Ring Finned Rockets

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Mike

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Whilst looking a EMRR I saw a rocket with ring fins. I was instantly facinated by them and immediatly had the thought of making a ring finned rocket, but milli seconds after that thought I said to myself

How?

Anyone got any suggestions of websites with a bit of help for me, anyone with any experience of ring finned rockets? What materials should I be using?

Thanks
 
Mike,

I really don't know of a site for you but will make some comments (so what else is new?)

Estes made one a long time ago, I forget it's name. Typical construction techniques apply. Basically you just need a rocket, a ring made from some larger body tube, and fins that fit between the two. The Estes rocket also had small tabs that were glued on the outside of the ring fin to give the impression that the fins extended thru that tube.

Fins span is sized by subtracting the OD of the body tube from the ID of the ring, and dividing by two. Make them a bit larger and then sand to fit.

The ring will help with aerodynamic stability, but will add weight aft, so you need to check its stability. EMRR has a link under "Rocksims" that explains how to model ring fins in that program. I think there are several examples on his site.

Good luck!
 
I had a link sometime ago about a guy that made some large ones. MarkBrown showed me the link, maybe he will chime in here. But basically what was happening is that you have the body tube, and the fins. Now find a body tube to match the outer diameter of the fins. Then cut the body tube to length. and it doesn't have to be a body tube, it could be a spare piece of tubing laying around the house, sono tube, or a Quaker Oats can. Just be creative.... :D
 
How about a Sprite that is 14" in diameter with a 48" ring...on 'O' power?

The guy's name is Ben Russell. You Whittaker's boys should know where the details are. Just saw a flight report in the MDRA newsletter but it's PDF and I can't clip the picture.
 
Mike:

Here is excerpts from several posts in RMR about CP information related to ring tail cp stability that you might find useful.

Regarding the ring tail code, I took data from MIL-HDBK-762, that
states that a ringtail has twice the force moment as a rectangular
cruciform fin of the same chord length and span. (This also
apparently matches with data in Hoerner's fluid dynamics books.) Of
course this has *not* been verified by model flight tests - R&D
project for anyone interested.


So, let me attempt to re-iterate: I simulate a ring tail rocket by
calculating the CP as if it were a normal four-finned rocket (with 90deg
between fins). The four fins are rectangular, with the chord dimension
being the "height" of the ring piece, and the span being the radius of
the ring minus the radius of the body tube. Such a calculation of CP is
then overly conservative, because the ring tail is actually twice a good
as that. Is that what you're saying?

We've also played around a bit with ring-tails, and they are fun! The
stability of a ring-tailed missile is much, much better than that of a
fin-tailed missile with the same general dimensions. In other words, a
ring-tailed model with a ring diameter of 3" and a ring chord of 1.5" is much
more efficient than a fin-tailed missile with four fins of 1.5" and an overall
fin span of ??.

Stability of ring-tails increases rapidly with increasing outside diameter of
the ring, and also increases rapidly as the chord of the ring is increased up
to 1/2 the ring diameter. There is little if any increase to be gained by
making the ring chord greater than 1/2 the ring diameter.

Hmmm, Hoerner's Ring Wing equation can be used to work out a 'ring
tail' type of configuration too...

For a ring tail, I've used the information in MIL-HDBK-762 that says
that a ring tail is about twice as effective as a rectangular
cruciform tail with the ring tail chord = the rectangular fin chord,
and the ring tail diameter = the cruciform tip-tip span. If Hoerner's
data agrees with '762, then we'd get similar (CN)t for both of the
following examples:


______
| |
|______|__________ 4 fins, s = 1, a = b = 2,
|
|________________ d = 1
| |
|______|

______
| |
| |__________ ringtail, a = 2, tail dia = 3
| |
| |_________ d = 1
| |
|______|


For the ringtail I'd first assume that the 'ring' body interference is
negligible (as long as the ring diameter is >> the body dia), and
that we can ignore the ring supporting structure. With these
assumptions then,

(CN)frt = (CN)trt = pi * d/c (rt = ring tail)


So if this is going to match what the '762 says, then for the above
examples, the following should be true: (also assuming that the
fin/ring Xf's are similar)

(CN)trt = 2 * (CN)t


scratching that out, for that example, I get 4.7 ~= 4.4

fudge in some body-ring interference & that gets way too close for a
coincidence..

