SARA/ SOUTHERN ARIZONA ROCKETRY ASSOCIATION

Does anyone have Pyrogen I can dip some starters in for an Airstart? I can buy some but considering I have zero interest in making my own starters it would be pointless.

Just trying to get the word out that SARA needs volunteers to sign up for Desert Heat...or it might not happen.

https://m.signupgenius.com/#!/showSignUp/30e0c44aba622abf58-desert

👆This is the link to sign up from the SARA website.

Done

SARA will be hosting a NAR sanctioned competition at the SARA launch site at 3580 N Reservation Rd Marana AZ 85653 featuring the following events:

• C Parachute Duration
• Predicted Altitude (preferably using a certified altimeter AND a Jolly Logic Altimeter 3)
• Open Spot Landing

With a special award for completing all events with the same rocket.

NAR membership required to compete. If you're not a member, please join NAR first, and let us know your membership number.

Registration Now open! Please pre-regiser for free!

Curious about these events? Take a look over the National Association of Rocketry Competition Guide.

Interested in Details? See the official rules book.

All NAR members are welcome to compete, and anyone is welcome to come watch!

No waiver, so no high power motors today.

Thanks, AZRxocket! That Desert Heat Signup Genius link in your post somehow formats the signup page oddly. The link below formats everything in a more readable fashion. Please, folks, if you value Desert Heat, please sign up for a shift or two to help us pull it all together!

https://www.signupgenius.com/go/30e0c44aba622abf58-desert

James Cramton
L1 Madcow Sea Wolf I297
L2 Apogee Level 2 J430

I have a couple of questions for the SARA board:
If the club is going to be doing NAR competition launches, will they alternate Saturday and Sunday like the club launches?
Will non-competition flyers get to launch on the same days as the competition fliers?
The reason for my question is that I am a TRA member and prefer Saturday over Sunday for launching because of the distance I travel to and from the far East end of Tucson.
Also, is the club considering a dedicated "L" pad?

We alternate because some people work on Saturday or Sunday. Which field we launching at tommorrow.

SARA field

For the L pad. See below from Miles.

"While SARA doesn't have a heavy pad for L rockets, I bring mine to every launch.*(I'll set it up if asked.)* It will handle up to a 75# rocket and has a 12' 1515 rail.* I also bring an extension cable*to use SARA's red box from the K pad and my commercial UHF system with a range of up to 1100'.* Which will be available*for Desert Heat.

There is a spot marked beyond the K*pad*that we use for L*rockets although it is difficult to clear that much*dried vegetation around it (100' in each direction)*and*an L sparky motor would never be an option (150' in each direction). *"

Thanks for all you do Miles

FYI We have two high power vendor visits in the next few months!

In February we have Gloria and Robert from Amw Prox coming out. You can order from them on www.amwprox.com, place "Hold for SARA" in the note field and select "Hold for Pickup". They will also have a large selection on hand if you prefer to shop at the site. 75mm and 98mm engines please call Gloria at 603-566-2904.

At Desert Heat we will have Mike from Bay Area Rocketry. You need to order ASAP for CTI reloads to male sure he brings enough stock. Go to www.bayarearocketry.com and place "SARA Desert Heat" in notes after selecting Launch Pickup. Mikes number is 510-461-0863.

Hello friends.
Its been some time since I've posted. Done a little traveling and thanks to my good friend Brett( who gave me an awesome Christmas gift) I've almost completed my first all fiberglass build. Dual deploy Mini DX3 from Madcow. Its been a fun and learning experience. Full DD . purchased a 38mm sled and battery holder from MissileWorks for the RRC2+ altimeter.Very cool. We expect to fly first flight Tues.at our site.F52 or G64.. Not decided yet. I lean toward the G. The quality of this kit is A-1. Brett also included an Aero Pack 29mm retainer.2 chutes and chute protectors.weighs in at 2lbs with aG64 no paint ..H180 in the future??? Heck yes!!! Will have to be at the SARA field
Anyway.....Hello all. Have super fun flying and stay safe.

Nice Ed.

I'm sure Brett told you but amw is coming to the club launch if you need stuff. If you are working either him or I could pick stuff up for you.

I have Mondays off now, if you have a launch on a Monday sometime I might be able to come out.

I have added an av bay to my 429ss if you want to drag race with airstarts one of these days.

Evilash said:

Nice Ed.

I'm sure Brett told you but amw is coming to the club launch if you need stuff. If you are working either him or I could pick stuff up for you.

I have Mondays off now, if you have a launch on a Monday sometime I might be able to come out.

