Downscales of some classics

Originally posted by gpoehlein
Yeah - I'll make the wraps available in the next few days - I want to tweak them a bit first.

Greg

Click to expand...

Greg: did you ever get around to makeing those wraps downloadable? I'd like one of the alpha's sometime.

Has anyone else done a downscale Sprint?

Originally posted by Micromeister
Some folks here have talked about printed paper body wraps that seem to do a fine job.

Click to expand...

The Micro Goblin and Micro Sentinal that I posted earlier in this thread are printed on 65# coverstock and the body tubes are rolled as a double thickness.

The fins are pre-printed and glued together also. The only "real" model rocket parts are the Quark nose cones.

"Quest will be coming out with New kits sometime later this year".
Actually what I heard at NARCON was that the Quest offering may
be delayed while they work on their new 18mm motor. Should
be cool, I saw the prototype casing, new hightech material.

Originally posted by Micromeister
Greg: did you ever get around to makeing those wraps downloadable? I'd like one of the alpha's sometime.

Click to expand...

Well, I'm still tinkering - trying to get the file size down to something reasonable. I may post the old style alpha wrap (the black/white/red version from the 70s) as it is small (no decals).

I've been playing with a couple other things too - I've just about finished the wrap for a BT-5 downscale of the Sprint. And I decided to try and see just what these things are capable in Rocsim. I created a rocket using the mosquito nose cone, 1-1/4" length of BT-5, a 1/2" long transition and 3" BT-2+ (1/2" inside BT-5, 1/2" inside transition). The fins are similar to those on the X-Ray (clipped delta: 0.5" root, 0.5" span and 0.3" tip). Rocsim says it will do nearly 500 feet on a MMXII motor! I gotta build it and see!

More when I get a chance.

Greg

Trust me Greg:
No Bt-5 model will get anywhere close to 500 feet on a MM-II motor, First the delays is just tooooo short. Try changing the CD to .75 and thenrun your sim again.

X-Ray? Are you talking about the OLD X-Ray or the new version 13mm body with the 20mm payload section?
Heres the micro 10.5 to 7mm downscale of the Older 80's model, Best flight it's ever had was about 140-150 feet

Well, it took me a while, but I finally got the file size down to a reasonable level for the Alpha wraps. This first one is the original, black stripe alpha. Print the wrap on a high brightness paper and glue around the BT-5 body tube. If you don't want to spray paint the nose, I recommend Tamiya Color acrylic model paint (it sticks to the plastic nicely, covers in about two coats, and smooths nicely even if brush painted).

Greg

And here's the second Alpha wrap - this one is the current white with red and blue decals.

Greg

Lastly (for now), here is the Cherokee D (Cherokee 1/8A?) wrap. This one uses the Quark nose cone.

Greg

Greg,

Thanks for the wraps of those classics. I really like the Cherokee and was considering making wraps for myself but you have saved me a lot of effort.

I made a Goblin and Sentinal that use the Quark nose cones but I made them as rolled body tubes instead of wraps. I don't have anyway to make them PDF files and they are kind of big. What do you use for software to make the PDF's ?

Well, you have to understand that I do some design work on a professional basis (one of my other avocations is as a RPG and board game designer), so I have a lot of tools at my disposal. I use Adobe Illustrator to lay out most of the stuff, and Photoshop to clean up the decals. Actually, a lot of my decals are imported into Illustrator and re-drawn there - that was the case with the Cherokee D and Alpha. To get the pdf files small, though, I have to save the files as pdf files, open them with Acrobat (full version), save them as postscript files, and then open convert them back to pdf with Adobe Distiller. It is a lot of steps, but the pdf of the current version Alpha started out at about 300+ KB coming straight out of Illustrator, and by using Distiller, I got it down to 44 KB - worth the time and trouble.

Greg

Greg,

Thanks for the information. I don't have any of those tools and it's probably not cost effective for me to purchase them.

So I have to get by with what I have. I was surprised at how good my decals come out just using MS Paint.

They are 300dpi TIF files and the Goblin is 275KB and the Sentinal is 250 kb so they are too big to post.

But for me, I don't care how big they are.

