Waterslide Decals: Proper Timing and Technique

I've built about a dozen kits now, and frequently, waterslide decals are included. I've used some, and left off others.

But the technique of how to apply them always puzzles me.

I understand that a shallow dish of warm water is required for soaking... but I've read suggestions to soak the entire decal under the water for anywhere from 15 seconds to 30 seconds. Does the glue dissolve and wash away if you wait too long in the water?

Other than having the clear plastic sheet not want to separate if you try to slide too quick, is there any other risk of being "early?"

I understand the concept of trimming down the decal and dry fitting it to where you want it. But is there any risk of a loose corner or an overlap sticking out and catching the slipstream and either: 1)Pealing off, or
2) Creating drag, or
3) Inducing a spin like a flap might?
Any rules of thumb welcome here.

I have read where a drop of dish detergent is suggested to keep the decal sliding around until positioned. Won't it do that anyway, do to the slippery nature of the 'glue'?

Working on Semroc's Saki decals tonight. Boy, there are a lot of them to choose from!

Should you attempt to seal decals onto the model with a clear coat spray? Or is future floor finish the preferred 'top coat' now?

you risk tearing the decal if you 'jump the gun'. I always heard that the detergent was used for its' wetting properties. you might consider using distilled water. I've used both future and clear coat, future is easier, might soften in high humidity/heat conditions, like sweaty hands on a hot day.
Rex

Kirk G said:

I
But the technique of how to apply them always puzzles me.
I understand that a shallow dish of warm water is required for soaking... but I've read suggestions to soak the entire decal under the water for anywhere from 15 seconds to 30 seconds. Does the glue dissolve and wash away if you wait too long in the water?

Other than having the clear plastic sheet not want to separate if you try to slide too quick, is there any other risk of being "early?"

I understand the concept of trimming down the decal and dry fitting it to where you want it. But is there any risk of a loose corner or an overlap sticking out and catching the slipstream and either: 1)Pealing off, or
2) Creating drag, or
3) Inducing a spin like a flap might?
Any rules of thumb welcome here.

I have read where a drop of dish detergent is suggested to keep the decal sliding around until positioned. Won't it do that anyway, do to the slippery nature of the 'glue'?

Should you attempt to seal decals onto the model with a clear coat spray? Or is future floor finish the preferred 'top coat' now?

Click to expand...

There are differences in decals from different vendors.
Estes decals are probably silk screened, smaller vendor decals are printed on laser or ink jet home printers.
Different decals have different soak times.
It's best to test soak a small decal you won't use on the model. An extra logo decal or some numbers on the edge of the decal sheet.

I usually soak about 20 seconds, remove the decal (still on the backing paper) from the water and then set it on a paper towel
while it continues to soak and "release" from the backing paper.
Try and slide it on the backing paper. If it doesn't move, leave it alone for another 30 seconds and try to slide again.
You might have to put it back in the water for a few more seconds if it is really holding on.

Soak times vary with the age of the decal and the clear coat applied over the top.

Don't soak a HUGE wrap around decal first. Try smaller ones to get used to how they soak and transfer.
Wet your finger and set some water on the model surface before setting down the decal. This allows you to slide it around into position.

Get ready - Some builders don't want to hear about a drop of detergent in the soak water.
They say it diminishes the adhesion of the decal.

I've never been happy with Future coats over the entire model
I usually just seal the decal edges with Future rolled over with a Q-tip.

Sprayed on acrylic clear coats may look great at first but as Rex R said, they can get sticky on a hot, humid day.

Kirk G said:

I've built about a dozen kits now, and frequently, waterslide decals are included. I've used some, and left off others.

But the technique of how to apply them always puzzles me.

I understand that a shallow dish of warm water is required for soaking... but I've read suggestions to soak the entire decal under the water for anywhere from 15 seconds to 30 seconds. Does the glue dissolve and wash away if you wait too long in the water?

Other than having the clear plastic sheet not want to separate if you try to slide too quick, is there any other risk of being "early?"

I understand the concept of trimming down the decal and dry fitting it to where you want it. But is there any risk of a loose corner or an overlap sticking out and catching the slipstream and either: 1)Pealing off, or
2) Creating drag, or
3) Inducing a spin like a flap might?
Any rules of thumb welcome here.

