Junior HPR
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gothique_97
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I was 15 years old when I first got confirmed [that's what it was called back then, in 1991, and there was only one level]. I think they stopped doing that a year or two later, but I was 'grandfathered' in and got to keep my confirmation status.
MarkABrown
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I've heard rumors that NAR was trying to create a Junior HPR Certification program. I'm pretty sure that the CAR (Canadian Association of Rocketry) has a junior program.
from RMR
Mark
from RMR
Another quote from RMR
And still one more from RMRActually, the NAR is apparently starting work on a Jr HPR program. This was
announced in the "Model Rocketeer." It's easy for those of you who are over 18
and have certification to say minors should not be allowed to certify, and I
don't blame you, I do similar things under many other circumstances. Some of
you had to wait and might think "I had to wait so why shouldn't he?" or
something like that, but my opinion is, that if a minor can score a 100 on the
level 2 test, he/she has every right to certify level 1 and level 2 provided he
can show he has a good understanding of the theory behind rocketry, solid
construction techniques, has already flown G engines many times previously.
Especially when an H128, for example, is really no more dangerous than a G80.
Yes, I know children under 18 can't buy G engines either (though that also is a
pretty bad law IMO) but everyone knows they use them anyway, either bought from
a vendor who knows they are responsible or has their parents buy them. Same
goes for level 1 motors all the time, they are flown as a "team" project with a
certified member providing propulsion and helping to or double checking the
prep procedure. Anyway, I'm starting to go off on a rant but it is a great
thing that NAR is finally looking at a Jr HPR program, and I suggest that any
minors out there as well as adults, e-mail NAR and give opinions to help make
it happen. I hope it becomes effective within the next 2 years, or I will have
already turned 18
Alex Immerman
I think its a good idea with the proper adult supervision.
Mark
PGerringer
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I moved this post to the Coffee House cause it seemed more appropriate for the thread...
I don't see why an under 18 person couldn't get certified. I understand the point about an under 18 not being able to buy the motor. But, if he/she builds the rocket and the parent buys the engine, I don't see why he/she shouldn't be able to do HPR. At that point it would be a partnership between parent and son/daughter. And certification could be achieved. Unfortunately the current rules make this impossible.
I don't see why an under 18 person couldn't get certified. I understand the point about an under 18 not being able to buy the motor. But, if he/she builds the rocket and the parent buys the engine, I don't see why he/she shouldn't be able to do HPR. At that point it would be a partnership between parent and son/daughter. And certification could be achieved. Unfortunately the current rules make this impossible.
MarkABrown
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I like the idea of under 18 being able to fly HPR, at least up to and including H, but, I wouldn't want minors buying HPR motors. As long as there is an adult sponsor who will purchase the motors and supervise the minor, I'm all for a Junior HPR program.
I like the idea that adults purchase the motor(which are certified) and i dont see whats wrong with the experienced person pressing the button. But i dont mind just watching HPR launches I mean what is the difference being there is just the thrill as pushing the button. By friday ill have my pictures i took from the launch i went to!
PGerringer
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True, and nothing prevents you now from building an HPR rocket. Giving the motor money to a certified person. Then you loading it up and launching it. Course, you are still not certified but you are in HPR.
I wonder if there are any laws preventing that. I mean, when I become certified I would buy motors for my son only if I was able to supervise.
I wonder if there are any laws preventing that. I mean, when I become certified I would buy motors for my son only if I was able to supervise.
Hey thats not a bad idea have a bunch of certified people purchase engines and have kids with experience and enjoy it push the button (while suporvised) sry if i spelled suporvised wrong. My pictures will finish today so check tomorrow for pics on the launch or by the end of the day! If anyone lives in AZ please email me @ [email protected]
rstaff3
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First I want to say that a junior HPR system, with adult supervision/participation, sounds great to me. I have no doubt there are many people below 18 who can build an HPR rocket as well or better than I. The issue is largely one of maturity and legal issues with minors. (Hey, there are probably a few people under 18 who are more mature than me too.)
The following are some thoughts on the feasibility of such a system, some of which are questions I have.
