29mm, 2.5" Estes PSII Cherokee D Upscale... Looking Good!

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K'Tesh

.....OpenRocket's ..... "Chuck Norris"
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If you remember, last year, I reported my safety concerns with the Estes Porta Pad E, and in my later conversations with Estes (around Valentine's Day), I dropped that I was interested in picking up an Argent. I also told Mary the reason I wasn't ordering the rockets I wanted because of the way the sale was being run (different rockets on different days, S/H was prohibitive). The next day, the sale opened up, and everything that was going to be on sale now was on sale (and they've done it that way since).

Seeing my opportunity to score an Argent, I ordered one, and unknown to me at the time, Estes sent me one as a thank you. The gift arrived first, and was in pristine condition, however the order was pretty well thrashed by the time it arrived.



Of course, the damage was done to the upper side of the fin can's body tube, so there'd be no hiding it. However, it could be cut off, but what to do with the remainder?

I advised Estes, and was surprised to receive a 2nd (complete) order (I was expecting them just to be send a body tube). Oh boy! Now I have 3 Argents (one damaged). However, the 3rd Argent's transition was defective (warped due to uneven cooling). I told Estes about this (and advised them that I didn't need a 4th Argent). So, they sent me just the replacement transition. Now I've got all these parts. Hmmm, what to do with them.

I also picked up a Partizon, and in looking at that, I was reminded of how closely it resembles a streatched version of the Cherokee D. Hmmm

I was able to cut down the damaged body tube, and with a 2.5" nosecone that I ordered from Estes, I've begun making a Pro Series II 2.5" Cherokee D (long version).

The motor tube was built and installed some time ago, but the project languished for some time. In a rush to build it, I somehow got the scale of the fins wrong. Instead of the 187.97% increase (yielding fins that are 7" at the root). I think I messed up a BT-60 build with the BT-55 and printed a fin layout that was only 5.XX" long. Annoyed, I set it down for a while, and went on with several other builds.

Well, that's in the past. Last weekend, a cleaning of my building area turned up the 7" fin pattern. Today, I have the materials, and some time to work on it. So, the fins have been cut out, and are now fitted to the tube. I've got a fin guide made, and things are progressing. I've had to slot the tube for the longer fins (thus supporting them better), but the middle section between the top centering ring, and the middle centering ring will not be able to be filleted.

Seems to me that this would be the perfect modification to a Partizon, as its nosecone (9.75" long) is a close match to the Cherokee D's PNC-55AC in upscaled length (10.15").

Decals are Stickershock. All other parts are Estes, except for the baffle, and the fins.

I'll be building this as a zipperless design, parting just under the wide wrap.

Cherokee D (Long Version)
Overall Length 23.403"
Nosecone Length 5.403" (Estes PNC-55AC)
Body Tube Length 18"
Diameter 1.33" (Estes BT-55)

Cherokee D (Long) (187.97% upscale)
Overall Length 43.948"
Nosecone Length 9.75" (072413 - Pro Series II™ 2.5" Plastic Nose Cone)
Body Tube Length 34.125"
Upper 10.25"
Mid 15.5"
Fin Can 8.375"​
Diameter 2.5" (Estes Pro Series II 2.5")

FYI, if you want to make the short version, here's the info I've got...

Cherokee D (Short Version)
Designed by: Gene Street
Overall Length 21.753"
Nosecone Length 5.403" (Estes PNC-55AC)
Body Tube Length 16.35"
Diameter 1.33" (Estes BT-55)

Cherokee D (Short) (187.97% upscale)
Overall Length 40.48"
Nosecone Length 9.75" (072413 - Pro Series II™ 2.5" Plastic Nose Cone)
Body Tube Length 30.73"
Upper 6.855"
Mid 15.5"
Fin Can 8.375"​
Diameter 2.5" (Estes Pro Series II 2.5")

 
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So, today, I glued the fin pattern to one of the sheets of birch (aircraft) ply, then drilled and pinned it to the other two sheets that will form the fins. To help keep the sheets of ply together, I tacked them together with a few small drops of medium thickness CA.