I have added an av bay to my 429ss if you want to drag race with airstarts one of these days.

Click to expand...

Right on Randy!!!
questions... of coarse....How far down did you put the AV bay?
Did you add any length to the rocket?
Is the 4-29 set up now for DD as well as airstarts?
What are you using for electronics?
and last but not least.. What motors?
LOL seriously-when I read you did that to your 4-29 it put a big smile on my face..

I added the av bay above the motor tubes. It is not dual deploy, it is electronics single ejection to be used with a chute release. The altimeter is a RCC3, so I can airstart 2 of the motors. I tried it last launch but used the wrong starters.

Ill try it again this month. I put it in the air with G250's and airstart sparkies or smokeys. At least that is the plan.

I did not add length, it is already too freaking heavy lol.

Ok...drag racing 429's has me feeling old and young again at the same time lol! But, as I'm studying up on NAR's TSO material...it got me thinking as well. If the planned flight is 2 x G250-VM's at launch, then air starting, say 2 x G106-SK's. That would be around 493.8 N-s's ( safely into I class power). I know it (by itself) would have to have 200ft min personal safe distance. My question is 2 part: 1. Would you need 50ft or 75ft of area cleared around the pad? (Does it matter where or when the spark inducing motors are lit?) HPR code just says "if the motor being "launched" contains titanium sponge...increase by factor of 1.5". Does that still apply if the sparky part of the cluster is started at 600ft in the air? Secondly...how much room do we need to have if launching 2 of these at the same time? My copy of NFPA is from 2008, and I can't find anything in there addressing a simultaneous launch of 2, complex, spark inducing cluster HPR's. Whew...that said...who's bringing the popcorn? I want a front row seat to this race!

Well isn't that a great question for the nar Facebook page. I have no clue! I also don't know if ed has a rcc3 or a timer to do the airstarts. Although that is a problem solved with a credit card lol. I have a timer I never use.

He's got both a timer and rrc2 I think. He's not a CTI fan (yet)...but I'm sure AT would have similar loads to present the same issue.

Rrc2 does not do airstarts. The timer would work though. AT reloads are not great at airstarts.

A lot of thought needs to go into this for sure. Personal safety distances should be at the least 50% more or doubled. Im sure we can get all the numbers somewhere. My first thought for motors (just to get a taste of airstarting which ive never done ) is 2 G64w and airstart 2 Estes F15 motors. I don't see a problem airstarting Aeotech motors using low current starters like the Q2G2 with a piece of Blue Thunder propellant attatched. My timer will handle that. But a timer presents other problems(safety) but Ill get that figured out. A drag race with 2 4-29SS will be very cool airstarting in the mix will be AWESOME..I am going to fly a couple airstarts first though to get my feet wet.....

ClusterFire (CF) Pyrogen Kit

https://rocketflite.com/

Using these igniters with the top of the grain painted with pyrogen gives the nearest thing to instant on that I have seen for clusters.

For really insane clusters:

https://www.bpasa.com/index.htm

Terry,

Gloria and Robert are bringing me some pyrogen, I know that is really important for airstarts and staging which I have projects going on both.

Ed,

We can ask Steve l, he is probably the best person to ask at Sara. I'll shoot him a note.

I went out today for the first flight of my DX3 mini. I chose the F52 . my reload was a 11 sec delay and I drilled it to a 9. This would have been great but as I assembled the reload I noticed the delay spacer did not fit right and the grain seemed to small for a 11 second grain. I used a spare spacer I had to get the right fit. My feeling was that the delay was a 7 or even a 5. After some investigating (after flight) turns out I had a 5second grain and a 7second spacer. So my 2 second drill made a 3 second delay....not good my DX3 flew straight and was cooking along pretty good when drogue blew by motor eject. Ripping the drogue off the kevlar cord. The main blew at 300' as it should so it all came in safe. My mirage flew straight and true as usual for that bird but it did find a stand of jumping cactus to lay across . But still I had a great day out there. Beautiful flying weather ,green desert and fresh air. Dx3 gets a G next time...side note..is so awesome out here. It would be great to get a few flyers out .BBQ and spend a few hrs flying and cooking up some dogs.weather is perfect.

Evilash said:

Well isn't that a great question for the nar Facebook page. I have no clue! I also don't know if ed has a rcc3 or a timer to do the airstarts. Although that is a problem solved with a credit card lol. I have a timer I never use.

Click to expand...

