Nose cone weight

Hey guys, I am new to rocket building and the site. I am designing a high Powered rocket. I wanted to know how heavy my nose cone needs to be, in theory. Because I am doing all the math now, then building after. Is there a way to find this out? My rocket body is 12 feet long, and the nose cone I am going to order is going to be 3 feet long. The body of the rocket weighs (with fins) 46.71 pounds (with the weighs I was given for the materials I am using). How heavy should the nose cone be?

Thanks!
SpaceTitan

Welcome! Have you ever heard of Openrocket? It's a sim program that you can use to enter all your details and find out what you need. Big rocket... What is it? 10" diameter?

SpaceTitan said:

Hey guys, I am new to rocket building and the site. I am designing a high Powered rocket. I wanted to know how heavy my nose cone needs to be, in theory. Because I am doing all the math now, then building after. Is there a way to find this out? My rocket body is 12 feet long, and the nose cone I am going to order is going to be 3 feet long. The body of the rocket weighs (with fins) 46.71 pounds (with the weighs I was given for the materials I am using). How heavy should the nose cone be?

Thanks!
SpaceTitan

Click to expand...

You do know that to fly a high power rocket, you need to be certified, right? You can't just decide to build a HPR rocket and fly it in the park!

I am not shooting this rocket in the local park, my friend. Thanks for the warning, I have done some research you know I am getting clearance from my federal government to launch this.

The diameter is 8" and the OD is .0125".

OD means Outside Diameter. I'm thinking you meant something other than what you typed, possibly lost in translation.

Gerald

Where is your center of mass and center of pressure?


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Please do not be offended, but that is too much rocket for just starting out. Stop what you are doing, take a step back, and build something smaller for a L1.

I would recommend getting a kit for your L1 cert. Get Rocksim or OpenRocket, and build the kit in the simulation program so you can get a feel for what it will do, and can get an appreciation for the cp/Cg relationship. Then certify L1 and fly a bunch. Then go a bit bigger and do your L2.

The rocket you are designing is a LARGE L3, is NOT for beginners, and if you have not built and flown a lot of high power rockets is not the place to start.

Here Ends the sermon.


Mark Koelsch
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op:

SpaceTitan said:

Hey guys, I am new to rocket building and the site. I am designing a high Powered rocket. I wanted to know how heavy my nose cone needs to be, in theory. Because I am doing all the math now, then building after. Is there a way to find this out? My rocket body is 12 feet long, and the nose cone I am going to order is going to be 3 feet long. The body of the rocket weighs (with fins) 46.71 pounds (with the weighs I was given for the materials I am using). How heavy should the nose cone be?

Thanks!
SpaceTitan

Click to expand...

Well you have taken on quite a project ST ! Most of posters here are members of one or both hobby rocket organizations in the U.S. - NAR or Tripoli. No law says that you have to be but it makes all kinds of sense to most of us, especially when looking at a project like you're proposing. Anyway, a rocket is stable if the center of gravity (CG) is ahead of the center of aerodynamic pressure (CP). One of the factors that influence the CP location is the size and location of the fins. Once the location of the CP is known you can determine how much nose weight you need to add to get the balance right.
The other issue you will have is propulsion. Any commercial motor dealer I can think of will not sell to you without the proper certification from either the NAR or Tripoli.

This may be crazy, but I am looking to open a Aerospace company. This is just a prototype rocket. I am not alone on this project, I have a great deal of colleagues who are very very knowledgeable in the field, and I am going into this field in uni. Thank you all for your help! We are hoping to have this rocket flying and building larger ones soon.

And no, I am not out of my mind, although it may seem like it

op:

Hi new guy Well, I think you're discovering we're a tough crowd. You see, we know how tough it is to even get a small rocket to perform optimally and that's after years of flying. I'm trying to get re-certified after years of letting it lapse. I shouldn't have done it; I was 3rd level. My last two certification flights failed in recovery, something that really never happened to me in the past.

All I'm saying is don't skip rungs on the ladder. One thing to allay our doubts is to put something up like .rkt files or a web site explaining what your doing. A serious Aerospace company could make serious money these days. Here's a big thing you have to know about this site; there are people who worked in the aerospace industries and at NASA that fly little rockets and come to this site. They can smell a pile of BS a mile upwind and have no problem telling someone they're full of crap.

This time I'm coming in on the side you could be serious. I hope you can do what you want to do. Show us what you're doing and keep us informed....maybe that will keep the "sharks" from biting chunks out of you...maybe...

I will definitely keep you guys informed. I will have a web site up as soon as possible. But we are not done the basis quite yet.

More details to come, and I am not full of BS.

Spacetitan. There are people who post here looking for info that sometimes sounds suspicious. When I see someone new to the forum who sounds like they have little or no rocketry experience, and they ask about making big and powerful rockets, it sends up a flag. Similar to someone taking flying lessons, but not interested in learning how to land the plane.

For someone who is planning to start up a rocket business, but doesn't even know how heavy the nose cone needs to be, sounds suspicious. If you have colleagues who are knowledgeable in the field, why are you asking us?

It is not paranoid to think there are people who want to make rockets to do bad things with them. And it's not paranoid to think those people might try to use this site to gain info to build their rocket.

Your post is suspicious and smells like either BS or someone who is trying to run a marathon before they know how to crawl.

op:

If you are designing the rocket for a commercial venture, and you do not know how heavy the nosecone needs to be there is a serious disconnect between your goal and reality.