I have read where a drop of dish detergent is suggested to keep the decal sliding around until positioned. Won't it do that anyway, do to the slippery nature of the 'glue'?

Working on Semroc's Saki decals tonight. Boy, there are a lot of them to choose from!

Should you attempt to seal decals onto the model with a clear coat spray? Or is future floor finish the preferred 'top coat' now?

Click to expand...

Kirk:
Water slide decals differ in the method by which they are produced. All must be approached with a little caution. Many of the new Ink-jet and even Alps printed decals must be clear coated before they are cut from the decal sheet. Estes and most of the better quality model companies use Silk-Screened Decals on heavier clear coated waterslide decal papers. These are still not as good as the Old time Water slides we knew as younger folks.

YES the Water slide adhesive will completely dissolve if the decal is left in the water bath too long.

Most Peel off decal failures are due to one of two conditions: A: detergent residue under the dried decal or B: Decals applied to Flat paints.

Many Modeling mags have talked about using a drop of dish detergent in the water as a wetting agent. I have to tell you these claims are completely FALSE. All detergents leave a residue that can and will adversely effect the adhesion of the decal water soluble glue causing the decal to lift or not adhere to the model surface at all.

Just to confuse the issue a bit. Wetting agents (2 drops of dishwashing detergent in a pint of water) IS used as a wetting agent when applying adhesive backed Vinyls and Vinyl Sticker type "Decals". The difference is in the type of adhesive on the sticky side of the sticker!

For normal Water-Slide Decals: Cold to warm water is fine.
* Dip the decal in 15-20seconds.
*Remove the decal and place on a dry paper towel to rest for one minute. During this resting time the decal adhesive has a chance to loosen completely.
*Using a wet paper towel wet the surface of the model where the decal is to be placed.
*Pick up the rested decal with tweezers also wet your fingers before touching the decal.
*If the decal does not easily and completely slide around on the backing sheet let it rest another minute before attempting to apply the decal to the model wetted surface.
*If after the second minute it still won't budge re-immerse in your water bath for another 5-10 seconds NO LONGER and let it rest again.
*Apply the decal to the area of the model you wish and use a damp piece of paper towel or damp Q-tip to adjust the location.
* wick away excess water with a moistened paper towel, carefully and gently patting in place.

I totally agree with Chris in the previous Post about NOT soaking a Large body wrap until you've determined the wetting properties of the set of decals you are working with. The Larger the decal the more prone to difficulty in application. On very Large decal sheets I'll sometimes purposely split it up into smaller sections rather then trying to apply in one huge piece. Sometimes if the decal is large enough the joining pieces are applied a day apart.

I've saved decades old decals by giving them a fresh coat of Krylon 1305 UV clear before cutting the sheet apart.
Why does this work? ALL clear coats become Very brittle after drying and with age. This becomes especially bad with Decal Clear (a Silk-Screen Product) after about 6 months.

I stopped using rattle can clear coats on models more then two decades ago due to the brittleness and yellowing of these products.
I now use Future (Pledge with Future - for Tile Floors) on all my models applied with a 1" foam brush, not sprayed.
This Acrylic polymer material is a MUCH better protectant than any rattle can Clear including the most current UV clear coats. It can also be repaired and re-applied without build-up any time.
I further protect model surfaces with a coat of Nu-Finish Polymer. this is NOT a wax but a polymer product that bonds with the painted/decaled surface. it also can be re-applied at anytime without buildup.

Great advice, and just what I was looking for, guys. Except, i thought Rex had said it was the Future finish that got sticky/tacky in high humidity....not the spray clear coat.

Well, before I got your feedback, I did add a drop of detergent to a small dish of hot water, and after an initial bath of 30 seconds, I got my system down to this: 20 second bath in water for an average decal. 15 for something really small, like the SEMROC model number. I used my thumb to attempt to slide the decal off the backing sheet. And I immediately applied it to the high gloss yellow paint finish, sliding and positioning as necessary. If anything, I found they all wanted to slide more than I would have liked...which prompted my concern that i might have washed all glue away.

I never set any decal onto the paper towel, but used the paper towel to blot off excess water when present. I found a few of the longer decals would "wrap around" the edge of a surface, and it was some trouble to get them to lay right. However, all did lay down, and the model was drying overnight. Now, I have one or two more that are destined for the nosecone, but I found some areas in need of touch-up or one more yellow coat to make it uniform, so I've held off on those. Didn't use ALL the decals, but came close. I basically replicated the cover photo with just a few variations to taste.

