L3 Build Intimidator 4

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I would never recommend going drogueless on a DD flight. Most of the duration in-flight on a DD flight will be between apogee and main deploy. Without a drogue, you are abandoning that part of the flight to pure chance, there is no positive control of the flight/drop of the rocket without a drogue.

I've seen some bad failure that could have been avoided with shorter shock cords and a drogue chute. I've also seen a lot of drogueless DD flights that were applauded as successful even though luck and over building were the only reasons the rocket survived and came down on the main.

A drogue gives you control of how the rocket drops.
 
Aerow said:
It may have set it to 0 for the delay time, need to manually change it to "None". Its showing 16k+ form an AMW 1350. I am using the new Aerotech M1350 Single-Use.

Yes it will be to around 15k and Mach 1.25. Will be fun.
Click to expand...

I built this kit earlier this year. It is quickly becoming one of my favorite flyers!

Here is some info on mine...
Weight with no motor = 16lb even

Flight Log
1/18/14: K780R Open Rocket predicted: 5,152ft / actual: 5,448 ft
3/15/14: L1150R Open Rocket predicted: 7,825ft / actual: 9,253 ft
10/11/14: K780R Open Rocket predicted: 5,152ft / actual: 5,528 ft

next flight on 11/15 will be with an L1420R. Open Rocket predicts: 9,886ft. I predict: +/- 12k

I ran a sim for the AMW1350 and got 11,704ft in mine. I'm guessing it would top 15k.

Good luck with the L3!
 
There is no need to use a drogue chute unless; you like long walks at sun down.... ;)
I've had flights 14k without a drogue.
50 lb rockets; without a drogue.

If designed properly: the rocket will stabilize in a horizontal manner, leading to a softer landing (if for some reason the main never opens).
The only time I'll use a drogue is: when I'm using the the ARRD or a Cable cutter.


JD


Handeman said:
I would never recommend going drogueless on a DD flight. Most of the duration in-flight on a DD flight will be between apogee and main deploy. Without a drogue, you are abandoning that part of the flight to pure chance, there is no positive control of the flight/drop of the rocket without a drogue.

I've seen some bad failure that could have been avoided with shorter shock cords and a drogue chute. I've also seen a lot of drogueless DD flights that were applauded as successful even though luck and over building were the only reasons the rocket survived and came down on the main.

A drogue gives you control of how the rocket drops.
Click to expand...
 
You dont need a drogue chute unless your anal. I have launch rockets up to 6 inches in diameter and never used a drogue chute. It is person choice. Yes if you have a large ass rocket that is heavy then yes, but I always get a kick when someone launches a 4 inch rocket weighing 12 pounds and there main is 52 inch sky angle and then they are using a 24 inch drogue. But to each his own. Then you figure then whats the point of doing DD.
 
JDcluster said:
There is no need to use a drogue chute unless; you like long walks at sun down.... ;)
I've had flights 14k without a drogue.
50 lb rockets; without a drogue.

If designed properly: the rocket will stabilize in a horizontal manner, ....

JD
Click to expand...

That's the key isn't it? I've seen a lot more drogueless rockets that don't stabilize at all then ones that do. Ballistic profiles, flying fin cans, in air collisions, etc. Those are a lot more common than a stable fall without a drogue.
 
andrewlathrop87 said:
You dont need a drogue chute unless your anal. I have launch rockets up to 6 inches in diameter and never used a drogue chute. It is person choice. Yes if you have a large ass rocket that is heavy then yes, but I always get a kick when someone launches a 4 inch rocket weighing 12 pounds and there main is 52 inch sky angle and then they are using a 24 inch drogue. But to each his own. Then you figure then whats the point of doing DD.
Click to expand...

Guess I'm just anal then! But I don't have broken rockets or long walks either.
 
You don't NEED a drogue....

But often you want one:
- to "dress" out the descent as planned to help avoid mid-air collisions.
- to slow the descent enough that the main opens without a huge shock (and possible shred)

The last is the key -- coming down drogue-less can often be a little fast for a flimsy chute.
 
You don't NEED a drogue....