After the fins were cut out with my Dremel scroll saw, I sanded the edges smooth with 150, then 220 grit. Next, I measured the tabs, and lengthened the slots for the longer tabs. While doing that, I found that I needed to add a 2nd notch to the fins to allow for the uppermost centering ring. After cutting that, I discovered that the tabs I made were too long (my 7" pattern was a blown up photocopy of the fin based on the 5.XX" fin). So, I had to trim down the root edge. That done (and a little sanding to make sure that the pieces fit together nicely) I test fit the pieces together.



Which brings me to this point...



I've printed the fin guide I created from payloadbay.com, glued it to a piece of foam core, and if I had the fins papered, I'd be ready to glue them in place.
 
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Yesterday, I managed to paper the fins, glue them on, and seal up the fin can. Today, I've glued the fin can to the airframe, started on the external fillets, and added the aft rail button (which will be white).



A practice that I've started doing to my larger rockets that are likely to come down on their body tubes (instead of their fins) is to glue in a ring of coupler material, or scrap body tube to thicken the rear of the rocket.


I've also taken to gluing on a scrap of ply or bass wood to the area were the rail button will screw into (prevents the screw from blowing out the wood).


One change that I'm planning on is to change the convention of changing of the name of the rocket based on the motor (e.g. Cherokee C, Cherokee M, etc.). To me, a Cherokee D should always be a Cherokee D. It doesn't matter if the rocket is powered by a 1/4A motor or an O motor. IMHO it's the "D Power" decal that should change. Instead of specifying a single size of motor (C, D, or whatever) it should indicate the diameter of the motor tube. So, you can expect to see that this one will still say Cherokee D, but it'll be "29mm Powered". Hopefully I'll get a sample to share from Mark soon.


Next, I'll have to build one of my baffles, glue the retainer on, and figure out how/where I'm going to mount the forward rail button.


Plans are that I'll build this with the PSII 24" parachute (after verifying that all the shrouds are secure... I've heard stories).
 
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Baffle is partially built... (rail button mount installed)





The finished baffle will have two quarter moon shaped plates, with a 29mm gap between them orientated parallel to the bottom plate (which is 35mm wide). I'll shield them from the heat w/JB Weld.


Glued the motor retainer in place... (aft rail button installed)





I'm still debating on whether or not to glue the forward coupler in place or not. As is, it can be removed just by unscrewing the forward rail button.


More to come...
Jim
 
This build has languished for long enough... I got it in grey primer a few weeks ago, and sanded out most of the spirals, put it in white primer today, and now I'll do some more sanding before putting on the final paint. I'm expecting that this will be finished soon.

More Later
Jim
 
Ok... Now that I'm out of school, and the weather wasn't exactly good for street performing (besides the Skype interview I had tonight), I managed to finally get it decaled. Decals from Stickershock. I'm pleased...





I realized after I got the NX-47A decal applied that it's a tad too separated from the United States decal, but such is life.
 
That is one fine looking bird there, Jim.

With all of these upscale Cherokees and Arapahoes being built, and none in my fleet... well, we just might need to correct that situation. Thanks for the inspiration

Don't forget to come back to post the launch photos / video. You know how much we love those. :wink:
 
I wonder what the cost-point would have to be for Estes to start doing these sort of re-releases in the PS-II format? Hummmm. That BIG Cherokee D sure does get my BAR juices flowin'! For that matter, could another company license the PS-II line since I have heard rumors (I have not substantiated them) that Estes is not that interested in the PS-II line in favor of the E2X bigger birds.
 
Thanks! I'm pleased with it. I'd love to see Estes come out with a PSII scaled PNC-55AC nosecone, but the Partizon's nosecone will have to do for the moment.

If you're serious about rectifying the issue... At this time Estes has its Christmas in July sale going. Buy a Partizon for $22.50, and mod from there. It has everything you need except for the decals.

Oh, and if I do manage to get this one up (I'm trying to get to China, so it may be a while), rest assured, I'll do everything I can to get video and photos.
 
