cesaroni vs aerotech

I took a look through some online catalogs and it appears that Cesaroni casings and reloads are on average less expensive than Aerotech ones, but that could have been a factor of the particular store or products I was looking at. Is there any overarching theme or reason to choose between the two? Does one do a better job in a particular impulse range than the other, or any other differences like that?

I am mostly looking in the 29mm and 38mm, L1 and possibly L2 ranges. For my mid power flights I have an Aerotech kit and the 29/40-120 seems like a natural and obvious choice, although it looks like Cesaroni makes some good options there too?

CTI loads all carry haz mat fees. The AT F loads for the 29/40-120 do as well, but the E's dont, almost all G's don't, and all but one of the AT 29mm high power loads don't.

CTI is easier to build, but I've never had a hard time building AT loads.

AT loads are typically less expensive than CTI in 29/38mm ranges.

CTI 38's don't have a rear closure as part of the case. It's plastic and comes as part of the reload. It works if done right. I've seen a lot of them cross threaded and cause rear burnthroughs and fail. Opinions vary, but I'm not a fan of the design.


as for which to get..... well I couldn't decide. this was my solution.

That reminds me, I have to start thinking motors for next spring.

Loki is awesome unless you are in California, where they're not allowed.

The 38mm line is an awesome deal with some heavy hitting G through I motors that ship without the extra hazmat charges. It's a great complement for the 29/40-120.

CarVac said:

Loki is awesome unless you are in California, where they're not allowed.

The 38mm line is an awesome deal with some heavy hitting G through I motors that ship without the extra hazmat charges. It's a great complement for the 29/40-120.

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I see myself buying a TON of loki 38 for next summer. If I had it to do over again, it's all I'd buy. (and of course the 29/ 40-120)
https://lokiresearch.com/secure/store.asp?groupid=831200410431019

I think the primary factor to consider is WHAT CAN YOU BUY AT YOUR FIELD?

We are lucky to have multiple great suppliers for motors, there's a lot of choice, but what is the choice from your on-site vendor? Buy whatever they sell. Support them. Make it easy for them to keep showing up.

-Carl

Look at the prices at Balsa Machining for Aerotech and then come back and say CTI is cheaper. Pre-order prices at BM are very hard to beat, and those are the 24/7/365 prices. It took all of three weeks to get my pre-order last time, and BM can ship to your door if you don't have a vendor easily available.

Wildman's Thanksgiving sales beat BM by a small bit. For mid-power, Wildman has the best prices. Both beat CTI prices by a wide margin, comparing similar class engines.

When I was looking at 29mm options some time back, it looked like CTI hardware was cheaper than AT, but the reloads were not. In fact, some CTI reloads were not much less than comparable AT Single-Use motors, while AT reloads are much cheaper than AT SU motors. I still haven't decided and am flying single use for now.

AT is cheaper on the small stuff up to 29mm for reloads. Not sure on 38mm and above.
CTI is easier to build. CTI light easier / faster / cluster and stage easier due to there pellet.

Starting over, I'd probably go AT Hobbyline and DMS for the bigger (the extra $5 per load is worth no case to load / clean / lose). Maybe give Loki as shot. Latest inventory suggests, I do not need to buy reloads for a couple years.

90% of the 38mm and all the 54mm plus I fly are research, except for some great yard sale items from locals.

cvanc said:

I think the primary factor to consider is WHAT CAN YOU BUY AT YOUR FIELD?

We are lucky to have multiple great suppliers for motors, there's a lot of choice, but what is the choice from your on-site vendor? Buy whatever they sell. Support them. Make it easy for them to keep showing up.

-Carl

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That is a fantastic point that I will be keeping in mind as I move to these bigger motors.

I'm glad this thread came up.
On Wildman's home page (scroll down a bit) he's got an add that says 40% off on AT Hobbyline.
I'm just starting (again) to figure out this reloadable engine stuff.
The more input the better I feel, there is so many variations out there, one is easily confussed and overwhelmed.
I do have a question....
(not to bust in on your thread WMM)
If every flight goes without a hitch, how long does a typical 29 or 38mm case last? # of flights? years? Times used?
Might help to know the longevity of each case and figure in replacement cost vs how often. (If need be)

cvanc said:

I think the primary factor to consider is WHAT CAN YOU BUY AT YOUR FIELD?

We are lucky to have multiple great suppliers for motors, there's a lot of choice, but what is the choice from your on-site vendor? Buy whatever they sell. Support them. Make it easy for them to keep showing up.

-Carl

Click to expand...

+1

This is the way to decide.


Sent from my iPhone using Rocketry Forum

If you clean the cases after every flight, you can get several flights out of the cases.

Woody's Workshop said:

I'm glad this thread came up.
On Wildman's home page (scroll down a bit) he's got an add that says 40% off on AT Hobbyline.
I'm just starting (again) to figure out this reloadable engine stuff.
The more input the better I feel, there is so many variations out there, one is easily confussed and overwhelmed.
I do have a question....
(not to bust in on your thread WMM)
If every flight goes without a hitch, how long does a typical 29 or 38mm case last? # of flights? years? Times used?
Might help to know the longevity of each case and figure in replacement cost vs how often. (If need be)

Click to expand...