If you are serious then you have a great deal to learn. So much so that you trying design this large a rocket without knowledge of the basics is nothing short or dangerous, foolish, and damned irresponsible!

The other option is that you are trolling the forum looking to get folks worked up with this. Frankly, I am actually hoping that this is the truth.

Mark Koelsch
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Well, without knowing the weight and balance of the motor itself, hard to say. As others have mentioned, there are widely available sim programs to figure this out as well.

What do you plan to use as a motor for this?

Atleast this time he did'nt introduce himself as "I am Control Engineer", or ask about steering the Rocket at altitudes of 35-40,000 Feet.:rofl:

Now I am quite curious as to which country this is coming from. Lots of interest in building a large rocket, a commercial venture but limited experience. It's logical to conclude a security concern.




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SpaceTitan said:

This may be crazy, but I am looking to open a Aerospace company. This is just a prototype rocket. I am not alone on this project, I have a great deal of colleagues who are very very knowledgeable in the field, and I am going into this field in uni. Thank you all for your help! We are hoping to have this rocket flying and building larger ones soon.

And no, I am not out of my mind, although it may seem like it

Click to expand...

Sadly, there's not much of a market for very-low-altitude suborbital lobs, at least none that I'm aware of. Before sinking your money into an expensive venture, you may want to ask yourself what your market is and what your business plan is.

Hal8472 said:

Now I am quite curious as to which country this is coming from. Lots of interest in building a large rocket, a commercial venture but limited experience. It's logical to conclude a security concern.




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It is ALWAYS logical to assume "a security concern".

Well assuming that this is just the beginnings of an aerospace company, we can assume that he would like to go higher, and if he does go higher, his rockets could potentially be used a s cheap launch vehicles for cubesats.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CubeSat

littlemisterbig said:

Well assuming that this is just the beginnings of an aerospace company, we can assume that he would like to go higher, and if he does go higher, his rockets could potentially be used a s cheap launch vehicles for cubesats.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CubeSat

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Not likely. If he doesn't have the very basic grasp on things like CG/CP and asks the questions is, it lands him in the neighborhood of "dreaming high school student" which isnt a bad thing, or "crazy ass person with terrible intent". A lot of people play down the latter, but I think we've seen our fair share of it.

This guy claims to have "clearance from my federal government". Right. If that doesn't send flags up, I don't know what should. I've got to admit, his English is better than the usual.

DizWolf said:

Not likely. If he doesn't have the very basic grasp on things like CG/CP and asks the questions is, it lands him in the neighborhood of "dreaming high school student" which isnt a bad thing, or "crazy ass person with terrible intent". A lot of people play down the latter, but I think we've seen our fair share of it.

This guy claims to have "clearance from my federal government". Right. If that doesn't send flags up, I don't know what should. I've got to admit, his English is better than the usual.

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Nailed it!

@Dizwolf, you nailed it. But how?

Although, I never said I "have "clearance from my federal government"", I said I was planning on getting it.

And you should all be happy, I am going to put this project on hold as I thought about it, and it may be a little to much for a beginner. I will on the other hand, make a much smaller, 2-3 foot rocket.

No am I am not a "threat" to anyone, or am I building these to hurt anyone. That escalated quickly. Just simply, maybe, just a little, too optimistic of my abilities and a "dreamy high school student." Oops, arrest me for being interest in space flight. Although it is a serious dream of mine to own a company like SpaceX or something

Will try to keep you updated on this project and whenever i start to other project up again.

P.S., thanks for the rocket sim

SpaceTitan said:

@Dizwolf, you nailed it. But how?

Although, I never said I "have "clearance from my federal government"", I said I was planning on getting it.

And you should all be happy, I am going to put this project on hold as I thought about it, and it may be a little to much for a beginner. I will on the other hand, make a much smaller, 2-3 foot rocket.

No am I am not a "threat" to anyone, or am I building these to hurt anyone. That escalated quickly. Just simply, maybe, just a little, too optimistic of my abilities and a "dreamy high school student." Oops, arrest me for being interest in space flight. Although it is a serious dream of mine to own a company like SpaceX or something

Will try to keep you updated on this project and whenever i start to other project up again.

P.S., thanks for the rocket sim

Click to expand...

I think folks just get concerned when they see someone with a nearly-zero post count pop on and ask about seriously large rocket. As a point of curiosity, where are you from? This might help us provide some constructive guidance for you as far as local resources go (particularly from an industrial point of view).

Nothing wrong with dreaming man. We all do it. Just when it's time to turn dream into reality, you have to make real choices. That was the main point of our advice. A smaller rocket will be an excellent start, and we'd be very glad to help you with it.

The motor will drive the design of the rocket .... What do you have available to you?

Well, my high school lab technician and I are building a sugar rocket engine. And I have a helping hand of the 30 year chemical veteran.

I have mostly researched and done the design. We are hoping to do a static test this weekend, and find out how much thrust this motor will give us.

And to answer you're question, I am from the Great White North.

Although, I have a question for you guys, what should I build the body tube out of; plastic tubing or cardboard? I want something light but strong.

Fiberglass or carbon fiber is your best bet, although if you dont have a lot of funding you will want to go with fiberglass. It is widely available, strong, cheaper than carbon fiber and quite light. (just watch out for splinters!)

Thank you, does anyone know which store I would get that from, because it seems like home depot doesnt have it.