I had been spraying a clear coat over many of my rockets in the past (except for the flat black stealth Hyper-Bat, etc) and hadn't noticed any adverse yellowing or cracking...yet. But as my daughter (who is building elaborate Cosplay costumes of Japanimation characters in the basement) has a bottle of Future and has been urging me to use that instead of her clear coat... I'm going to try that Future technique with this model.

I only wish that I had spotted the missing back edge of the fins, blast chamber, motor mount and had hit it/sprayed that one more time before I started the decals that are adjacent! Maybe I'll shoot a little on a cue tip and attempt to brush it on the few small gaps that I've noticed. (It's the OCD kicking in, I'm afraid. LOL!)

Perhaps this before and after photos will illustrate the yellowing of Clear Coats and Decal Clear over time.

Removing the yellowed clear coat without harming the underlying decals Was A Bitch! But as you can plainly see the old DECAL clear under the clear coat had yellow from UV exposure also.

NOTE! Any clear coat that does not have UV inhibitors will YELLOW with exposure to any UV light source.

Disaster!

I shot the tail end of the Saki with the last of the can of yellow gloss paint, and while dangling the attached nose cone, gave it one more coat. While turning and inspecting my work, the nose cone swung and hit on the very first red dot decal that I had applied on the wing...the one with the 30 seconds of soaking. And pulling away from the wing, it striped the decal off the wing and started to attach to the nosecone. I was able to grasp a corner of the decal and get it off the nosecone (which was tacky) and flatten the red dot out. However, there appears to be no or low adhesive left on it.

How do I re-apply it to the wing? Is there a particular type of adhesive to be used? I still have the scraps of the rest of the decals... including long or broad sections of unused "clear" that should still have the adhesive under the clear plastic. Should I cut a section of this clear, soak it for 20 seconds, until it slides off, and reapply my red dot to the backing paper, to transfer some of the slippery adhesive to it and then lay it down again? or attempt to 'recover' the wayward red dot so there are two layers of decal?

Please advise.

I always put in a couple drops of detergent and never had a problem.

But I assumed it was to reduce the surface tension of the water, not to make the decals slide easier. When I dip my finger tips in the water and wet the surface where the decal will go prior to placement the water spreads out instead of beading up and running off. Then I put on the decal and can slide it around into position because there's plenty of water.

I prepared to soak one of the two eyeball decals in just plain warm water, and after 15 seconds, it slid free. I immediate positioned it, smoothed it, and then laid the red dot of the rising son back onto the backing board sheet and rubbed it around. I then positioned the red sun dot on the wing again and smoothed it down all around. Last step was the other eyeball, which went the same. Then I picked up the two discarded backing sheets from the eyeballs and pressed them face to face... under the assumption that if I let them dry, they would adhere to each other. And if I needed a second coat of glue, I could soak them briefly, peal them apart, and have about two doses of glue to spread again.

Kirk G said:

Disaster!
... However, there appears to be no or low adhesive left on it.

How do I re-apply it to the wing? Is there a particular type of adhesive to be used? ...

Click to expand...

You can use Future (Pledge with future shine, whatever) as a setting solution to hold the decal on. I've been in a similar situation where due to misadventure I had a decal with little if any glue on it. Simply rewet the decal, put a bit of Future on the rocket where the decal needs to go, then slide the decal on. Blot off excess, and let dry fully.

I've done tests, and Future can be topcoated with more Future, or either enamel or lacquer clear finishes. This was a surprise: I didn't realize future could be topcoated with traditional paints.

Marc

Marc_G said:

You can use Future (Pledge with future shine, whatever) as a setting solution to hold the decal on. I've been in a similar situation where due to misadventure I had a decal with little if any glue on it. Simply rewet the decal, put a bit of Future on the rocket where the decal needs to go, then slide the decal on. Blot off excess, and let dry fully.

I've done tests, and Future can be topcoated with more Future, or either enamel or lacquer clear finishes. This was a surprise: I didn't realize future could be topcoated with traditional paints.

Marc

Click to expand...