Taken care of they last as long as your going to fly them. I have 22 year old AT cases that say Industrial Solid Propulsion and have no hesitation using them today.

The decision for me, at least for my first two flights, was decided by CTI's certification sale. Getting the cases free made the choice easy.

I'm a solid fan of Aerotech... their reloadables is what drew me back into rocketry (BAR) circa 1997. To me, the relaods that CTI offer are great, but the reloading of their hardware is a throwback to singleuse. Relaoding to me, is so much more an immersive part of the hobby.

DRAGON64 said:

I'm a solid fan of Aerotech... their reloadables is what drew me back into rocketry (BAR) circa 1997. To me, the relaods that CTI offer are great, but the reloading of their hardware is a throwback to singleuse. Relaoding to me, is so much more an immersive part of the hobby.

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I agree, there is a certain amount of satisfaction watching a successful flight on a motor you assembled. There is also a certain amount of consternation if you make a mistake. :tongue: In the first one, I forgot the cardboard liner. In the second, I forgot one of the o-rings.

qquake2k said:

I agree, there is a certain amount of satisfaction watching a successful flight on a motor you assembled.

Click to expand...

+ 100

Nate

As long as you do have not have a cato the cases will last as long as you want to use them.

DRAGON64 said:

I'm a solid fan of Aerotech... their reloadables is what drew me back into rocketry (BAR) circa 1997. To me, the relaods that CTI offer are great, but the reloading of their hardware is a throwback to singleuse. Relaoding to me, is so much more an immersive part of the hobby.

Click to expand...

I started out with CTI but lately I have become slightly bored with them. I tried my first Aerotech RMS last weekend a loved it. I have always secretly envied the guys that actually assembled their motors, it looked kinda fun so I ordered a 29/120 case to give motor building a shot. I am hooked! While I won't get rid of my CTI 29mm 3 grain case, I don't see myself flying it much anymore unless I want to fly a skid or something.

I like building Aerotech motors but I commend them for making the. Easier to build. They are becoming almost as. Easy to build as CTI.

I love the diversity of motors available from CTI.

I use both.

I traded in all my AT casings for CTI/Animal. I'm not too worried about the reload cost, but I hated spending so much time assembling & loading the AT kits.
I use a lot of the AT single use for smaller E/F motors, but the ease of assembly with the CTI 24 & 29 won me over.
Also, Animal Motor Works is at most of the launches I attend.

I really only have experience with Aerotech. I have the CTI pro38 starter set, and have flown on an H100 Imax and an H225 but due to no local vendor at our site and the no hazmat fee on most Aerotech 29mm reloads.. it's an obvious choice that I fly Aerotech. However, I recently started attending another club a few times out of the year with an on site vendor so things may change... we will have to see. I havn't decided what direction i'm going to go as I begin to get into 38mm and 54mm motors as I go for my level 2 soon.

terryg said:

Do not have a cato.

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Solid plan there.

I fly both, but prefer CTI. Actually, I fly <=38mm AT and >=54mm CTI with a little crossover.

Milage may vary, but for me AT is generally lower cost than CTI on a reload cost basis. Having said that, you can often get a free CTI case with your certification reload. I have never been sure what might still need purchased (if anything) aside from perhaps spacers. (You can put two spacers in and thus cover the range of a given diameter with two cases.

Now I can buy AT motors local at either launches or meetings so that seals the deal for me. While I haven't yet reloaded a high power without supervision, I think it will come easily enough. A few loads of the 29/40-120 and it became natural for me.

And wouldn't want to short change Loki, though their reloads seem to not be as varied in the power range I am flying now.


Kirk

As others have stated I use both Areotech and CTI. I'm fortunate my local vendor sells both. From a pricing standpoint, IMHO the hobby line reloads from Aerotech are less than CTI. For other sizes I don't think there is a huge difference when factoring in case cost and closures.

I like the motor assembly part but I also like a wide variety of options. When it comes to winter time up here in Wisconsin, I almost exclusively use CTI as my hands don't get as cold building a motor. I feel less likely to make a mistake because of cold hands.

I fly CTI pretty much exclusively as that's what our club flies mostly. plus I like the variety and ease of use. I'd like to try Aerotech RMS (I've flown their SU before) one day when funds permit.

FWIW, I do not think one is safer or less CATO prone than the other. Just our little rocket family has seen two CATOs from each brand since 2007.

While AT intimidated me early on, and I still follow the instructions each time, they are so easy now that I wonder what the early fuss was about. Now I find it comforting to personally place each component in the right place rather than taking a motor out of a tube and slapping it into a rocket with blind faith. Aerotech RMS-EZ is a great middle ground step between the easiest but expensive single use and reload spectrum--they go together in 1-2 minutes at the same, lower reload price.

All AT from double set of all 3 hobby line motors, 2 29/180 and 29/240. 38mm from the 240 case to the 720 and a full J 54mm motor. I do have one CTI motor, a 4 grain 75mm. I bought the case here in the Yard Sale and just got the enclosure set from Wildman. Hope to burn a load next year at XPRS for my 3rd level.