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Another victim of grumpy old man syndrome. If it's new, it must suck.

And lets talk about cars a bit. For the hell of it, I decided to do some research.

1971 basic Ford Mustang coupe, starting MSRP - $2,911
1971 basic Ford Mustang coupe, MSRP adjusted to 2014 - $17,108
2015 basic Ford Mustang coupe, starting MSRP - $23,600

Hmmm...my math shows the Mustang is only beating inflation by maybe 40 percent. Hardly 3 or 4 times the price.

1971 Chevy Impala hardtop sedan MSRP - $3400
1971 Chevy Impala hardtop sedan, MSRP adjusted for 2014 - $19982
2015 Chevy Impala sedan MSRP - $27700

Huh...grocery getter sedan is also about 40 percent higher than inflation.

1971 Honda Civic (600) MSRP - $1395
1971 Honda Civic MSRP adjusted to 2014 - $8198
2015 Honda Civic MSRP - $18190

Okay, now we're talkin! Over double the price!

But wait, there's more...lets talk specs!

1971 Civic
4 Speed 4 cyl - 36 Horsepower
MPG - 31.6
Length, in. 125.0
Width, in. 52.5
Height, in. 52.4
Wheelbase, in. 78.7
Weight, lbs. 1355
Trunk capacity, cu ft 3.0
Fuel tank, U.S gal. 6.9
Power anything? No
A/C? No
Airbags? No
Anti-Lock Brakes? No
Crumple Zones? No

2015 Civic LX
5 Speed 4 cyl - 143 Horsepower
MPG - 31
Length, in. 179.4
Width, in. 69.0
Height, in. 56.5
Wheelbase, in. 105.1
Weight, lbs. 2754
Trunk capacity, cu ft 12.5
Fuel tank, U.S gal. 13.2
Power anything? Yes, everything including remote keyless entry
A/C? Standard
Airbags? Standard, including rollover
Anti-Lock Brakes? Standard with traction control
Crumple Zones? Standard

So....new car costs twice as much, and gets the same gas mileage. But has 4 times the power, double the acceleration performance, almost double the range, 4 times the cargo capacity, can realistically seat 4 North Americans (is rated for 5), comes with a buttload of standard safety and comfort features that didn't even exist in 1971.

This is most evident in economy cars. I did a few more of these, and noticed as the car's price went up, the difference between then and now continued to decrease in terms of inflation adjusted cost. This doesn't even address the fact that cars today are on average, much more reliable and better built then cars back then.

FC

This was good info, particularly citing the differences in the base-level standard equipment.. It would be interesting if one could compare the "1971" model comparably equipped to the current model, and I think we would see near-equal price as adjusted for inflation. Plus of course the other benefits listed.
 
You wouldn't spoil me Gary.
Up until about 10 years ago when my last neighbor got to old to do it, I've been helping make the "Real Stuff" since I was 3. Started tagging along with my dad. Helped the farmers in the hood gather the sap and wood and boil it down. When I got old enough, I just kept it up. Better than the syrup, is the maple suger. (stomach growels)
 
You wouldn't spoil me Gary.
Up until about 10 years ago when my last neighbor got to old to do it, I've been helping make the "Real Stuff" since I was 3. Started tagging along with my dad. Helped the farmers in the hood gather the sap and wood and boil it down. When I got old enough, I just kept it up. Better than the syrup, is the maple suger. (stomach growels)

Woody, every time I do something from scratch, I spoil myself. It's like a trek I'm on, venturing into a galaxy left behind. You could call it a "rude awakening", and you'd be correct. I'm rediscovering great things lost. Our society doesn't have a clue to how manipulated they are. I on the other hand, do, and I ain't buying their crap anymore. My mind is clearer these days, I am becoming more focused, and people no longer understand me. I suppose that a given side effect...if you will. Not sure about the UK, but here in the US, I live amongst a society of people inundated with meds. Everyone over here thinks they have problems that meds can solve. Sad scenario to say the least.

I suppose you'd be expecting a bottom line here, but in general, people are F***Ked up, and don't know it.
 
