Modified "Big Daddy"

I've been keeping my eye open when I'm out-and-about for another Estes Big Daddy. I read in the rec.model.rocketry newsgroup about some people who have launched the Big Daddy with E engines. So, I'm planning to use an E engine in my current Big Daddy, and when I find and build another, I'll try to modify it to use a 29mm motor so I can try some F and G engines. I'm also planning on getting some supplies from Pratt Hobbies ( Pratt Hobbies ) such as a microbeacon to make recovery easier, some tubular Kevlar for a shock cord (because I always seem to be melting my shock cord) and a Heatshield parachute protector to substitute for recovery wadding. Let me know if anyone has done something similar to this. I'd like to hear your experiences.

Mark

I just posted about the Mean Machine II but I didn't put that much thought into it. Gosh, I just know it, it is gonna crash and burn. Well, I guess I will lauch with a few Ds cause I know I can recover that. Then say goodbye with an E.

Mark,
You don't have to build your Bid Daddy with a 29MM motor mount! Do what I did, just make a 24 a little longer, and use the AT RMS 24/40, you can get reloads in D's, E's, and F's, for it. If you'd like a pic, of course it'll be the 'after' pic, after I had a nozzle blow out, I'd be happy to send ya one.
I did however use bass wood for the centering rings, instead of the paper that comes with the kit. And, I used PMR, positive motor retention, which got messed up pretty bad when the nozzle left the casing. But, it will be an easy fix, already have another RMS (Bought from wildhobbies.com, cheapest online I could find), and will fly again.

That's interesting. I never thought about getting a 24mm RMS engine. I know I've seen them listed before, but I never thought about buying one. I'm relatively new in rocketry but I'm gaining ground fast. I'll need to look into that option.

Thanks,
Mark

PS. I'd like to hear more about the modifications to your Big Daddy and I'm sure the rest of the list would also.

More info... yes... I feel like a dang sponge here. Soaking up everything. Problem is I want to try it all... and now!

I have heard of an fat boy being used for L1 cert. But i have seen an moydifyde fat boy on an L motor

Ok, details...

The mods I made were MINOR mods, and I mentioned them earlier.

Instead of the paper motor mounts that come with the Big Daddy, I just went and bought some Basswood at a local hobby shop, and used them. Now, on the inside, I used a small eye hook attached with nuts and a washer to the top motor mount. Then, using some 3/8" braided elastic I bought from WalMart, about 4 feet, but 6 would have been better, I tied the nose cone to one end, and the other end fastened to my eye hook. Then, I spent some big money, $14.00, on a Public Missiles, (I think, there are two brands out there) Positive Motor Retention, PMR, system. This is basically a motor holder, that is much more secure than the Estes, or Aerotech "Hook". You actually put two screw recievers in your bottom centering ring, then this thing has two screws you use to fasten the circular holder to the frame of the actual motor. I already had the system, as I used it in my Minnie-Mag for certifying, so there wasn't any money spent on it for the Big Daddy. Oh, did I mention that I made the actual 24MM motor tube from an index card? Real easy to do, and works very well. You take an index card, using Elmer's white glue, roll it around any 24MM motor, a D, or your brand new RMS. Then, remove the motor, after the glue has started to set, don't want to make a mess of a perfectly good motor do we? Let it dry, and BOOM! Instant motor mount tube. Or you could just go buy one, and cut it long. Anyway, I then use the stock forward motor stop, usually a little green deal, make sure it's far enough forward to accept your LONGEST motor, and there ya go. Saved yourself a total of probably $1.00. (every little bit counts, dont it?)

Ok, so, there ya have it, very MINOR and SIMPLE modifications. Of course I used 5 minute epoxy EVERYWHERE, (except the motor tube), and before putting the bottom centering ring, run a bead of internal fin filets, can never get those fins too strong. : )

Now, if you want some finishing tips, you can either troll RMR, like I did, or I'd be happy to throw some of them at ya too!

Hey Mark, I think you know that you and I probably don't live 5 miles from each other. If you want to see the 24mm RMS hardware, give me a call this weekend and we'll make arrangements on when you can drop by to take a look at it. Depending on the time and the weather (it's supposed to thunderstorm this weekend - bummer) we might even make a quick field trip to Piney Grove or Cash Elementary schools and launch a modified Estes Invader I have on the 24mm RMS. It's really cool on D's, E's, and F's !!

Of course, at the same time, you can also look at the 18mm, 29mm 40/120, 32mm, and the bigger 29mm / 38mm / 54mm RMS hardware that I have.

You can also see some of the PMR hardware that has been referenced.

I'll send you an e-mail with my phone number.

Ken,
That sounds fantastic! I'd love to see your setup. Unless you've changed your phone number recently, I think I've found your number on the web. If you like, you could send a Private Message through the message board to me. I'll give you a call tomorrow and see if we can work out a time.