Do the laws that prohibit someone under 18 from buying an HPR motor also cover their possession, use etc.? I'm sure this would not be possible for any motor with over 62.5gm of propellant. Note that the whole concept of 'Easy Access' is questionable in this regard. (the latter statement is not intended to spawn a debate of that subject)
As someone noted, if a parent buys the motor, no one will really know if the person under 18 built the rocket and preps it. The adult would probably have to LCO/RSO it with their member number. The minor could certainly set it up at the pad, and the actual button push is generally a LCO function anyway. However, this probably has insurance issues for the individual and the club.
Will this affect the availability/cost of insurance? Due to insurance issues, the adult probably would have to be the minor's legal guardian.
Just my thoughts. I suspect that NAR would be more open to this idea than TRA.
The following are some thoughts on the feasibility of such a system, some of which are questions I have.
Do the laws that prohibit someone under 18 from buying an HPR motor also cover their possession, use etc.? I'm sure this would not be possible for any motor with over 62.5gm of propellant. Note that the whole concept of 'Easy Access' is questionable in this regard. (the latter statement is not intended to spawn a debate of that subject)
As someone noted, if a parent buys the motor, no one will really know if the person under 18 built the rocket and preps it. The adult would probably have to LCO/RSO it with their member number. The minor could certainly set it up at the pad, and the actual button push is generally a LCO function anyway. However, this probably has insurance issues for the individual and the club.
Will this affect the availability/cost of insurance? Due to insurance issues, the adult probably would have to be the minor's legal guardian.
Just my thoughts. I suspect that NAR would be more open to this idea than TRA.
PGerringer
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Fantastic pics. Great launch area too. How many miles is that open?
Hey Guys i was searching on yahoo for junior HPR and triopoli came up here is what i copied about junior HPR: Junior membership.
Receives Tripoli the Netherlands handbook (to be issued) with update service.
Voting right.
Can participate in all activities of Tripoli the Netherlands.
Has input in what activities Tripoli the Netherlands explores.
Must pay an annual fee of fl 40.00
Does not have to be a member of Tripoli USA for insurance and organization purposes, but can become a Junior member of Tripoli USA.
Possibility to built HPR rockets under supervision of a Level 2 member.
Possibility to visit launches.
Possibility to launch a HPR rocket under supervision of a Level 2 member.
Are insured during launches organized by Tripoli the Netherlands under the Tripoli insurance rules.
Has the right to publish on these WebPages.
Can initiate a special project within Tripoli the Netherlands.
Receives Extreme Rocketry Magazine, which is send along members who do not have a subscription.
For Junior members and Students, Tripoli the Netherlands has a special fund, out of this fund projects are sponsored and equipment by the use of these members.
All members of Tripoli the Netherlands receive a handbook that lies the basis for the safety of the hobby for Tripoli the Netherlands. Besides all the info in this book, experienced members help those just starting out in the hobby with advice.
The handbook is updated when changes arise in any of the parts of the Tripoli the Netherlands handbook through an update service for the members, the first issue of the book is set for November 2001.
Basically the handbook covers the following items:
Organization.
Rocket Information.
Publications.
Forms (also issued on floppy disk).
If you want to become a member of Tripoli the Netherlands then you have to fill in this form and send it to the address on the form.
Receives Tripoli the Netherlands handbook (to be issued) with update service.
Voting right.
Can participate in all activities of Tripoli the Netherlands.
Has input in what activities Tripoli the Netherlands explores.
Must pay an annual fee of fl 40.00
Does not have to be a member of Tripoli USA for insurance and organization purposes, but can become a Junior member of Tripoli USA.
Possibility to built HPR rockets under supervision of a Level 2 member.
Possibility to visit launches.
Possibility to launch a HPR rocket under supervision of a Level 2 member.
Are insured during launches organized by Tripoli the Netherlands under the Tripoli insurance rules.
Has the right to publish on these WebPages.
Can initiate a special project within Tripoli the Netherlands.
Receives Extreme Rocketry Magazine, which is send along members who do not have a subscription.
For Junior members and Students, Tripoli the Netherlands has a special fund, out of this fund projects are sponsored and equipment by the use of these members.
All members of Tripoli the Netherlands receive a handbook that lies the basis for the safety of the hobby for Tripoli the Netherlands. Besides all the info in this book, experienced members help those just starting out in the hobby with advice.
