need black powder

Tarasdad said:

If you think it's hard in NJ or NY try Commieforniastan.

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If you know who and where to ask, it's not a problem. Comes in 1 pound cans.

And I'll bet dollars to donuts it's the same in Jersey. If that cat had a Jersey pyro-license, he'd know where to get it.

The fact that he's here asking us, makes me think something's up.

cherokeej said:

If you know who and where to ask, it's not a problem. Comes in 1 pound cans.

And I'll bet dollars to donuts it's the same in Jersey. If that cat had a Jersey pyro-license, he'd know where to get it.

The fact that he's here asking us, makes me think something's up.

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I'll throw my hat in this as I am a licensed pyro guy myself. Just because you are licensed does not mean you know where to get the stuff. Most pyro guys get all the product from a company facility, use it, and return the equipment. They don't buy it.


Christopher Short
Chris' Rocket Supplies
www.csrocketry.com
850-554-6531

This whole thread doesn't make sense.

That's because nobody has seemed to call him as requested. It seems the phone call is the key.


Because I am addicted, this is coming from my phone.

tbonerocketeer said:

I'll throw my hat in this as I am a licensed pyro guy myself. Just because you are licensed does not mean you know where to get the stuff. Most pyro guys get all the product from a company facility, use it, and return the equipment. They don't buy it.


Christopher Short
Chris' Rocket Supplies
www.csrocketry.com
850-554-6531

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How do you return "Used" Black Powder????

Right Wing Wacko said:

One should also note that the sale of Black Powder is regulated by the feds subject to the provisions of 27 CFR Part 555 and also by the states. Resale of Black Powder is a felony without the appropriate license.

For use in anything other than a Black Powder Rifle requires a LEUP.

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Agreed, although 27 CFR Part 555 was amended. A couple of years ago 555.41 dropped the LEUP; now you get your explosives license, or not...there is no Low Explosives License (LEUP). A bit crazy; I am authorized to store several tons of the stuff now in my Class III/Class IV magazine that is...6" x 12" x 12" in size, just big enough for my 1lb container and a few dehydration strips. It drives the agents as crazy as us checking on the storage of 10 oz of BP as it does us to get the explosives license....hopefully things will change.

My field is lighting design, lighting programming and master electrics. I stay far way from pyro. BP is all i have used in my rockets and it works every time. I do have pyrodex but have be warned not to use it as it may not provide to punch need to push out parachutes and such.

eagleclawflyer38 said:

My field is lighting design, lighting programming and master electrics. I stay far way from pyro. BP is all i have used in my rockets and it works every time. I do have pyrodex but have be warned not to use it as it may not provide to punch need to push out parachutes and such.

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Well atleast you came back to clear that up.
Apologies if I came off as a Jerk, but you can't be too careful nowadays when it comes to keeping your Eyes open for potential Threats from our Government and Evil Doers alike.

Welcome to the Forum.

those are old pictures you should see my latest level two project. at last lauch it hit 4400 feet. and the only thing i use bp for is ejection charges. thought some of you would want to do a little friendly business or could direct me to a supplier.

I am inclined to ask where you found bp for your previous flights. Local clubs are a great resource. If you are legit, I am sure someone will help you locally for free.

Look he flies. Enough with the questions on that.

4f can be hard to source in NY/NJ. The regs make it hassle even for gun shops, so not many carry it. Best bet is to look in PA, where even sporting good stores like dicks/cabela's/gander mountain carry one pound cans.

pyrodex works, you just have to be careful to pack it tight, and ground test it.

TopRamen said:

Because this Cat does'nt want Powder for Ejection Charges apparently, he want's them for Night Club Pyrotechnics.

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cherokeej said:

If that cat had a Jersey pyro-license, he'd know where to get it.

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I like how you both referred to him as that Cat. You don't see Beatnik slang very often these days. But you Daddy-O's need to Chill! Don't Flip, you Dig? The Cat is Hip. He ain't The Man. He's just wants to Score some 4f so he can get his Kicks and have a Gas with his Crazy rocket and impress the Chicks. So just Cool It, Man!

I gotta Split.

Later!