Woody, every time I do something from scratch, I spoil myself. It's like a trek I'm on, venturing into a galaxy left behind. You could call it a "rude awakening", and you'd be correct. I'm rediscovering great things lost. Our society doesn't have a clue to how manipulated they are. I on the other hand, do, and I ain't buying their crap anymore. My mind is clearer these days, I am becoming more focused, and people no longer understand me. I suppose that a given side effect...if you will. Not sure about the UK, but here in the US, I live amongst a society of people inundated with meds. Everyone over here thinks they have problems that meds can solve. Sad scenario to say the least.

I suppose you'd be expecting a bottom line here, but in general, people are F***Ked up, and don't know it.

Watch some the drug comercials. The darn side effects are worse than what they are suppose to fix!
For me, I was born 100 years too late. I'd be much more happier born in 1860 than 1960 from what I know now.
Couplle horses, buggy, wagon, 4 mules, cabin with the nearest neighbor 10 miles away. Down til dark. Can what you grow to survive winter.
Cut/burn wood for your dirt floor single room log cabin. Yeup, and make stuff out the hides from the animals you kill/trap for meat.
Bunch a chickens, hogs, few cows, maybe ducks n geese.
Your getting me started Gary....
 
My first vehicle was a 1984 suburban we bought new, that was on it's third engine by 50,000 miles. It died at 85,000 in 1999. (still plowed with it for two years running on 4 cyl....3 on one side :) ) I NEVER stopped working on that pig. It had a 40 gallon tank that never seemed big enough. It had 3 engine fires.

Somehow I think Harley's are mechanically fantastic. That 'burban set the bar low. Oddly enough...I want another one to tear apart.
 
Honestly, I don't see how Monica even plays a part in this thread at all. There's a bunch of threads that started since she resurfaced. Maybe you can elaborate on why you think they are relevant?
.

Pretty sure the Monica Lewinski reference has to do with the thread title and the word "suckage."
 
One problem we the middle class are facing is the lack of middle class quality products. Years ago I bought a nationally advertised exercise machine. It was made in China cost around $300 and it was crap from the get go; thankfully the store I purchased it from gave me a refund so no loss to me.

I then looked into the history of this item and discovered it originated here in the U.S. and you could still purchase an American made version of this product. That set me back about $1,100, expensive but doable and I’ve never been disappointed with the money spent.

But then the U.S. Company decided that it didn’t want to build a “Low End” product line anymore. They began focusing only on “Top of the line” products beginning at around $2,500.

So now you have two choices. $400 Chinese made crap, not worth buying, or $2,500 and up products that are probably way out of range for most people. Where’s the in between?

We face the same situation with many of the items we have in our homes; especially with things like appliances and furniture. Or look to cookware; $100 sets of junk you buy at Walmart or $500 sets that are actually something that might last a few years, with virtually nothing in between.


You are absolutely correct about this. I've heard this called the dumbbell effect where products and services migrate to the two extremes --- either very cheap, low-quality crap, or high-end for a premium price, and nothing in the middle. It's happening with everything. With restaurants, there are plenty of fast food dollar menu crap choices, and there are also great high-end restaurants, but decent middle market restaurants are dying out. With entertainment, the quality of cheap or free broadcast TV has gone into the toilet, but some of the best TV ever made is available for a steep cost through premium cable channels, and there's nothing in between.
 
Woody, every time I do something from scratch, I spoil myself. It's like a trek I'm on, venturing into a galaxy left behind. You could call it a "rude awakening", and you'd be correct. I'm rediscovering great things lost. Our society doesn't have a clue to how manipulated they are. I on the other hand, do, and I ain't buying their crap anymore. My mind is clearer these days, I am becoming more focused, and people no longer understand me. I suppose that a given side effect...if you will. Not sure about the UK, but here in the US, I live amongst a society of people inundated with meds. Everyone over here thinks they have problems that meds can solve. Sad scenario to say the least.

I suppose you'd be expecting a bottom line here, but in general, people are F***Ked up, and don't know it.


I agree that creating something for yourself is immensely satisfying. I do it myself whenever possible and applaud you for it. I also agree that this society is highly manipulated by the machine (for lack of a better word). Where I disagree is that you seem to feel as if you have a secret knowledge of this and no one else is aware. Many of us are aware of exactly where this society has gone and is going but unfortunately far more do not care.
 