Normal Force = N
Surface Area of Ring Fin = S
Diameter of Ring Fin =D
Fin Span = r
Root Cord = b

N = (32 * (S/D)^2) / (1 + Sqrt( 1 + (r/b)^2))
Fin Cp location = 0.75 * b


The general rule appears to be that a ring fin of diameter X and chord Y
will give twice the aerodynamic effect as four fins of semi-span X/2 and
chord Y -- that is, it's twice as effective as a set of conventional
fins with the same projection.

I just wanted to add that using 4 "fins" with a ring tail is not absolutely necessary.....you can use 3 which would reduce the drag and you also might be able to even get away with only 2 "fins"....

 
I built a ring fin this weekend past.
The pylons are ttw on both the ring and the body tube. The centering rings butt up against the fin tabs acting like a bulkhead to the motor mount.
Not bad for my first ring fin
What do you think?rin gfin boys.jpgring fin 1.jpgring fin close.jpg

All I need is a recovery system and some needed finishing.
 
Another good source of rings to use is inside the boxes that pots and pans and similar kitchenwares come in. The rings are typically used to separate lids and such. My Mom saves them for me even though I don't build ring finned stuff myself, I like to give them away to folks that do need them if they want them. I may still have a few kicking around I can go look if anyone from this decade is interested.
 
For those of us that have trouble cutting tubing well, "THESE" come in handy.

I came mighty close to ordering those, until I decided that I wasn't always going to need a 1" ring. And my first ring build needed 1 1/4". :)

I just cut the ring like any other BT. I did put a coupler inside the tube to support it, that helped. And the CA on the edges followed by a bunch of sanding and it came out presentable.
 
Fliskits has a couple as well
true ring fins
https://fliskits.com/products/rocketkits/kit_detail/bulls_eye.htm
https://fliskits.com/products/rocketkits/kit_detail/tumbleweed.htm
Offset rings
https://fliskits.com/products/rocketkits/kit_detail/borealis.htm
https://fliskits.com/products/rocketkits/kit_detail/celtic_thunder.htm

Ring and Tube fins are neat
thanks for the data shockwaveriderz It makes sense considering the greater surface area of the ring to similar sized fins and that you don't have the tip losses that standard fins have
 
For more standard ring fings, make SURE you do not ignore the grain rules for fins for the attachments. The grain should be parallel to the leading edge of the fin or strut, generally with these will be perpendicular or near perpendicular to the long axis of the rocket. If you don't do this, the attachments easily break, even if you paper the fins. Yes, I know this from experience.
 
Question:

Would you consider the tube fins that make up the Super Neon XL to be a ring fin rocket?
 
I would consider the Super Neon/Super Neon XL a tube fin rocket with extra fins on the tubes. A ring finned rocket has fins between the ring and the main body tube. Ring fin and tube fin rockets tend to be a bit draggier than standard fins.
 
A ring fin is concentric with the body tube.

Exact definition of a tube fin is debatable, but a tube surface mounted to the outer surface of the body tube is a good start.

In another thread I concluded that tubes outside the BT but not mounted directly to it are "pods".

Here's a ring and some pods: https://www.rocketryforum.com/showthread.php?134261-Biohazard-build-thread
 
[video=youtube;WuuGAK6Z1hc]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WuuGAK6Z1hc[/video]
My ring rocket flies amazing. Crashes good too. I really need to work on my recovery systems. Only a 400ft flight on an F50-4. Crashed twice. FIrst crash was a separation of nosecone and body. Second crash it stayed together but the plastic 24" chute I bought was obliterated.

It will fly again.
There are more vids on my youtube channel.
 
Custom ring fins can be made easily with thin plywood. I made a set of rings from 1/64" ply for an upscale Manta Bomber. It helps to have some sort of support, at least while the joints dry.

kj
 

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