Fixit epoxy clay

A5tr0 An0n said:

Simply using Jb weld for tacking on the fins and then using fixit for the fillets, will not prevent the fillets from cracking.

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The only source of failure is due to the hard landings. That is pretty much the down side in my point of view to epoxy clay. If anything this can be avoided as long as you have a reasonable chute and the fins are not going to hit the ground first.

This is tempting me to make another rocket that will travel to Mach 2 and use epoxy clay fillets for my fins. If anything it will take me awhile before finishing it. However, it is a test that is just begging for it.



Alexander Solis

TRA - Level 1
Mariah 54 - CTI RedLightning- I-100 - 6,345 Feet

AfterBurners said:

You guys have no clue how to use the clay so therefore you feel its inferior to other epoxies when in fact you lack the necessary techniques to produce a flawless fillet using clay. You can fillet a complete rocket in a couple of hours verses several hours or days ... Really

Oh yeah and you don't have to mask or deal with the epoxy running over your rocket. The problem a lot of people on here is they seem to think one way is the only way to do something when in fact there's more than one way to skin a cat.

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Afterburners,

How about telling us how to use the clay. You obviously know something we don't.

cecil

cecil said:

Afterburners,

How about telling us how to use the clay. You obviously know something we don't.

cecil

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Its simple, you make some awesome fillets lol. No offense Afterburners, I agree with you in some aspects.

In simple terms, until it has been proven that the epoxy clay can handle speeds up to mach 2. Only then will people stop seeing it as an inferior product. Until now there have been horror stories that I have yet to have myself that obviously leads to others look down on it as well.

I have recently made a glass tube and I thought why not go for it? Make a rocket that will go mach 2, and have fins with epoxy clay fillet to find out the limits to the clay.


Alexander Solis

TRA - Level 1
Mariah 54 - CTI RedLightning- I-100 - 6,345 Feet

Apogee has videos on using the stuff go watch them.

AfterBurners said:

Apogee has videos on using the stuff go watch them.

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I'll say it again, you need proof on extreme flights, not slow and low.

Those videos only prove that they can be just as good as long as you avoid the hard landings.


Alexander Solis

TRA - Level 1
Mariah 54 - CTI RedLightning- I-100 - 6,345 Feet

littlemisterbig said:

Hey guys,
Would 1/4 pound of fixit clay be enough for 4 fin fillets? In case your not sure which product i am referring to, its this: https://www.apogeerockets.com/Building_Supplies/Epoxy_Clay/FIXIT_Epoxy_Clay
I am planning on using it on a 2.6 inch madcow dx3 fg.

thanks, Littlemisterbig

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Getting back to the OP's question.... Is a 1/4lb enough?

Well just ask Tim Van milligan... here's what it says on his web site >>> "After adding fillets to more than five rockets, I've barely made a dent in the 1/4 lb tubs. I call that money-saving!"

I'm pretty jazzed about this... I want to SAVE MONEY - just like Tim says.

- To that end, I recommend buying your Fix-it epoxy clay DIRECTLY from the manufacture... AVES.

They sell the 1/4 lb kit - for $2.00 LESS than Apogee. https://www.avesstudio.com/fixit-category/fixit

AfterBurners said:

Apogee has videos on using the stuff go watch them.

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I saw Ms. Apogee's presentation weeks ago. I noticed she used Elmer's glue and Fixit on the same joints.

I used this stuff to do the fillets on my L2 rocket. Took that K740 motor like a champ. Didn't take the drop from the car that well however.

I will say it's not the best for applications such as this, and at the time I didn't know that. I may just completely replace all the fillets on my rocket eventually using proline as it makes a much better fillet that this does.

T34zac said:

I used this stuff to do the fillets on my L2 rocket. Took that K740 motor like a champ. Didn't take the drop from the car that well however.

I will say it's not the best for applications such as this, and at the time I didn't know that. I may just completely replace all the fillets on my rocket eventually using proline as it makes a much better fillet that this does.

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How fast did the rocket go? Yet again the horror story of them all that shows the weak point of the clay. If your going to use the clay. For certain handle your rocket with care.


Alexander Solis

TRA - Level 1
Mariah 54 - CTI RedLightning- I-100 - 6,345 Feet

I usrf the fix it clay to make fillets on the space shuttle and work just fine

I use Fix-It to repair broken toilets...

A good point about the purpose of the fillet was made and then glossed over. If you're doing cosmetic fillets, then many products work, but if you want structural fillets, then you should use an epoxy with penetrating power.

I'm skeptical about the epoxy clay because it won't flow into the irregularities of the material at the microscopic level and it will be easy for voids to be formed that you can't see from the outside. I have not used it myself, because I think there are superior products (Aeropoxy for strength, SuperFil for cosmetic).

Those who think that the kind of epoxy doesn't matter should review my epoxy strength testing article.

I have used fix-it epoxy for fillets and for the back of rail-buttons. My experience has shown it to be brittle and not take impacts very well, cracking fillets and popping off the back of rail buttons. I have had better luck with using red Barron 30 min flex cure epoxy mixed with chopped fiberglass or carbon fiber, and in some cases micro-ballons, for fillets. Now that I am approaching Mach I am becoming more aware of potential heat issues and getting into the ProLine 4500 epoxy mixed with chopped carbon fiber for fillets.

SinfulDarkLord said:

How fast did the rocket go? Yet again the horror story of them all that shows the weak point of the clay. If your going to use the clay. For certain handle your rocket with care.