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I wonder what the cost-point would have to be for Estes to start doing these sort of re-releases in the PS-II format? Hummmm. That BIG Cherokee D sure does get my BAR juices flowin'! For that matter, could another company license the PS-II line since I have heard rumors (I have not substantiated them) that Estes is not that interested in the PS-II line in favor of the E2X bigger birds.

Oh, I've got an idea... A re-release as a PSII bird with an updated clone of the original bundled together. Do like AMT is doing, One kit for Dad to build, one kit for the kid to build in a smaller scale. AMT has done that with the USS Enterprise NCC-1701 model. It wouldn't be unprecedented, Estes did that with the Mega Mosquito.
 
Oh, I've got an idea... A re-release as a PSII bird with an updated clone of the original bundled together. Do like AMT is doing, One kit for Dad to build, one kit for the kid to build in a smaller scale. AMT has done that with the USS Enterprise NCC-1701 model. It wouldn't be unprecedented, Estes did that with the Mega Mosquito.

Has anyone run this by Jumpjet, to get his take on it? It seems like if there's anyone that can do anything about it, it would be him. They'd actually have to print decals for it, though, I think. The paint patterns on the PS2 builders kits have been simple enough to mask, except for the MDRM, so they made decals for that. I think a PS2 Cherokee would be in the same boat, so that might the biggest hurdle if there's much cost involved.
 
Dunno if John's aware of it or not. However, I did send an image to Mary Roberts.
 
A PSII version of an PNC 55AC(2.5''/3'') would open up a myriad of upscale opportunities. However I don't think Estes will get behind it without A LOT OF CLAMOR! Look what happened to the 3" Nike Smoke NC they offered-poof! Also the MDRM NC is now gone!(I just checked) I think a PML 2.56'' NC is very close to an AC upscale, it's been awhile since I've compared them.
 
... I think a PML 2.56'' NC is very close to an AC upscale, it's been awhile since I've compared them.

It is very close. The closest out there when I did my upscale about 1 1/2 years ago. These are just great fliers.
 
I used the PML nose cone on my 2.6 Cherokee Double G.

11705569_10207441822502688_7241410630972645716_o.jpg
 
I was inspired by this thread, but was too lazy to cut accurate fins. I used Argent fins instead.
ImageUploadedByRocketry Forum1441281927.036122.jpg
ImageUploadedByRocketry Forum1441281972.046234.jpg

The Argent fins are a little short on root and long on span. But easy!
 
If you remember, last year, I reported my safety concerns with the Estes Porta Pad E, and in my later conversations with Estes (around Valentine's Day), I dropped that I was interested in picking up an Argent. I also told Mary the reason I wasn't ordering the rockets I wanted because of the way the sale was being run (different rockets on different days, S/H was prohibitive). The next day, the sale opened up, and everything that was going to be on sale now was on sale (and they've done it that way since).

Seeing my opportunity to score an Argent, I ordered one, and unknown to me at the time, Estes sent me one as a thank you. The gift arrived first, and was in pristine condition, however the order was pretty well thrashed by the time it arrived.



Of course, the damage was done to the upper side of the fin can's body tube, so there'd be no hiding it. However, it could be cut off, but what to do with the remainder?

I advised Estes, and was surprised to receive a 2nd (complete) order (I was expecting them just to be send a body tube). Oh boy! Now I have 3 Argents (one damaged). However, the 3rd Argent's transition was defective (warped due to uneven cooling). I told Estes about this (and advised them that I didn't need a 4th Argent). So, they sent me just the replacement transition. Now I've got all these parts. Hmmm, what to do with them.

I also picked up a Partizon, and in looking at that, I was reminded of how closely it resembles a streatched version of the Cherokee D. Hmmm

I was able to cut down the damaged body tube, and with a 2.5" nosecone that I ordered from Estes, I've begun making a Pro Series II 2.5" Cherokee D (long version).

The motor tube was built and installed some time ago, but the project languished for some time. In a rush to build it, I somehow got the scale of the fins wrong. Instead of the 187.97% increase (yielding fins that are 7" at the root). I think I messed up a BT-60 build with the BT-55 and printed a fin layout that was only 5.XX" long. Annoyed, I set it down for a while, and went on with several other builds.