Bob

Originally posted by gpoehlein
.....Print the wrap on a high brightness paper and glue around the BT-5 body tube....

Click to expand...

Do you print these on regular weight paper?

You had mentioned "presentation paper" earlier in the thread. Is that a regular weight paper or is it a heavier paper?

Originally posted by gpoehlein
Lastly (for now), here is the Cherokee D (Cherokee 1/8A?) wrap. This one uses the Quark nose cone.

Greg

Click to expand...

I see that you drew both the original short version and the later long version.

I still have my original balsa nose cone short version. The later release had a plastic nose cone and a longer body tube.

Originally posted by jflis
Interesting... I have that in the NARAM photo album, but that sure do look like one of Bill's pads.... not to mention the flag partition... hhhmmmmm

Click to expand...

I made the pad but it's one I made for NOVAAR. It's mostly worn off but you can see the the remants of the NOVAAR logo on it. CMASS wires are white, our blast deflectors are slightly bigger, and the pad numbers mount on the edge not the middle. I wouldn't expect anybody other than me to notice those things.

I print them on Office Depot Presentation Paper. It is 35# bond, 96 bright and matte finish. The last is the really important part, as that means the surface is really smooth, as opposed to regular printer paper. I suppose you could use gloss photo paper, but it is both more expensive and less flexible.

As for the Cherokee - yeah - I decided that it was just as easy to do both versions. Granted, the nose cone isn't exactly right, but the result is still pretty good. I've also done the Red Max and the original Mini Brute Mosquito, but the Red Max is 103 KB (just a bit too big to be uploaded here), and for some reason, the Mosquito is over 300 K - I have to try something else and see if I can get it small enough. But, as I get them small enough and do more, I'll post them here.

Greg

Another update - got three more wraps for you - the old Maxi-Brute Mosquito (the one with the bug on the fin), and both a Red Max and Big Red Max. The Mosquito uses, well, the Mosquito nose cone. Both Maxes use the Quark nose.

Enjoy!

Greg

Edit: I changed out the file here - I removed the Estes Logo. Hopefully, they won't have any problem with the Mini-Brutes bug logo, as I left that in. Also included is an extra blank fin, so you can build the rocket without any graphics at all if you so wish. Enjoy, gang!

GP

Here's the Red Max. I had to drop the resolution a bit to get it to fit, but it should still look fine.

Greg

And finally the Big Red Max. It is the same as the regular version, just a longer body tube. I wanted to put them on the same page, but the file got just a hair too big to do it that way. Ahh well...

Greg

Thanks for the new wraps.

I bought a couple of packages of BT-5 nose cones assortments. Each pack had 3 Quark cones and 2 Mosquito cones.

No Swift cones though.

So I guess I'll have to wait to make the Alpha's.

Yeah - I've never seen the Swift noses in those packs - you gotta buy a few swifts for conversions (I've got about a dozen - picked up 2 or 3 at a time each Hobby Lobby sale! )

Of course, they aren't that expensive as it is - heck, I've even done a 220 Swift as a MMX rocket using the wrap technique rather that painting and decaling - it is a heck of a lot faster!

Greg

Originally posted by gpoehlein
... picked up 2 or 3 at a time each Hobby Lobby sale! ...

Click to expand...

I would do the same,

If they had any Hobby Lobby stores on the east coast.

Very very Nice Wraps Greg
One suggestion particularly on the mosquito since it's full size. While I don't really understand their reasoning Estes seems to be very funny (touchy) about others "Cloning" Estes tm logo. Even with permission to clone old OOP decals they've been pretty tough about NOT including the estes logo in the downscale decal sheet. You'd think they would like the free publicity but apparently that is not the case


I do most of my waterslide downscale decal cleanup in Corel 10 Bob if that helps. Sometime a little color adjusting in Photoshop but most all the artwork is done in Corel. You can sometimes get pretty good deals on the older versions of Corel if you watch the Computer store sale flyers.
When doing my 7mm intercepter decal sheet I found it's easier to simply redraw the entire decal then try to clearn up the distorted decal scans.

