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Gary,is it allways about the dollar? I know I've paid way more than some things are worth on the market,but, I wanted it and I got it and I'm happy. I dont want to go to me grave with tons of money and even more regrets/wishes.

Ah...my friend...you cut me to the quick. I might be a frugal guy, but I'll tho down the buck when it's in order. Sure, when it comes to the hobby, I'll get just what I want but also at the best price I can get it. I like to spend my money wisely. A lot of times I'll buy more expensive parts, because they're better, but why pay more to shop at "a forum favorite" vendor, when I can get the same thing for less and seriously fair shipping?

When it comes to foods, I shell out more for the better quality, some authentic organics, and make a lot of things myself. A lot of what I make myself cost me a bit more sometimes, but the trade off is worth it. Start using homemade butter for a few weeks and then go get a stick of that store bought crap, and you'll never go back. Just this week I made some homemade vanilla maple syrup with all natural ingredients. I couldn't believe what I had gotten used to over the years. Went to make a taste comparison, and when I open the cabinet door, Mrs. Butterworth was looking at me with that. Macaulay Culkin face. I'll pinch the dollar is places where I can, so I can spend it where I need or want to...simple.
 
Then stop buying crappy, cost reduced products at Walmart, Best Buy, Lowes, and Home Depot.
Buy from appliance stores, plumbing suppliers, lumber yards, etc.
There's a world of difference between a gas grill from Home Depot and the 'same' gas grill from an appliance dealer.
 
Then stop buying crappy, cost reduced products at Walmart, Best Buy, Lowes, and Home Depot.
Buy from appliance stores, plumbing suppliers, lumber yards, etc.
There's a world of difference between a gas grill from Home Depot and the 'same' gas grill from an appliance dealer.

If you want quality, Wal-Mart is the last place you want to go. Everything the buy is based on hitting a price point, and nothing else. The quality of products you buy from them is not the same quality of the same brand bought elsewhere.

-Kevin
 
Another victim of grumpy old man syndrome. If it's new, it must suck.

And lets talk about cars a bit. For the hell of it, I decided to do some research.

1971 basic Ford Mustang coupe, starting MSRP - $2,911
1971 basic Ford Mustang coupe, MSRP adjusted to 2014 - $17,108
2015 basic Ford Mustang coupe, starting MSRP - $23,600

Hmmm...my math shows the Mustang is only beating inflation by maybe 40 percent. Hardly 3 or 4 times the price.

1971 Chevy Impala hardtop sedan MSRP - $3400
1971 Chevy Impala hardtop sedan, MSRP adjusted for 2014 - $19982
2015 Chevy Impala sedan MSRP - $27700

Huh...grocery getter sedan is also about 40 percent higher than inflation.

1971 Honda Civic (600) MSRP - $1395
1971 Honda Civic MSRP adjusted to 2014 - $8198
2015 Honda Civic MSRP - $18190

Okay, now we're talkin! Over double the price!

But wait, there's more...lets talk specs!

1971 Civic
4 Speed 4 cyl - 36 Horsepower
MPG - 31.6
Length, in. 125.0
Width, in. 52.5
Height, in. 52.4
Wheelbase, in. 78.7
Weight, lbs. 1355
Trunk capacity, cu ft 3.0
Fuel tank, U.S gal. 6.9
Power anything? No
A/C? No
Airbags? No
Anti-Lock Brakes? No
Crumple Zones? No

2015 Civic LX
5 Speed 4 cyl - 143 Horsepower
MPG - 31
Length, in. 179.4
Width, in. 69.0
Height, in. 56.5
Wheelbase, in. 105.1
Weight, lbs. 2754
Trunk capacity, cu ft 12.5
Fuel tank, U.S gal. 13.2
Power anything? Yes, everything including remote keyless entry
A/C? Standard
Airbags? Standard, including rollover
Anti-Lock Brakes? Standard with traction control
Crumple Zones? Standard

So....new car costs twice as much, and gets the same gas mileage. But has 4 times the power, double the acceleration performance, almost double the range, 4 times the cargo capacity, can realistically seat 4 North Americans (is rated for 5), comes with a buttload of standard safety and comfort features that didn't even exist in 1971.

This is most evident in economy cars. I did a few more of these, and noticed as the car's price went up, the difference between then and now continued to decrease in terms of inflation adjusted cost. This doesn't even address the fact that cars today are on average, much more reliable and better built then cars back then.

FC
 
...NAAAAH, I dont believe for a moment that you are that thin skinned.
Anywhoo-Vanilla maple syrup....where did the maple syrup come from?