Well, that's in the past. Last weekend, a cleaning of my building area turned up the 7" fin pattern. Today, I have the materials, and some time to work on it. So, the fins have been cut out, and are now fitted to the tube. I've got a fin guide made, and things are progressing. I've had to slot the tube for the longer fins (thus supporting them better), but the middle section between the top centering ring, and the middle centering ring will not be able to be filleted.

Seems to me that this would be the perfect modification to a Partizon, as its nosecone (9.75" long) is a close match to the Cherokee D's PNC-55AC in upscaled length (10.15").

Decals are Stickershock. All other parts are Estes, except for the baffle, and the fins.

I'll be building this as a zipperless design, parting just under the wide wrap.

Cherokee D (Long Version)
Overall Length 23.403"
Nosecone Length 5.403" (Estes PNC-55AC)
Body Tube Length 18"
Diameter 1.33" (Estes BT-55)

Cherokee D (Long) (187.97% upscale)
Overall Length 43.948"
Nosecone Length 9.75" (072413 - Pro Series II 2.5" Plastic Nose Cone)
Body Tube Length 34.125"

Upper 10.25"​
Mid 15.5"​
Fin Can 8.375"​
Diameter 2.5" (Estes Pro Series II 2.5")

FYI, if you want to make the short version, here's the info I've got...

Cherokee D (Short Version)
Designed by: Gene Street
Overall Length 21.753"
Nosecone Length 5.403" (Estes PNC-55AC)
Body Tube Length 16.35"
Diameter 1.33" (Estes BT-55)

Cherokee D (Short) (187.97% upscale)
Overall Length 40.48"
Nosecone Length 9.75" (072413 - Pro Series II 2.5" Plastic Nose Cone)
Body Tube Length 30.73"

Upper 6.855"​
Mid 15.5"​
Fin Can 8.375"​
Diameter 2.5" (Estes Pro Series II 2.5")

I have one more Partizon to build yet bought back in 2013. I love the Cherokee-E, and this idea! I think like this too, and trying to gather as much info as possible. Thank you again.
 
I have one more Partizon to build yet bought back in 2013. I love the Cherokee-E, and this idea! I think like this too, and trying to gather as much info as possible. Thank you again.
Glad to help!

I've since rethought about how I'd do the fin decals... Instead of having different decals on the same fins, it'd be "like to like"... Swoosh only to swoosh only, NASA to NASA, and NX-47A to NX-47A.

1690472065539.png
Also, if you copy my idea, here's an important thing to remember... Securely attach the NC to the Parachute Bay... In my "Go Fever", I had secured the NC to the shock cord, and checked to make sure the parachute would pull out when the shock cord deployed... But I forgot to secure the bay to the NC. When the ejection occurred, the NC was knocked off one end, and the PB was knocked off the other, trapping the parachute inside it... the rocket fell w/o a chute until the very last second (Read: a hairsbreadth from impact with terra firma) when the parachute managed to pull itself out and open. The shock cord unraveled, yanked the body tube up inches (not feet) from the ground, and then the chute laid the rocket softly on the ground. Unfortunately, my camera's battery died just at that moment... However, anyone that was there should be able to attest that it did happen (and of my relieved "I *MEANT* to do that!!!" denial of fact). The rocket was intact and undamaged... And I was right... I didn't have to walk far to recover it.




Uhhh...8 yr. old thread.......

The Thread Lives Again!!! :)
(Threads are never finished, just abandoned temporarily)
 
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Glad to help!

I've since rethought about how I'd do the fin decals... Instead of having different decals on the same fins, it'd be "like to like"... Swoosh only to swoosh only, NASA to NASA, and NX-47A to NX-47A.
Also, if you copy my idea, here's an important thing to remember... Securely attach the NC to the Parachute Bay... In my "Go Fever", I had secured the NC to the shock cord, and checked to make sure the parachute would pull out when the shock cord deployed... But I forgot to secure the bay to the NC. When the ejection occurred, the NC was knocked off one end, and the PB was knocked off the other, trapping the parachute inside it... the rocket fell w/o a chute until the very last second (Read: a hairsbreadth from impact with terra firma) when the parachute managed to pull itself out and open. The shock cord unraveled, yanked the body tube up inches (not feet) from the ground, and then the chute laid the rocket softly on the ground. Unfortunately, my camera's battery died just at that moment... However, anyone that was there should be able to attest that it did happen (and of my relieved "I *MEANT* to do that!!!" denial of fact).