Here is what I think I will do first. Ive flown my 4-29SS on a Aerotech 2-G64W (no ejection) and 2 Estes F15-8 configuration. It was very cool. I used the Estes for ejection. I used 2 sets of igniter wires. I set off the Aerotech motors first. I heard the igniters pop and set off the Estes motors. I used no simulations to come to the conclusion . Just knowing how these motors come up and how fast . The Aerotech taking a second and Estes being instant on. Worked perfect. Awesome flight. This is not something I would do at a club launch. Also some others pointed out that this was a "High Power " launch due to weight of the rocket and the total propellant weight. Neverthless--It was perfect. A good motor combo for my first air start. Im going to build compartments that will stick out of the rocket a little. on the outside of the MMT's and right under the lower airframe. And guides for the igniters. No DD , the altitude is going to be about 2500'(estimate from previous flt) I will fire the composites on the pad and light the Estes motors 2sec off the pad. After this success I move on to lighting 2 composite F motors as air starts. With the goal being 2G's on the pad and 2G's air starting . Then if its not tooo crazy, 2 H115 or 2 H135 to 2 F or G composites with Dual Deploy.. yes 2H motors in the SS would be really cool by themselves/ needing DD . My thought though is Its TOOO crazy.

By what means-Randy_ are you going to protect any exposed igniter wires for your air starts from the fire and heat of the ground starts ??

In the first pic if you can zoom in-you can see all four lit. The second and third if you can zoom you can clearly see 4 burning- I lit the 4Estes F15-8/ and you can see what happened. All lit but ended in a land shark due to the wires not disconnecting and not being secured to the pad.

Also--what do think,,First drag race 2G and 2F motors just to break the ice? Or is that too mellow ?

I also wonder if Brett is ready for a Madcow mini DX3 drag race ?

Well I was going to do 2 g250s to 2 g88s this weekend but my rcc3 is dead for some reason. I was loading the av bay after loading the settings using the dongle and now it will not turn on for some reason. I am very disappointed. For the exhaust gasses I flew it with the starters just exposed and it did not melt but that was with Vmax engines. With the av bay and single electronics ejection is the design. It weighs 7 pounds loaded which is insane and why I need VMax g s to get it in the air.

Evilash said:

Well I was going to do 2 g250s to 2 g88s this weekend but my rcc3 is dead for some reason. I was loading the av bay after loading the settings using the dongle and now it will not turn on for some reason. I am very disappointed. For the exhaust gasses I flew it with the starters just exposed and it did not melt but that was with Vmax engines. With the av bay and single electronics ejection is the design. It weighs 7 pounds loaded which is insane and why I need VMax g s to get it in the air.

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WWOOWW!!! Thats a lot of lift power. A short explosion off the pad and a smooth long burn after its moving. My first thought is that youre going to have the timer light the lighters for the G88's at the moment of lift-off or within a second...is that right? How ever you do it ..I would like to see it. I hadn't thought of going that radical with mine as I didn't build it for anything more than 2G80's burning at once but im sure it could handle 2 H115 motors. What altitude do you expect with that combo? And what combo's/results have you had so far? And what got the weight up like that?

Well last month was the test and I used 2 g53s but I used the wrong starters so they did not light. The 2 g250s for it up to 700 feet or so. The Sims had it around 1500. When i get it back together I'll weigh it again but I think it's the 4 motors and cases and the av bay is heavy as it's from a glr vertical assault. I'll have it at the 3/15 launch as Jim from missile works is going to look at the rcc3. I am also going to buy a spare one as the disappointment is high that I can't launch it tomorrow. The timer is set at 1 second after launch in the rcc3.

Evilash said:

I added the av bay above the motor tubes. It is not dual deploy, it is electronics single ejection to be used with a chute release. The altimeter is a RCC3, so I can airstart 2 of the motors. I tried it last launch but used the wrong starters.

Ill try it again this month. I put it in the air with G250's and airstart sparkies or smokeys. At least that is the plan.

I did not add length, it is already too freaking heavy lol.

View attachment 281755

Click to expand...

I hadn't looked at this pic of yours closely till now. That is really cool. what motors are burning there. I think I see mach diamonds when zoomed in.

Any pics from today?

Those were the g250s. I put some pics on the Sara facebook page but I spent 3 hours in the desert looking for a rocket so I did not get many

What was the projected altitude on the I55 mellow flight (a 7.5 sec burn is pretty impressive)? I lost it at apogee and it seemed to be really up there. What was the carrier used on the cell phone tracker? Art has a couple of carbon fiber rockets that are still out there. A lot of lost ones are found at Desert Heat by individuals searching for their own birds.