Simple recipe Scotty. Sugar, water, molasses, my homemade vanilla extract and pure organic maple extract...(not easily found at your local grocer's.) It has to be cooked, of course.

And for FastCargo...My 1st car was a 74 Hondamatic Civic that got 40 MPG. Apparently, the oil companies had their hand in sweeping that kind of mileage under a rug.
 
I remember working under the hood every weekend on a car that maybe got 100,000 miles. It was a major ordeal to keep it running. True, it is harder to fix newer cars but you can 300,000 miles with about 1/5 the work on the new ones. Add to that the safety factor and I will take a new one any day.

As for consumer items, it is true that the old American made stuff was good but thy are no loner available. I lament the loss of our manufacture sector, but foreign made does not necessarily mean poorly made. Do the research before buying. There are lots of great foreign made items available.
 
And for FastCargo...My 1st car was a 74 Hondamatic Civic that got 40 MPG. Apparently, the oil companies had their hand in sweeping that kind of mileage under a rug.

Yea...and how much did it weigh? Safety features? What about performance?

It's easy to get good gas mileage when your car weighs nothing and has the performance of a golf cart.

FC
 
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Yea...and how much did it weigh?

That's what I thought.

FC

1500 pounds. But for a 1st car, it was perfect. I got cheap gas mileage, it wouldn't go that fast which we all know is a plus with younger drivers. Sure, it might not have been the safest model on the road, but it got you from point A to point B. To someone with his first car, Driving from Charlotte NC to Myrtle Beach, and 1/2 way back on a full tank? It drove like a toy. Had front wheel drive so, driving on ice or snow covered roads was a cinch. Maybe it wasn't the PERFECT car, but it worked for me.
 
Speaking out of turn here, but only way to make true maple syrup is with sap from a sugar maple tree. Then add vanilla extract, which is one of thee most expensive flavors. According to the History Channel.

I gave up commercial syrups, and gave real maple syrup an honest shot. I really don't like it that much. It's tart, in a wrong way for me. So I make a simple syrup that is way much cleaner than the store bought syrups. At least I'm using real extracts instead of imitations. Molasses btw, is nothing more than cooked sugar drawn to a point of nearly burnt, but not candied. My vanilla extract cost me 1/2 of what people pay for what they think they're getting. 2 ingredients. Split, scraped & cut Madagascar V-Beans & your average brand of vodka.
 
average brand of vodka.

Not Average!!! Vodka is as wide as Whiskey. Give me the choice of Jim Beam or Jameson... I'll take Jameson anyday. At least you can drink it straight!
But is much better with a dash of soda water, brings out the fruityness!!! Beam is just...well...sour mash!
I know Vodka is the same, but I burned my self out on that back in 86.
 
Yup, every new thing is a version of a former good quality product which has been lobotomized to the point of becoming garbage with the hope of an ignorant consumer, susceptible to advertising, being willing to buy said garbage. We exist in order to slave away 8x5 and the fritter away our earnings uninformedly so the 0.00001% can vie to become the 0.000001%. We need to stop being sheeple.
 
Not Average!!! Vodka is as wide as Whiskey. Give me the choice of Jim Beam or Jameson... I'll take Jameson anyday. At least you can drink it straight!
But is much better with a dash of soda water, brings out the fruityness!!! Beam is just...well...sour mash!
I know Vodka is the same, but I burned my self out on that back in 86.

You would only be wasting your money on Hi end vodka to make vanilla extract. 35% of anything, like Burnette's is fine. I've been doing this for a while. I don't drink liquor anymore either. I'm a beer man. Most extracts are based with vodka because it has no flavor.
 
1500 pounds. But for a 1st car, it was perfect. I got cheap gas mileage, it wouldn't go that fast which we all know is a plus with younger drivers. Sure, it might not have been the safest model on the road, but it got you from point A to point B. To someone with his first car, Driving from Charlotte NC to Myrtle Beach, and 1/2 way back on a full tank? It drove like a toy. Had front wheel drive so, driving on ice or snow covered roads was a cinch. Maybe it wasn't the PERFECT car, but it worked for me.

I'm not disparaging the car, merely the thought that A) everything new is crap and B) that somehow because cars aren't running on magical micro drops of fuel that there is some collusion between oil companies and car makers. It's simple physics...cars are bigger, heavier and more powerful on average...the amount of work needed to apply force to make mass move hasn't changed. You'll note rockets haven't really gotten more efficient since the early days. Neither have jet airliners (https://www.theicct.org/sites/default/files/publications/ICCT_Aircraft_Efficiency_final.pdf for an interesting read). Unlike solid state technology, mass movement efficiencies can only go so far unless you use radically different technology.