Alexander Solis

TRA - Level 1
Mariah 54 - CTI RedLightning- I-100 - 6,345 Feet

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The RRC3 recorded M1. I have been told that may be inaccurate, but it also went off at an angle. Since the RRC3 is barometric only, it only records vertical speed.

T34zac said:

The RRC3 recorded M1. I have been told that may be inaccurate, but it also went off at an angle. Since the RRC3 is barometric only, it only records vertical speed.

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Was it custom built or a kit? What diameter and weight?


Alexander Solis

TRA - Level 1
Mariah 54 - CTI RedLightning- I-100 - 6,345 Feet

SinfulDarkLord said:

Was it custom built or a kit? What diameter and weight?


Alexander Solis

TRA - Level 1
Mariah 54 - CTI RedLightning- I-100 - 6,345 Feet

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It's the Apogee/Madcow Level-2. It's a 4" diameter. Slightly modified, the original kit has a 16" NC. Mine has a 20" NC. It weighs about 9.5 lbs with an empty Pro54 4grain casing

T34zac said:

It's the Apogee/Madcow Level-2. It's a 4" diameter. Slightly modified, the original kit has a 16" NC. Mine has a 20" NC. It weighs about 9.5 lbs with an empty Pro54 4grain casing

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Might have ended up just a tad under Mach 1. At any rate the epoxy clay can hold up to mach 1 just fine. I will be making a build for a test up to mach 2.


Alexander Solis

TRA - Level 1
Mariah 54 - CTI RedLightning- I-100 - 6,345 Feet

SinfulDarkLord said:

Might have ended up just a tad under Mach 1. At any rate the epoxy clay can hold up to mach 1 just fine. I will be making a build for a test up to mach 2.


Alexander Solis

TRA - Level 1
Mariah 54 - CTI RedLightning- I-100 - 6,345 Feet

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The reason I had built to the way I did was because I was following Apogee's directions on building it. I wasn't on the rocketry forum yet and had no knowledge of all the advanced build techniques that everyone uses.

When I get the chance, I am going to redo the last three fins so they are a lot more structurally sound.

Anyway, good luck with the M2 build.

Ive decided to go with rocketpoxy.

or this: https://www.loctiteproducts.com/p/epxy_5min/overview/Loctite-Epoxy-Instant-Mix-5-Minute.htm

Just go with rocketpoxy. You wont be disappointed and apogee has an 8-oz. package that should be enough.

https://www.apogeerockets.com/Building_Supplies/Adhesives/G5000_RocketPoxy_8_oz_Package




Alexander Solis

TRA - Level 1
Mariah 54 - CTI RedLightning- I-100 - 6,345 Feet

Ok, and what's that rocket in your avatar picture?

SinfulDarkLord said:

Just go with rocketpoxy. You wont be disappointed and apogee has an 8-oz. package that should be enough.

https://www.apogeerockets.com/Building_Supplies/Adhesives/G5000_RocketPoxy_8_oz_Package

Alexander Solis

TRA - Level 1
Mariah 54 - CTI RedLightning- I-100 - 6,345 Feet

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+1, you can't really go wrong with it. Strong stuff with lots of uses.

littlemisterbig said:

Ok, and what's that rocket in your avatar picture?

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That is Giant Leap's Mariah 38.


Alexander Solis

TRA - Level 1
Mariah 54 - CTI RedLightning- I-100 - 6,345 Feet

Dang, sure is a pretty looking rocket. Did you build one, if so how hard was it to assemble the shotgun system?

littlemisterbig said:

Dang, sure is a pretty looking rocket. Did you build one, if so how hard was it to assemble the shotgun system?

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Yes I've built both the M38 and M54. I have build threads on them. I even made a video tutorial for the M54. The shotgun assembly is really not that hard. It is getting it set up for the flight that provides a challenge. Overall not that difficult and is a great minimum diameter bird.


Alexander Solis

TRA - Level 1
Mariah 54 - CTI RedLightning- I-100 - 6,345 Feet

OK cool, i might try one of those sometime.

SinfulDarkLord said:

In simple terms, until it has been proven that the epoxy clay can handle speeds up to mach 2. Only then will people stop seeing it as an inferior product.

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Saying "Good to mach X" is almost useless when describing fillet epoxy choices. There are so many other factors at play when it comes to a fin caused shred. While it might work for you, it might not work from someone with a completely different fin material and fin shape. Those two factors are much larger then your epoxy choice. With the right fin, 5 minute epoxy would work up to mach 2.

Alex

Aksrockets said:

Saying "Good to mach X" is almost useless when describing fillet epoxy choices. There are so many other factors at play when it comes to a fin caused shred. While it might work for you, it might not work from someone with a completely different fin material and fin shape. Those two factors are much larger then your epoxy choice. With the right fin, 5 minute epoxy would work up to mach 2.

Alex

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Yes that does represent a good point also. Other factors also include diameter size and all that. However, it does not mean the clay is inferior. You said it yourself, with the right design 5 minute epoxy can hold up to mach 2. Fingers crossed I picked a fin profile that will experience at least some flutter.


Alexander Solis

TRA - Level 1
Mariah 54 - CTI RedLightning- I-100 - 6,345 Feet

I think that in order to test the suitability of the clay you'd have to have a series of rockets with progressively smaller fillets and test it to failure. And as mentioned there are a lot of other variables in flight that make a serious determination of suitability very difficult.

More valid would be actual strength and impact testing with designed experiments in more of a laboratory setting, which when combined with known fin loads would be of some use.