The Thread Lives Again!!! :)
(Threads are never finished, just abandoned temporarily)
Ok man! I'm just getting back into this again, started using OpenRocket about a month ago. But having these files already done has made this so much easier to do flight sims. I found one for the Leviathan, but not the exact stock Partizon. I will take all that advice, I'm a little like you with building, not quite at your level. But its definitely an inspiration! I searched thru Google and this came up! Really Appreciate it, I have a few things to build and looking at cnc routers and laser cutting machines so I can make my own stuff from now on. I have a Mercury Engineering Integrator, that RocketryWorks is making a fin/centering ring/"chute stop" for that I actually sent in the mail to him after a good conversation. But he's done with his business....So I'm going to be making things for myself within a year. I've been building too much. It would really help me out. I know they can get pricey, but I found several that would work. Anyways. I'm out running around now. I'll sit down and look over this thread. And many others. Did a flight dim for my Super Big Bertha, its gonna be a low and slow one, unfortunate I only built it for 24mm D motors. I'm throwing around ideas, but thinking a BT-80 body tube, 29mm centering rings, and making a lower booster wirh plywood fins/tabs, etc. But OpenRocket has helped tremendously! After watching a tutorial I was even better at it. I've been doing this about 33 years, and what they have now is everything I always dreamed of, so again. Much appreciated!!!
 

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Ok man! I'm just getting back into this again, started using OpenRocket about a month ago. But having these files already done has made this so much easier to do flight sims. I found one for the Leviathan, but not the exact stock Partizon. I will take all that advice, I'm a little like you with building, not quite at your level. But its definitely an inspiration! I searched thru Google and this came up! Really Appreciate it, I have a few things to build and looking at cnc routers and laser cutting machines so I can make my own stuff from now on. I have a Mercury Engineering Integrator, that RocketryWorks is making a fin/centering ring/"chute stop" for that I actually sent in the mail to him after a good conversation. But he's done with his business....So I'm going to be making things for myself within a year. I've been building too much. It would really help me out. I know they can get pricey, but I found several that would work. Anyways. I'm out running around now. I'll sit down and look over this thread. And many others. Did a flight dim for my Super Big Bertha, its gonna be a low and slow one, unfortunate I only built it for 24mm D motors. I'm throwing around ideas, but thinking a BT-80 body tube, 29mm centering rings, and making a lower booster wirh plywood fins/tabs, etc. But OpenRocket has helped tremendously! After watching a tutorial I was even better at it. I've been doing this about 33 years, and what they have now is everything I always dreamed of, so again. Much appreciated!!!

Like I said "Glad to Help!". Thanks for the kind words...

Check out Launch Lab Rocketry for your lasercutting needs... They've been getting a lot of good responses to their products, and IINM open to custom work.
https://www.launchlabrocketry.com/shop/vander-burn
Here's a link to my tutorial on OR (It's a little outdated (OR 15.03) on the fin decals), but it might be of some use anyway...

https://www.rocketryforum.com/threa...e-users-guide-to-creating-or-ork-sims.168514/
 
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Like I said "Glad to Help!". Thanks for the kind words...

Check out Launch Lab Rocketry for your lasercutting needs... They've been getting a lot of good responses to their products, and IINM open to custom work.
https://www.launchlabrocketry.com/shop/vander-burn
Here's a link to my tutorial on OR (It's a little outdated (OR 15.03) on the fin decals), but it might be of some use anyway...

https://www.rocketryforum.com/threa...e-users-guide-to-creating-or-ork-sims.168514/
Yes I've emailed him. He's got some stuff but as much as I'm making, in would be more convenient to do it myself. I'm still looking around, I've probably watched your tutorial! I watched a few! Ill check it out!
 
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