The handbook is updated when changes arise in any of the parts of the Tripoli the Netherlands handbook through an update service for the members, the first issue of the book is set for November 2001.
Basically the handbook covers the following items:
Organization.
Rocket Information.
Publications.
Forms (also issued on floppy disk).
If you want to become a member of Tripoli the Netherlands then you have to fill in this form and send it to the address on the form.
Heres thoughts on the Junior HPR:
First of all, I pretty much agree that anyone with the necessary skills,
> regardless of age, is capable of constructing an HPR rocket. Ditto for
> gaining the knowledge required for HPR activities. I know one "junior" who
> already has his L1 cert ship ready to go. All he needs right now is the
> age
> requirement, and a pass mark on his exam.
>
> That said, I'm not sure about this re-cert after becoming a senior member.
> As I see it, if a junior is certified to fly HPR but can't build his own
> motors, where is the incentive for him to upgrade to a senior cert if that
> is the only difference? By simply flying under the aegis of their Junior
> cert level, they can do HPR, and have the motor assembled by an expert!
> Kinda takes some of the pressure off the flyer, and dumps it on the RSO
> (who is already plenty busy).
>
> Finally, teenagers are an impatient lot (from what I recall, anyway!). By
> giving them an "in" to HPR, you deprive them of the chance to fully
> explore
> low- and mid-power rocketry. Lets face it- the first time you see a big
> motor go, it gets the adrenaline pumping. One exposure to HPR, and most
> kids aren't going to be interested in the other stuff, if they can do the
> HPR thing too. There is a lot you can do and learn with the smaller stuff
> (I know I'm still learning & enjoying, after 25 years). We don't need to
> give them another distraction.
>
> I firmly think that we need to consider any idea that may increase
> interest
> in the hobby at any level. However, consider this: There is currently
> nothing that would stop a Junior from constructing an HPR rocket, taking
> to
> to a launch, and handing it over to an adult to fly on their behalf. it is
> still *their* rocket, but the responsibility for its flight is on the
> shoulders of the adult who takes it to the RSO table, not the actual
> owner/builder.
This is not said by me i copied it from a club on yahoo (there haveing the same talk) (but ours is cooler)
First of all, I pretty much agree that anyone with the necessary skills,
> regardless of age, is capable of constructing an HPR rocket. Ditto for
> gaining the knowledge required for HPR activities. I know one "junior" who
> already has his L1 cert ship ready to go. All he needs right now is the
> age
> requirement, and a pass mark on his exam.
>
> That said, I'm not sure about this re-cert after becoming a senior member.
> As I see it, if a junior is certified to fly HPR but can't build his own
> motors, where is the incentive for him to upgrade to a senior cert if that
> is the only difference? By simply flying under the aegis of their Junior
> cert level, they can do HPR, and have the motor assembled by an expert!
> Kinda takes some of the pressure off the flyer, and dumps it on the RSO
> (who is already plenty busy).
>
> Finally, teenagers are an impatient lot (from what I recall, anyway!). By
> giving them an "in" to HPR, you deprive them of the chance to fully
> explore
> low- and mid-power rocketry. Lets face it- the first time you see a big
> motor go, it gets the adrenaline pumping. One exposure to HPR, and most
> kids aren't going to be interested in the other stuff, if they can do the
> HPR thing too. There is a lot you can do and learn with the smaller stuff
> (I know I'm still learning & enjoying, after 25 years). We don't need to
> give them another distraction.
>
> I firmly think that we need to consider any idea that may increase
> interest
> in the hobby at any level. However, consider this: There is currently
> nothing that would stop a Junior from constructing an HPR rocket, taking
> to
> to a launch, and handing it over to an adult to fly on their behalf. it is
> still *their* rocket, but the responsibility for its flight is on the
> shoulders of the adult who takes it to the RSO table, not the actual
> owner/builder.
This is not said by me i copied it from a club on yahoo (there haveing the same talk) (but ours is cooler)
Klint
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you dont have to type so big but I had a long conversation with the people at rec.model.rockets and the all felt pretty strongly about this subject twards not allowing minors to certify and they came up with dern good reasons to but good luck trying to finde it I think it was titled certification.
P.S I am growended and sneeking on-line so I may not post for a while
P.S I am growended and sneeking on-line so I may not post for a while
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