Thanks again,
Mark

I have flown my STOCK Big Daddy on an E28, E18 and F39 (although the F39 didn't ejection...the rest of the story is scrunched together if you get my drift)

- Nick

OUCH! Those ejectionless launches can be pretty ugly. I've been thinking about adding a little garden spade to my rocketry box so I can dig my rocket out of the ground when this happens.

Milo..
You think a model rocket is bad on a lawn dart you should see the video I've got of a rocket that came in ballist and they dug 20 ft. down with a backhole, never did find the whole rocket.. just a few parts...

Well, I bit the bullet and ordered a new Big Daddy and an Aerotech 24/40 24mm RMS motor with a pack of E18-4W reloads last night. Now, I just sit back and wait for it all to arrive. Of course, the entire time I'll be wracking my brain on how to build it. Stock motor mounts or do I beef them up? Epoxy or CyA? Do I glass the fins or no? Decisions, decisions...

Mark

Me, I wouldn't modify the Big Daddy except in the following THREE ways:

1) Take the supplied elastic shock cord (36") and attach to the NC, then attached a Kevlar line that is 24-36" to that, then attach that to the rocket. The instructions say to hook it to the upper centering ring

2) When building the Motor mount file or grid off HALF the length of the motor hook that sticks into the upper part of the motor mount (up by the thrust ring). Then test fit it with you RMS 24mm case. The standard length is just enough to prevent the ejection cap of the RMS case from sliding nicely into the thrust ring hole.

3) Soak your Centering Rings in CA or put a coat of epoxy on them

Have, fun

Nick

Thanks for the advice. I had already decided on the first two. I was looking for opinions on the centering rings though. I like that idea. The jury's still out on the rest.

My Big Daddy got modified by Mother Earth on Sunday. No ejection charge. Missed a row of cars by less than ten feet. I'm still all clenched up. Couldn't pass a straight pin if my life depended on it. (There are no Smilies for clenched up. Shame.) (Close enough.)

No Ejection on an F39

Okay. I guess that makes mine a "slightly" modified Big Daddy. Ouch!

Wow, EMRR. I bet the second flight of that Big Daddy isn't going to be as aerodynamic as the first. It looks like it was beautiful going up.

I've begun building the new Big Daddy. I began by creating some beefier centering rings using 1/8" Basswood (thanks Phil for the use of the tools). I then filed the upper tab on the engine hook so it wouldn't interfere with my new Aerotech 24mm RMS engine. Then, I cut the fin slots on the body tube all the way to the bottom of the tube so I could build the entire fin can outside the body tube. This way, I can add much internal reinforcement as necessary and then just slide the fin can into the body tube and epoxy in place. Check out the photos. More to follow.

Mark

Centering Rings
Fin Can 1
Fin Can 2

The new Big Daddy is finished! It's going to make its maiden flight tomorrow on an E18-7W. So, I figured that today is a good day to take some pictures of the finished model.

Big Daddy
Big Daddy from the rear

Great Look'n Rocket Mark... I really like the diffrent color sceam. Should be a good flight.. I'd have to vote on a flight with a F24w motor.. should be cool with just over a 2 sec. burn.
I am currently working on a Big Daddy with a 29mm motor mount.. should be done with in the week. I'll post some pic's when I get some take'n....
Let us know how it flyies...

I'll definately post a report of how it flys. And if I'm too slow, I'm sure that Phil and Craig/Milo will jump in here. (Especially if I crash-and-burn)

Mark

You better believe we will Mark...

It looks beautiful. I can't wait to see it tomorrow if the weather shapes up. I will make sure to make plenty of before and after pics.

You bet. You guys have been giving so much grief about my little jaunt into R/C planes that I will not be able to hold back.

That is fine Lookeing rocket ya got there.

Here are some better pictures of Mark and his rocket...

https://scooby.cybergatetech.com/Projects/Rocketry/Pictures/launch 10-07-01/img_0824.jpg

https://scooby.cybergatetech.com/Projects/Rocketry/Pictures/launch 10-07-01/img_0825.jpg

Enjoy...

How was the rest of the flight?? The take off obuviously good.

It was a very nice flight. Mark, wanna tell about your landing?

On the first flight, I'm estimating it reached an altitude of about 600-800 feet. It was a perfect ejection at just past apogee with a slightly nose down attitude. The chute inflated fairly fast but the rocket descended faster than I had expected. This turned out to be a blessing because it landed about 100 yards from the pad. Since I beefed up the construction, it was able to handle the harder landings of an increased descent. No Damage! On the second flight, the takeoff was again beautiful but, it did climb away from our landing area and over some houses. About the same height as the last launch but, this one ejected closer to apogee. The descent was about the same but, the "pucker factor" was much greater due to the proximity of the houses. The rocket touched down in someone's front yard with all four fins touching the ground at the exact same time! It landed like it was ready to be launched again! Again, No Damage! All in all, a very successful first day of flights.