Having said that, check this out:

https://royal.pingdom.com/2011/12/0...ssic-pieces-of-tech-history-at-todays-prices/

JVC HR-3300
Price in 1976: $1,400
Price now adjusted for inflation: $5,571

A cheap combo DVD/VHS player is currently $65. Think about that...a machine that can play 2 formats is 1.1% the cost of an old machine that could only play one format. Assuming the new machine has a one year warranty and only lasts that one year, you could buy one new machine, per year, every year, for EIGHTY FIVE YEARS, before you reach the break even point of how much the old machine cost.

Am I endorsing that purchasing model...absolutely not. But before folks too much about how things don't last like they use to, get some perspective. Some things are better (like cars) and though some things don't last as long, they also don't cost nearly so much.

FC
 
vodka because it has no flavor.

Says you. Didn't know you were using as a production media.
Thought you were adding it cuase you like your morning glow with ur pancakes, ahaha.
My mistake.
And Beer? I burned out on that before I was leagal to drink the 3rd time.
Now there's a story to tell about that...which includes Viet Nam and protestors and all that hippy crap.
If your that interested, just ask.
 
OK, my bad. I misquoted. The use of vodka is because it has little to no smell/odor. But almost all of my findings on making extracts, say that your average 40% vodka, extracts better than a higher alcohol content. and or better quality vodka. You most definitely could make it with Grey Goose, by why? You're just making expensive extracts which is plain overkill. There are some recipes that include using brandy and such, but that only puts a twist on the flavor. You've probably noticed that in most or all extracts and imitation flavors, that there is alcohol content included, along with various other chems and such. I make 1/2 gallon starting in June for the 6 month journey to completion, and gift most of it out. And the overall cost is significantly less than the retail price. Plus, it tastes a whole lot better. So says me and the recipients of said gifting. HERE is one of the better sites I used for my vanilla extract.
 
I know a few people who lament the fact that it is almost impossible to repair your own car and wish for the days when cars were simple enough to easily fix at home. But the simple older cars from say the 60's did not have the combination of fuel efficiency, low pollution, power, safety, and longevity. It's the complex engineering and electronic control that make all of that possible. You are not going to be able to repair a car with all those features at home. The great thing is that you won't HAVE to repair it all the time, because they run much longer with less maintenance. people who enjoy working on older cars should get an older car and work on it. It's a great hobby for people who like that kind of thing. But you might also want a reliable, clean running, efficient and safe car for your everyday driving needs.
 
1970 Pontiac LeMans; that was my grandparent’s last new car. Fifteen years later with around 150,000 miles on it the thing was a rusting, rattling death trap.

It had a 350ci small block V8 and if you tried to run the air conditioner while driving in hot weather it would overheat the motor. It got at best 18mpg when running at 70mph and the breaking distance from that speed was measured in sizeable fractions of a light-year.
Every year it needed a tune up that included new spark plugs, wires and belts, I think there were half a dozen belts on that car. Over the course of those miles I think they must have had half a dozen sets of new shocks installed and the new brake pads probably numbered in the double digits.

1999 Pontiac Grand Am; this is by “Beater Car”, it currently has 198,900 miles and while the interior is getting pretty shabby it is neither rusting nor does it rattle like it is about to fall apart. It has a 3.5L V6 and I can still drive it across the Texas Panhandle at the height of summer (102 deg.) at 75mph with the air conditioner on with nary a hint of overheating and still get 30mpg. It can still accelerate UP an onramp and the only problem I have with it is not hitting 80mph by the time I reach the on-lane. And it’s a good thing I use my seatbelt because the breaking force I have with this car could send me into the windshield if I wasn’t wearing it. I’ve had one new set of plugs and wires installed in the 12 years 160,00 miles I have owned it and one new belt, which is the only one it has. One set of new struts and maybe three sets of new brake pads.

Old cars better than newer cars?

Is to laugh.
 
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Speaking out of turn here, but only way to make true maple syrup is with sap from a sugar maple tree. Then add vanilla extract, which is one of thee most expensive flavors. According to the History Channel.

Once or so a year I order a gallon of Grade “A” Dark Amber pure maple syrup. The cost of the syrup hasn’t gone up that much but the cost of shipping has become nothing short of highway robbery.