Second what Marc Posted! I've used Future, Brush on clear, and several decal setting solutions to get stubborn or lifted decals to seat on models then overcoat with a second coat of Future to ensure it stays where it was placed.
Kirk; if you don't already have a decal setting solution I strongly recommend MicroScale decal set. While your at it you might want to pick-up a bottle or two of Microscale Liquid decal film. Both are alcohol based, self leveling brush-on products that sure take most of the fight out of difficult and low tac waterslide decals.

The apogee video has the kids adding white glue to the water. Has anyone tried this ? What are the long term results?

Microsolve and microset are my go to for applying decals and setting them.
Work great can find at most hobbytowns or on line.

KILTED COWBOY said:

Microsolve and microset are my go to for applying decals and setting them.
Work great can find at most hobbytowns or on line.

Click to expand...

I have had crappy luck with waterslide decals not sticking. I have the Experts Choice ones printable on a laser printer, from bare metal foil co. I have the decal film, micro set and micro sol. the latter two I have noticed no difference and trying to apply either in a film is like trying to wet the surface of your car after a professional hot wax job. The stuff just beads up and does nothing. HELP! I am curious about the "add glue to the water" idea too mentioned above.

Home printed decal film is thicker than the commercial screen printed decal film. My experience is that decal softening solutions have little to no effect on them.
I have used thinned wood glue and water to adhere paper graphics to a rocket. Haven't used it for decals, but I can't think of any reason why it wouldn't work. But I would use white glue rather than wood since the decal is clear. See post #2 in this thread:
https://www.rocketryforum.com/threads/model-minutes-g-75-carrier.152952/

Thin waterslide films, like Expert's Choice, can lose their adhesive fairly quickly, depending on how much time they're left in water. In my experience, I've found it takes comparatively little time to wet and slide an Expert's Choice decal unless it's something large or long. Decal setting solutions like MicroSet work great, but generally count on some of the decal's adhesive still being present for proper setting. Decal solvent solutions, like MicroSol, aren't intended for setting but for softening, and should be used if one has already set a decal but it's having trouble conforming to the surface. A decal solvent will soften the decal, and draw it to the surface.

If the decal's adhesive has been dissolved, then a decal adhesive might be the thing you need to try. Tamiya makes a good one https://www.tamiya.com/english/products/87176/index.htm and it's available in some hobby stores and at Amazon.

In the OTL-7A example, below, all of the markings (except for the red squares and stripe) were laser-printed on Expert's Choice film, and set in place with MicroSet.

kuririn said:

Home printed decal film is thicker than the commercial screen printed decal film. My experience is that decal softening solutions have little to no effect on them.
I have used thinned wood glue and water to adhere paper graphics to a rocket. Haven't used it for decals, but I can't think of any reason why it wouldn't work. But I would use white glue rather than wood since the decal is clear. See post #2 in this thread:
https://www.rocketryforum.com/threads/model-minutes-g-75-carrier.152952/

Click to expand...

I actually found from experience, that the film I have is much thinner than the decals you typically see in Estes kits for example. And that is with two coats of liquid decal film before soaking them... I may try out that Tamiya stuff!

Expert's Choice is indeed quite thin, and that thinness helps to create that "painted on" look.

If it's a laser-printed decal, I typically don't overcoat the decal before laying it down. Toner isn't water-soluble, but one does have to take care not to flex the decal too much or the printed toner can crack and potentially flake off a bit. Obviously for ink-jet printed decals, an overcoat is needed. But with care, a laser-printed decal can be managed without having to overcoat it. Always helps to have a few spares on hand just in case, to cover for that one decal that never seems to cooperate.

There are several reasons why I try to avoid overcoating before laying the decal down (this applies to laser-printed decals):

1) because building up the overcoat thickens the decal (makes it harder to hide the edges on the model once laid; no more "painted on" look))
2) it can require the film to stay in the water longer to soak through and activate the adhesive. It's preferable to soak the decal just long enough to activate it; we want to keep as much of that decal adhesive as possible for when it's laid on the model.
3) building up that top coat will defeat the application of softening solutions like MicroSol; it won't be able to penetrate the top coat, and therefore will be ineffective helping to conform the decal to the model's surface

Good luck, and hope this helps.

I usually cover laser printed decals with a thin coat of decal film I got from MicroMark. Much thinner than a coat of clear gloss, and significantly reduces the chance of my fingernails scratching the toner off during application. I just paint it on with a small art brush. Dries invisibly thin.