U.S. Rockets 300mm motor???

The Rocketry Forum

Help Support The Rocketry Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.

Joker050608

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 21, 2013
Messages
449
Reaction score
0
Has anyone browsed this site before and or has anyone ever used their motors? I thought the biggest available was the 150mm but am I wrong?


Sent from my iPhone using Rocketry Forum
 
I remember looking at their site a while back and they had 18" diameter motors but now they only go up to 12". I need to find out of these are available to the public.


Sent from my iPhone using Rocketry Forum
 
No. They are commercial motors being sold for a profit that have never been submitted for certification, so they can not be used as research motors under TRA Research rules as I read them. Reference. https://www.tripoli.org/LinkClick.aspx?fileticket=dwhtBHGL9Zc=&tabid=325

3.2.2.1. Certified Motor
[FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman]. Any commercial motor which has been certified by Tripoli Motor Testing (TMT) and/or NAR Standards and Testing (S&T) and/or CAR Motor Certification Committee, or at one time was certified and has expired, or has been decertified. [/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][/FONT][/FONT]3.2.2.2. Research Motor
[FONT=Arial,Arial][FONT=Arial,Arial]. [/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman]Any non-certified motor made for personal use that may or may not contain commercially available components. Research motors shall not be sold or distributed for a profit. [/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][/FONT][/FONT]

Bob
 
Very well put bob. Thank you for looking into those things.

So would the motors the "sell" be considered an illegal business venture? Or just uncommon practice?


Sent from my iPhone using Rocketry Forum
 
So would they be considered experimental?




Sent from my iPhone using Rocketry Forum


They would be gone, kaput, non-existent, a pipe dream, wishful thinking, no longer available for your consideration.

I believe these large motors were what Frank Kosdon would have built for him at one time but, as with most deals surrounding this company things went sour for some reason. Frank's passed away so there's no answers there and JJ....well....smh....
 
As you may know, the owner of U.S. Rockets is quite notorious in amateur rocketry circles. He may still be banned on this forum but is quite active on Ye Olde Rocketry Forum. (https://forums.rocketshoppe.com/) But yes, these motors go way beyond Tripoli/NAR guidlines.
 
What got him banned? I mean I'm not trying to kick the guy in the teeth or anything. Not trying to say what he's doing is wrong either. Just curious I guess. You gotta admit, a 300mm motor would be pretty spectacular.
 
What got him banned? I mean I'm not trying to kick the guy in the teeth or anything. Not trying to say what he's doing is wrong either. Just curious I guess. You gotta admit, a 300mm motor would be pretty spectacular.

Well I don't remember exactly what the issue was and while I used the word "banned" it may have been self-imposed exile for what he would have considered over-zealous moderation of his posts. I do know that he ran afoul of U.S. government agencies back in the '90's for questionable labeling practices of rocketry items he was shipping. Now I have never ordered anything from U.S. Rockets but others here and on YORF have and may add their two cents. Based on the posts of his that I've read he's undeniably a knowledgeable fellow. 300 mm motor ? Maybe watching from a bunker on Bikini Atoll ! :shock:
 
None of these motors can be legally transported in commerce, as they have no DOT paperwork.

The DOT issued fines related to them being shipped without paperwork.

So, even if you could buy them, they cannot get to you in any legal way.

-Kevin
 
What got him banned? I mean I'm not trying to kick the guy in the teeth or anything. Not trying to say what he's doing is wrong either. Just curious I guess. You gotta admit, a 300mm motor would be pretty spectacular.
Insulting members, bad behavior and bad attitude.

And it was multiple time and several chances.

Bob
 
All motors he sells at this time are for government use . Non civilian. He said he would like to have the regular motors certification , but what happened 20 some odd years ago it may not happen . People can't let it things go. But if you order something from him and it is in stock on the site it will be at your door in a week or less . Great kits .
 
All motors he sells at this time are for government use . Non civilian. He said he would like to have the regular motors certification , but what happened 20 some odd years ago it may not happen . People can't let it things go. But if you order something from him and it is in stock on the site it will be at your door in a week or less . Great kits .

I have been looking at his kits lately and I've liked a bunch of them. Saw the motors and my jaw dropped. I've been looking at all the 12 inch kits but haven't one any business with them or even heard of anyone who has.

I have come to understand now that all his motors are not legally for sale or are for sale but cannot be transported in a legal manner. Bummer.


Sent from my iPhone using Rocketry Forum
 
None of these motors can be legally transported in commerce, as they have no DOT paperwork.

The DOT issued fines related to them being shipped without paperwork.

So, even if you could buy them, they cannot get to you in any legal way.

-Kevin
To legally ship rocket motor of any size, one must obtain an EX number for your propellants after appropriate third party testing to insure that the motors meet DOT shipping requirements. For whatever reason, the owner of US Rockets did not do this nor did he possess a required BATFE Explosives Manufacturing permit. He was caught shipping his rocket motors deliberately mislabeled as model air plane parts without any hazmat permits, hazmat labeling and packaging or documentation. He was convicted of a felony and heavily fined. I do not know if he served any jail time, however he was certainly eligible for it.

Prior to this event, US Rockets had submitted some hobby rocket motors for certification, and I believe a small number were certified. The certifications were withdrawn based on the conviction and the lack of valid documentation for the EX numbers.

Bob
 
To legally ship rocket motor of any size, one must obtain an EX number for your propellants after appropriate third party testing to insure that the motors meet DOT shipping requirements. For whatever reason, the owner of US Rockets did not do this nor did he possess a required BATFE Explosives Manufacturing permit. He was caught shipping his rocket motors deliberately mislabeled as model air plane parts without any hazmat permits, hazmat labeling and packaging or documentation. He was convicted of a felony and heavily fined. I do not know if he served any jail time, however he was certainly eligible for it.