One thing I have noticed is that I can use far less of the real stuff than I need to use of the bilge sold in the supermarket as “Maple syrup” and still get a good flavor on my waffles, pancakes etc.
 
For anyone interested, I have attached the recipes. I've never tried the 1st one, but I did the 2nd one. And I split the ingredients to make a 1/2 batch ( 12oz ) It's amazing how much better it tastes homemade. Granted, this is not real maple syrup, but instead a cleaner, better tasting, and a little thicker than many of the commercial brands of syrup.

View attachment VANILLA MAPLE PANCAKE SYRUP.pdf
 
One problem we the middle class are facing is the lack of middle class quality products. Years ago I bought a nationally advertised exercise machine. It was made in China cost around $300 and it was crap from the get go; thankfully the store I purchased it from gave me a refund so no loss to me.

I then looked into the history of this item and discovered it originated here in the U.S. and you could still purchase an American made version of this product. That set me back about $1,100, expensive but doable and I’ve never been disappointed with the money spent.

But then the U.S. Company decided that it didn’t want to build a “Low End” product line anymore. They began focusing only on “Top of the line” products beginning at around $2,500.

So now you have two choices. $400 Chinese made crap, not worth buying, or $2,500 and up products that are probably way out of range for most people. Where’s the in between?

We face the same situation with many of the items we have in our homes; especially with things like appliances and furniture. Or look to cookware; $100 sets of junk you buy at Walmart or $500 sets that are actually something that might last a few years, with virtually nothing in between.
 
OK, my bad. I misquoted. The use of vodka is because it has little to no smell/odor. But almost all of my findings on making extracts, say that your average 40% vodka, extracts better than a higher alcohol content. and or better quality vodka. You most definitely could make it with Grey Goose, by why? You're just making expensive extracts which is plain overkill. There are some recipes that include using brandy and such, but that only puts a twist on the flavor. You've probably noticed that in most or all extracts and imitation flavors, that there is alcohol content included, along with various other chems and such. I make 1/2 gallon starting in June for the 6 month journey to completion, and gift most of it out. And the overall cost is significantly less than the retail price. Plus, it tastes a whole lot better. So says me and the recipients of said gifting. HERE is one of the better sites I used for my vanilla extract.

OK Gary. I understand. But like I said. I thought you were adding it after the process for a morning glow. My mistake on the purpose of the Vodka.
In your above explaination I can see where using expensive vodka would be a waste. So....Gift most of it huh? Should I PM my mailing address? :fly:
 
Unless you made it or have had to modify it it'll never of true fit for purpose or of lasting standard. The house I live in now I bought 6 years ago. It was a brand new build, all new tech blah blah. £500,000 for this 4 bed. I've spent the last year pretty much rebuilding it how I want. Now everything has settled and stopped moving and combine with her in doors wanting it like this and not like that have spent maybe £20k working on it making it what we want, better, properly. Silly little thing but anal things that wind me up. Ie the plaster bards fitted wrong on the stairs and started too bow outwards, so I cut them out and replaced in the right orientation, filled the stud wall with space blankets (crazy effective insulation) and ran some networking cables, plastered all back up.

Not an easy person too please
 
Mmmmm. This thread appears the same week Monica Lewinski resurfaces to whine about Drudge some more. Coencidence? You decide!

Honestly, I don't see how Monica even plays a part in this thread at all. There's a bunch of threads that started since she resurfaced. Maybe you can elaborate on why you think they are relevant?

OK Gary. I understand. But like I said. I thought you were adding it after the process for a morning glow. My mistake on the purpose of the Vodka.
In your above explaination I can see where using expensive vodka would be a waste. So....Gift most of it huh? Should I PM my mailing address? :fly:

Woody, I would spoil you if I sent you some. Then you would be hounding me for more. Your best effort would be, click on the link I provided above and follow the directions. Make your own. Just know, it is not a quick fix recipe. And for what it's worth, this ole boy don't do no alco-bev in the AM. It would be the last thing on my mind, unless I knew I had to re-up for my given 5:30 PM indulgence.

Making extracts is really a simple process. But a lot of people don't think or know about how to do it. Easier to spend the buck at the grocer's and get the BS they sell. Just another step in the many for me, to eliminate chems from my food source.
 
OK Zonie. You started this thread because you apparently were not happy with a recent, or a great many purchases to some degree. Time to belly up and cough it up. Just who, or what defecated in you oatmeal, to encourage a thread that seems to have taken on a life of it's own? Thanks btw. Been a great outlet for me to provide some healthy information and share some chem free recipes.
 
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