Originally posted by extremevelocity
Hi I found this article on EMRR:0
I built the Der Red Max and it really screams on the tiny 13mm motor.
Check it out even the fin patterns are there
Mike

https://www.rocketreviews.com/reviews/scratch/est_mini_classics.html

Click to expand...

2005 EMRR Challenge:

#7 - Scale Up / Scale Down any Available or OOP Rocket. Build, Finish, Fly* and write an article that would allow someone else to do the same.

Go for it!

Nick

Originally posted by gpoehlein
I used presentation paper because it takes the ink with more intense (and crisp) color. I think the type of paper is the key - I used Office Depot's home brand of Premium Matte Presentation Paper.

Click to expand...

Greg,

Holy cow! I was in Office Depot and checked out the presentation paper but it's incredibly expensive ($21 for 150 sheets). Is it really worth the money? If so, why is it so different from other premium papers?

Originally posted by EMRR
2005 EMRR Challenge:

#7 - Scale Up / Scale Down any Available or OOP Rocket. Build, Finish, Fly* and write an article that would allow someone else to do the same.

Go for it!

Nick

Click to expand...

I would certainly have already done this if it weren't for the requirement to fly it. We haven't had any decent weather since November.

But, as soon as I can get to a launch, I will have a couple of reviews.

Originally posted by Gus
Greg,

Holy cow! I was in Office Depot and checked out the presentation paper but it's incredibly expensive ($21 for 150 sheets). Is it really worth the money? If so, why is it so different from other premium papers?

Click to expand...

Well, I think it is, but then I already had some that I bought for some other projects. The difference is that the paper isn't as porous as regular ink jet paper, so the colors are much more vivid that on a regular paper. I printed out the Cherokee D body tube wrap on both presentation paper and standard 24# bond printer paper and scanned them side-by-side. As you can see, the colors on the presentation paper on the left are a bit brighter than those on the right. Which you choose is up to you - and there might be other papers that give similar results for less money. Hey, experimentation is what this hobby is all about, right?

Greg

Greg,

Thanks for the demonstration. I know when I do wraps on full-size label paper that they appear quite flat when printed. Once sprayed with clear coat (Rustoleum) the colors become quite vibrant.

I'm planning on doing one of Erik te Groen's Mercury Redstone upgrades and the incredible detail in his wraps probably deserves the best paper possible so I think I'll give the presentation paper a try.

Thanks again for introducing me to something new and explaining it so well.

Originally posted by Gus
Holy cow! I was in Office Depot and checked out the presentation paper but it's incredibly expensive ($21 for 150 sheets). Is it really worth the money?

Click to expand...

Gus,
Yes, that is a rather pricey ream of paper. No, at 14 cents per sheet (which gets you, what, one or two of these rockets per sheet?) that is still fairly cheap for a rocket.

Greg,
My problem (among the many others) is that I have nowhere to get this stuff printed. I have a cheapo color printer at home because otherwise my kids would run me into the poor house. I can't use the really good color printers at work because I don't know how to alter the settings to make these prints, and because the printers are out near a main aisle and everybody and his brother will see me printing 'personal' items on the company equipment (a big no-no around here). And the last time I took this stuff to kinko's they did a really crummy job.
Is there any chance you might decide to go into the business of printing these things for us? (Maybe a dollar a sheet for the small ones?)

I get the same stuff done at Staples but what I do is print it on normal paper and have Staples copy it with their printer using their 34# presentation paper.

I'm not sure what kind of color printer/copier they use but the quality is a lot better than my printer! I think it's a laser printer.

I think with printing the copies are like $0.70 a sheet (8.5 x 11) or $1.05 for 11" x 17" (I have 'em print two copies on each sheet).

Not sure what my final cost is 'cause I get all kinds of discounts and rebates and credits when I use American Express.

I had my "paper" Saturn 1B and the paper wraps for my Little Joe II printed like that.

The don't have that presentation paper in legal size.

Y'know, Powder, we might check with Fred at Excelcior when he gets back - If the wraps look good printed on my Epson printer (which only cost about $80, BTW), imagine what it would look like on his ALPS. I'm sure he would be willing to provide the wraps for a minimal charge, and I'll be happy to provide him the artwork in just about any format he'd need.

Greg