But often you want one:
- to "dress" out the descent as planned to help avoid mid-air collisions.
- to slow the descent enough that the main opens without a huge shock (and possible shred)

The last is the key -- coming down drogue-less can often be a little fast for a flimsy chute.
Click to expand...

That is why you spend the extra money and buy a quality LOC ANGLE cute or another high quality chute like a Rocketman. You are already putting up a lot of money into the air theres nothing wrong with having a 100-150 dollar chute. Plus, u can use it on other projects
 
umm....I've popped a [regular] Rocketman chute coming in drogue-less....
The Ballistics as great and take the abuse -- but at a pretty big weight and size penalty.
 
Aerow, good luck finishing the build and with your cert attempt. Looking forward to reading more about it (and more pics)! (Hopefully less debates on drogue vs. drogue-less.)

MarkKoelsch, I cert'd on the WM Extreme (The lucky winner of Wildman's L3 Raffle). With a M1297, RS put it at 14K. I was expecting more around 13K - got 12.5K. Came in around 90% what was sim'd.
 
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Aerow said:
UPS Finally delivered it and boy was that box ****ed up when i got it. Way to go guys, you are the best.....not.
Click to expand...

Forgot to add, when UPS delivered my package, it was in a large plastic bag with the label from the box cut and taped onto the bag. As I recall, something minor was missing as a result of the handling. Called Tim and he took care of it pronto.
 
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MikeL said:
Aerow, good luck finishing the build and with your cert attempt. Looking forward to reading more about it (and more pics)! (Hopefully less debates on drogue vs. drogue-less.)

MarkKoelsch, I cert'd on the WM Extreme (The lucky winner of Wildman's L3 Raffle). With a M1297, RS put it at 14K. I was expecting more around 13K - got 12.5K. Came in around 90% what was sim'd.
Click to expand...

Mike, I figured that would likely be the case. In my rather extensive experience Rocksim, and yes Openrocket, tend to be optimistic by 5 to 10 %. My sim files tend to be very accurate, and then I take flight data (altitude, temperature, wind, weight, and rail angle) and run the sim adjusting the Cd until it matches the actual flight altitude.
 
Nice build thread!

Good kit choice, I used a kit-bashed Competitor 4 for my L3 and my buddy Gary (jackman) used a stock Intimidator 4. I did find the machining on the fiberglass parts a little rough and out-of-spec in some places. (For example the fin slots were nowhere near wide enough to accept the fins...) Not sure I'd buy from Wildman again.

I like your altimeter selections, I've flown both the RRC3 and RRC2+ before and I'm sold on them. Jim Amos over at Missileworks is a really great guy to do business with, excellent customer service and ships fast. (I got to shake his hand down at BALLS this year.)
Are you using the Sport or Xtreme RRC3 model?

By going drogueless on a rocket of this size and weight, I'd worry about stripping your main chute on deployment. However, I go drogueless in all of my lighter rockets and that always works perfectly. Plus, you can't really go wrong with the SkyAngle Cert-3 drogue...

Have fun!
 
How many more discussions can we get out of this thread?

Sorry I had to go to Tennessee to find a place to rent when i move in 2 weeks. Now to find a rocketry club....

Well I decided on Colors, Blue and Silver. It already has a silver tip, so I will do the Band in the middle, the tail cone and the edges of the fins all silver, then the rest blue.

Missileworks is sending me one of their sleds, so I will take some photos of it since i don't see much on here. I just realized he live like 30 minutes away and have paid shipping a few times now....lol

I will add some photos tonight when i get to work.

Also got my Eggfinder built and tested, with my rubber duckie 5 dbi antenna and panel antenna i got around 2.5 miles on flat terrain with the transmitter around 30 ft off the ground. So i should be able to pick it up after apogee and on the way down enough to get a place to look if we cant see it come down.

Alness, its just the sport version, I don't plan on flying anything above what I plan on with this flight. Maybe after i get settled in later i will create a new project that may go higher.
 
Aerow said:
How many more discussions can we get out of this thread?

Sorry I had to go to Tennessee to find a place to rent when i move in 2 weeks. Now to find a rocketry club....

Well I decided on Colors, Blue and Silver. It already has a silver tip, so I will do the Band in the middle, the tail cone and the edges of the fins all silver, then the rest blue.