Where I disagree is that you seem to feel as if you have a secret knowledge of this and no one else is aware. Many of us are aware of exactly where this society has gone and is going but unfortunately far more do not care.

That's why I used the words, "in general" I never said I knew something no one else does. That's a conclusion you drew. Sure, there's folks out there that have a clue, but it appears to me, on so many levels, that we're few in numbers. A good example of this is, just how many people get blown out of the saddle when they hear that I make my own vanilla, butter, syrup, sausage, peanut butter, extracts for insect repellants, applesauce...yadda yadda. I get the usual,"I didn't know you could make that yourself. And you grind your own hamburger?....Why?" So many people are hard wired into just going out and buying, giving no thought to all the junk they put in their shopping carts.

I met a lady at in a sewing department when I was looking lavender flowers, thinking she might have them in that department for sachets and such. When I mentioned what I wanted them for, that led into a huge conversation that literally astonished her. She was somewhat overwhelmed to meet someone who was much like herself, attempting to get back to the real things and rid themselves of so many chemicals in their food and such. So if it sounded like I was singling myself out, it was unintentional. The other side of this coin, is the gratification I get when I make something for the 1st time and it blows me away. And some of it is so simple to do too.
 
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I'm being anal


"1971 Honda Civic (600)
1971 Civic
4 Speed 4 cyl - 36 Horsepower"


I2 2 cyclinders -30 Hp
 
You are absolutely correct about this. I've heard this called the dumbbell effect where products and services migrate to the two extremes --- either very cheap, low-quality crap, or high-end for a premium price, and nothing in the middle. It's happening with everything. With restaurants, there are plenty of fast food dollar menu crap choices, and there are also great high-end restaurants, but decent middle market restaurants are dying out. With entertainment, the quality of cheap or free broadcast TV has gone into the toilet, but some of the best TV ever made is available for a steep cost through premium cable channels, and there's nothing in between.

I just got back from the extortion. . . I mean, grocery store where I spent just over $30 for a week’s worth of FRUIT AND HALF A DOZEN BAGELS!!!
No meat, no boxed or canned or dairy goods no frozen stuff, just fruit and bread to last one person a week.

I checked out a package of thin cut bone in pork chops, about the cheapest cut of pork you can buy.
$4.59 a pound. Not that many years ago I bought porterhouse steaks for that price.

I looked at frozen halibut steaks. . .
So that’s what an aneurism feels like.

How does anybody feed a family these days?
 
We eat a lot of Raman noodles and cup-O-noodles.
Sundays our big meal day. Usually sausage gravey and bisquits, and dinner is steak or fish.
Middle of the week a pot of chilly. Cold cuts, hot dogs. Maybe hambergers. Cheap as we can if we want to keep the belly full.
 
I checked out a package of thin cut bone in pork chops, about the cheapest cut of pork you can buy.
$4.59 a pound. Not that many years ago I bought porterhouse steaks for that price.

How does anybody feed a family these days?

You cut corners in the right places. I like me a steak now and then, but the grocery stores have a less than average quality of meat anymore, what with all the growth hormones they use these days. I'll spend the bucks I save on the corners I can cut, to afford the top shelf cut of beef from a cattle farmer that doesn't use them. It cost a whole lot more, but it's way more tender and really taste like a steak should.

Now you ask, what corners to cut? Eating out a lot can get expensive, routing your driving habits when shopping (if possible) and get as much as you can do, in one round. Here's one of my really great money savers, MAKE YOUR OWN LAUNDRY DETERGENT.
 
You cut corners in the right places. I like me a steak now and then, but the grocery stores have a less than average quality of meat anymore, what with all the growth hormones they use these days. I'll spend the bucks I save on the corners I can cut, to afford the top shelf cut of beef from a cattle farmer that doesn't use them. It cost a whole lot more, but it's way more tender and really taste like a steak should.

Now you ask, what corners to cut? Eating out a lot can get expensive, routing your driving habits when shopping (if possible) and get as much as you can do, in one round. Here's one of my really great money savers, MAKE YOUR OWN LAUNDRY DETERGENT.

You can only cut corners so far before it becomes round.
 
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