have similarly bad weeks in that role. My $62 is nothing compared with what you folks have put into NAR, and I appreciate it. Thank you.

:merry-christmas:
 
My $62 is nothing compared with what you folks have put into NAR, and I appreciate it. Thank you.
Indeed; I got impatient waiting for my card, and so I sent an email just to check on it. This was on a Sunday evening, so I certainly didn't expect an answer until the next day at best.

I received a response from Marie later that evening, explaining the processing and assuring me it was on it's way; it actually arrived the next day.

The fact that the Headquarters manager responded at 8:00pm on a Sunday demonstrates, to me at least, a level of commitment that is certainly worth $5 a month.
 
I would not characterize the current NAR as "fighting for survival". It certainly was in that financial condition when I became President. We were $40,000 in debt, and with cash reserves that were technically insufficient to meet our promised obligations to members.

What NAR Treasurer Stew McNabb and I attempted to do was to first balance the budget, then set up a system of financial reporting and control that would allow the NAR Board to make rational decisions about funding. I think that system worked pretty well, as we retired the debt, restored the magazine business to deliver what we promised, found an affordable insurance option, and built up some cash reserves.

What most hobbyists don't realize is that this is hard work, and it's no fun having to tell people, as you did, "this is what it costs for us to do what we do as the NAR".

In the end, I subscribe to the philosophy that says an organization does no service to its members and other stakeholders if it's not on sound financial footing, and that footing has to be taken care of before anything else.

My $0.02; YMMV.
Bunny

My comments on fighting for survival apply equally to a common problem that thousands of small non-profit hobby organizations without endowments have: raising revenues. Every day their leaders have to work hard to maintain membership and try to recruit new members to grow revenues at least to match the inflation rate to maintain member services. This is what I meant when I said that hobby organizations are continually fighting for survival.

I did not intend to imply that NAR is in trouble. Quite to the contrary, the NAR of today is incredibly well run, and is a great value to its membership, and there's nothing that I see that will change this in the foreseeable future.

Bob
 
When I was a kid I did a lot of different activities in my free time - basically, whatever caught my interest at the time. I think that is how all kids operate. Some things "stuck" for a little while, other things didn't, and one or two became lifelong passions. (You can probably guess what one of them was.) But I wasn't just "checking off boxes." I did a great many other things, too, but model rocketry really struck a chord with me, and set up long-term residence in my imagination. But no one recruited me; no outreach program reached out to me. At the time, no youth organization in my area did anything with model rockets; my Boy Scout troop had never heard of them. (The Space Exploration merit badge hadn't been created yet.) When a few of us from the troop "graduated" from Boy Scouts and formed an Explorer patrol, we pursued a secondary affiliation with the Civil Air Patrol. But I never saw any model rocketry-related material in the CAP information either. None of the teachers in my school knew anything about model rockets; when I told them about it, none of them were interested. No adults facilitated my involvement in the hobby in any way; in fact, my parents tried to discourage it. When I started, there was no one else in my school who even knew that such a hobby even existed, and very few had any interest when I told them about it.

I did not have any exposure to any of the kinds of outreach, mentoring or recruitment efforts that we now consider to be so key to growing the membership. And yet I immediately took to model rocketry like the proverbial fish to the worm, and I have been happily hooked ever since. No one introduced me to model rocketry; I went out and found it because for a long time I had been keenly interested in doing something like that.

Outreach efforts can help you find those kids who will maintain a continuing interest and involvement in the hobby, but in order to uncover those gems, you will have to sift through a whole lot sand. Just because you managed to get 25 kids to come to a build and fly session, don't think that you have added 25 new members to the hobby. They may have been very interested at the time, but the vast majority will move on to something else soon afterward; you will only get a very small number (if you get any at all) for who the hobby "sticks." You can't create model rocketry enthusiasts, you can only do your best to try to find them.

MarkII
 
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