Missileworks is sending me one of their sleds, so I will take some photos of it since i don't see much on here. I just realized he live like 30 minutes away and have paid shipping a few times now....lol

I will add some photos tonight when i get to work.

Also got my Eggfinder built and tested, with my rubber duckie 5 dbi antenna and panel antenna i got around 2.5 miles on flat terrain with the transmitter around 30 ft off the ground. So i should be able to pick it up after apogee and on the way down enough to get a place to look if we cant see it come down.

Alness, its just the sport version, I don't plan on flying anything above what I plan on with this flight. Maybe after i get settled in later i will create a new project that may go higher.
Click to expand...

For some reason, L3 build threads seem to bring out some of the most ridiculous debates on here... You should take a look at my build thread!!
And yes, the Sport version is plenty if you're staying under 40K.

Blue and Silver, eh? :wink:
IMG_2183.jpg
 
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Well here are a couple more photos.

First, finished up fillets adn used my dremel to sand them smooth. Still look like ass but i'm not exactly entering this into a beauty contest. They are definatly not going anywhere, i've dropped it a few times already, and nothing. Motor fits perfectly as does the retainer.
photo 1.jpg

And here she is all put together after the primer and the first coat of paint...Holy Blue. Tape is over the silver tip. Going to paint center band silver along with the fin edges and the tailcone.
photo 2.jpg

Total length is around 8ft, 9 in with the tailcone. The motor nozzle adds about 2 more inches to that.

Got my Iris Ultra chute in, and i gotta say that this is badass looking. Wife not so thrilled....she found the receipt. I looked at her shoe collection...nuff said.
Getting last few parts in tomorrow and it should be good to go for the launch on Saturday weather permiting that is.
 
Well Ladies and Gents,

She flew perfectly, well mostly perfect, um I still haven't found it yet.... Main deployed at apogee, ~14600, that was the last reading from the gps, lost the track after that and never got it back. We saw it coming down and drifting away, but after around 5-6 hrs of searching the plains of Northern Colorado it is no where to be found. Walked all over and could never reacquire a gps lock.

And to make my luck even worse, I seem to have lost my phone and camera as well, so no video of the launch, I beleive a buddy got one with his phone so I might have a video of the launch but thats it.

Used my Eggfinder and a Dog Collar GPS, Eggfinder seems to have taken a dump at the last second and the dog collar lost near apogee.

So I will go out tomorrow and look around...fml

Ignore the shitty spelling, I am tired after hiking around all day.
 
I am sorry to hear, I hope you find it. What antennas did you use on the Eggfinder? How big was the apogee charge and did you have shear pins on the nosecone?
 
Bummer! Hope it turns up...
Was this your L3 cert, or just a shakedown flight?
 
It was my Cert Attempt, bummer.

I searched around 10 hrs for it, ATV's are not allowed on the grasslands so it was all hiking around. Maybe it will turn up sometime in the future. I will go look one more time next weekend but it might be lost forever in the bowels of some ATV trailer or ranchers house.

Since the Main popped at apogee it may have drifted from Colorado to Wyoming, in that case its so rough up there I doubt I will find it any time soon if at all.

I guess I will try again in a few years or so.
 
The main deployed at apogee= FAIL in my book.
Unless you said so in your paperwork!
I've heard of people passing but, don't agree with it.....


JD
 
Well seeing as i lost the rocket its a fail, a few guys are going to fly over and take a look, I'm not the only one who lost their rockets. Must have been one heck of a wind up there.

I will try again after i move to Tennessee and do my overseas stint.
 
Was this a TRA or NAR attempt.
If TRA, I think under the current [stoooopid] rules, this is a pass.....
 
NAR, so its a fail.

I am not out a motor case as i used the Aerotech 75mm DMS motor. But still it would be nice to get it back.
 
Aerow said:
NAR, so its a fail.

I am not out a motor case as i used the Aerotech 75mm DMS motor. But still it would be nice to get it back.
Click to expand...
Yeah, nevermind the altimeters, chutes, and fiberglass! Anyways, very sorry for the loss and here's hoping it will find its way home someday.
 

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