This guy is for real. He flies with us at Radrocks in Great Meadows, NJ, just like Carlo said earlier. One option for bp would be valuerockets "ejection charge reload kits" That's what I did anyway. More expensive, but more legal than other options.

Nate

ThirstyBarbarian said:

I like how you both referred to him as that Cat. You don't see Beatnik slang very often these days. But you Daddy-O's need to Chill! Don't Flip, you Dig? The Cat is Hip. He ain't The Man. He's just wants to Score some 4f so he can get his Kicks and have a Gas with his Crazy rocket and impress the Chicks. So just Cool It, Man!

I gotta Split.

Later!

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:lol:

at the beginning of the summer one of the members of Metra was nice enough to fill my little BP dispenser for nothing.https://cart.amwprox.com/images/stories/virtuemart/product/bpdisp7.jpg

nute said:

This guy is for real. He flies with us at Radrocks in Great Meadows, NJ, just like Carlo said earlier. One option for bp would be valuerockets "ejection charge reload kits" That's what I did anyway. More expensive, but more legal than other options.

Nate

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Yeah, it's all cool now, and my Apology to him is real too, but you gotta' Admit, making his First Post like that was a heck of a way to introduce himself.

TopRamen said:

Yeah, it's all cool now, and my Apology to him is real too, but you gotta' Admit, making his First Post like that was a heck of a way to introduce himself.

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Glad to hear it, and yeah,definitely not necessarily the best way to make an entrance. No offense to any party.

Nate

I just checked at a local gun store that just opened up, and they do not have 4F. The guy in the ammunition department told me they do carry 3FG. I don't know anything about black powder or what these different codes mean, but when I asked him about it, the guy didn't seem all that familiar with what the different codes mean either. He said something like, "I would have to open the cans and show you, and I can't do that." I took that to mean he didn't really know.

There's not a lot to it, the more Fs, the finer the powder. 3F has larger grains than 4F and 2F is larger than 3F, so on. The smaller the grains the faster the burn and the higher the peak pressure. If you can't get 4F, 3F will do, just takes a little more. 4F has very limited application in the Black Powder firearms world, 2 and 3 being much more common and easy to find.

The quantity of hot gas generated from BP depends on the weight of BP used, but the time to release the gas depends on the grain size.

The average diameter of 4FG grain is 1/2 that of 3FG grain so on average, so on average a 3FG grain takes twice the time to burnout compared to a 4FG grain, and so it takes twice as long to generate the full ejection gas volume from 3FG than it does from 4FG. But since BP burns very fast, I doubt you will notice much of a difference in all but the smallest rockets.

Where it really makes a difference is in cannons. Cannon grade BP is 11 times larger than 4FG powder. If you load 4FG into a cannon, the pressure rise in the breech will be so rapid that the cannon ball can not move away fast enough to increase the volume and reduce the pressure so the cannon breech will rapidly disassemble.....

A cannon CATO if you will......

Bob

Bob

There was a guy came out to Balls a few times with a BP cannon. Fired 16 pound bowling balls from a machined out acetylene cylinder mounted on a carriage. Heck of a toy. But I think he was using his own meal powder. Pretty sure he was an amateur pyro guy.

For the most part, 4F is used as pan powder for flintlocks.

But if you can tell the ground test ejection of a 4F squib from the ground test ejection of an otherwise identical 3F squib, you've got better eyes than I. If all your supplier has is 3F, buy a can. Assuming you ran your ground tests properly, in flight, you won't be able to tell the difference.

he's real, I'll vouch for that. He has no clue, however, as to what we've been through before the Judge set things right.
He just doesn't understand that BP is a touchy subject, best to be talked about and smeared about the net.

Darn newbies.

He should just talk to the people at the launches he goes to. They might be able to set him on the correct path.

just maybe :eyepop:

cherokeej said:

But if you can tell the ground test ejection of a 4F squib from the ground test ejection of an otherwise identical 3F squib, you've got better eyes than I. If all your supplier has is 3F, buy a can. Assuming you ran your ground tests properly, in flight, you won't be able to tell the difference.

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The only difference I found with 3F & 4F is the 4F only left scorch marks on the nomex wraps, the 3F left small burn holes. The holes weren't big and the chute wasn't affected, but the nomex "wore out" faster.