Prior to this event, US Rockets had submitted some hobby rocket motors for certification, and I believe a small number were certified. The certifications were withdrawn based on the conviction and the lack of valid documentation for the EX numbers.

Bob

I guess it really only takes one person to ruin something like that. And it's a good thing all rocket motors were not banned because of this mishap. Or lack of proper protocol I should say.

As a class A cdl license holder I am very familiar with the DOT documents needed for all permits and materials on board. They're is a small grey area about explosives though which is a little confusing but I wouldn't transport anything without making a few phone calls.


Sent from my iPhone using Rocketry Forum
 
If you go to the U.S. Rockets website be prepared to turn the audio volume way down on your computer. A lecture on Austrian Economics begins playing when you enter the website, and the volume is turned ALL the up on the player. I'm not sure why JI thought it was necessary to include that on his website.
 
Yea I found that out last night sitting at the computer while my 4 mo old was sleeping.... Doesn't make any sense.


Sent from my iPhone using Rocketry Forum
 
None of these motors can be legally transported in commerce, as they have no DOT paperwork.

The DOT issued fines related to them being shipped without paperwork.

So, even if you could buy them, they cannot get to you in any legal way.

-Kevin

Wind me up Kevin... The book is in outline format...:grin: Seriously, what Kevin said...Enough said.:sad::eyeroll:
 
I guess it really only takes one person to ruin something like that. And it's a good thing all rocket motors were not banned because of this mishap. Or lack of proper protocol I should say.

As a class A cdl license holder I am very familiar with the DOT documents needed for all permits and materials on board. They're is a small grey area about explosives though which is a little confusing but I wouldn't transport anything without making a few phone calls.


Sent from my iPhone using Rocketry Forum
I want to be very clear about what happened. It was not a mishap, nor a lack of proper protocol. The owner of U.S. Rockets knew exactly what he was doing. It was an attempt at outright deception concerning 49 CFR hazmat shipping regulations, and hence the felony conviction.

Bob
 
...yeaaaa...that's Jerry in a nutshell ;)

It's a little off putting but I don't hear it when I look around from my phone. I would really like to see one of the motor in person. Even if they're not for amateur use or what have you, they're still pretty impressive. Id like to watch it launch.


Sent from my iPhone using Rocketry Forum
 
The Short version:
The One Who will not be Named, shipped rocket motors under guise of " Airplane Parts"
Then, he was fined by the DOT for doing so.... to the tune of $40k of which he has never paid.

Science channel or TLC or Discovery network in general had a short lived show something along the lines of Science in action.
Kind of like Myth Busters but with more bang.
He almost killed the production crew by setting of one of these motors prematurely.

Do I need to go on??



JD

What got him banned? I mean I'm not trying to kick the guy in the teeth or anything. Not trying to say what he's doing is wrong either. Just curious I guess. You gotta admit, a 300mm motor would be pretty spectacular.
 
He doesn't actually makes the motors he has someone else do it for him
The one who will no be Named, also among other things was producing rocket motors then, pre-dating them so they were still flyable under the 3 year burn period.
Even though he would never certify another motor.
Once this was found out, all US Rockets motors were de-certified immediately!

JD
 
The Short version:
The One Who will not be Named, shipped rocket motors under guise of " Airplane Parts"
Then, he was fined by the DOT for doing so.... to the tune of $40k of which he has never paid.

Science channel or TLC or Discovery network in general had a short lived show something along the lines of Science in action.
Kind of like Myth Busters but with more bang.
He almost killed the production crew by setting of one of these motors prematurely.

Do I need to go on??



JD

It's quite obvious that this guy was irresponsible as all hell.

BUT... If there was a responsible company such as cesaroni or aero tech that made motors of this size who could ship them following all protocol, and then prepped and launched by group of competent individuals. That I would love to see.

I'll just be removing his website from my bookmarks....


Sent from my iPhone using Rocketry Forum
 
BUT... If there was a responsible company such as cesaroni or aero tech that made motors of this size who could ship them following all protocol, and then prepped and launched by group of competent individuals. That I would love to see.

There are, cessaroni does make larger motors, you can also purchase them from ATK, Aerojet, and others. Its just when you start getting into S and larger motors they definitely aren't hobby motors. The larger the motors the more paperwork and related support facilities required for them. Also of course the more $$$ required as well.

This is a picture of a rocket launch with the motor the size you are talking about, it's an Improved Orion, originally came out of a hawk surface-to-air missile. The motor is an S with around 600 lbs of propellant.
This is one of the smallest commonly used sounding rocket you will find, other than loki darts and such. If you are a university you might have a chance to pick up one of these motors, last time I knew they were around $50k + what you would need to pay for launch services.

493289main_TessCaswell_3.jpg
493288main_TessCaswell_2.jpg


Went to 98km with a max speed of Mach 3.2.
 
BUT... If there was a responsible company such as cesaroni or aero tech that made motors of this size who could ship them following all protocol.

That I would love to see.

Sent from my iPhone using Rocketry Forum


Well here ya go then......

............ CTI "S" motor. Cost 60,000.00 + shipping on a dedicated truck. 2.50-3.00 per mile + special fees. This one was 3,800.00 ship.

It flew to 460,000 ft.

Got some extra cash laying around? They will be happy to send one your way...:smile:

100_2589.jpg

100_2590.jpg
 
Back
Top