New fiberglass for Wildman's

As many of you have heard Wildman’s is no longer purchasing from Performance Rocketry.
Wildman’s had sufficient supplies to last several months before this was done.
And still have a substantial amount of it.
We are now getting in the new manufactures tubing and I am pleased to see the difference in the final product.
The tubes are coming in washed, clean and uniform in size with straight cut ends
There will be slight differences in some of the tubes so they won’t all be compatible with old manufactures material.
If you need to match old tubing please make note of that in your order.
The nose cone selection will shrink some, but what we offer you can get:clap:
Please be patient with us as we build our nose cone selection over again.
We will be offering new products such as the polycarbonate cones not only in 38 and 54mm but more sizes for this superior product.
As always Wildman’s looks forward to serving your rocketry needs in the future.

Will you be selling the tubes themselves or just using them in kits?

If you are selling the tubing, when do you expect it to be available?

Sent from my iPhone using Rocketry Forum

We will be selling tubing as well as kits .
We will be phasing in the new tubing as we run out of the old tubing.

Polycarbonate nose cones that actually fit thin-walled 29mm G12 - Oh, please, Please, PLEASE! No one makes one that is both light and durable.

Great news. Competition is good.

cwbullet said:

Great news. Competition is good.

Click to expand...

competition is very good. This should be interesting.

2.6 inch FTW !

And a Von Karmen to go with it !

Make some thin wall also and lets crank some product to give blue tube a run for its money in some Class 1 rockets ..

With consistant cuts in the tube now you can make a real no glue av bay kit option that includes a sled ..no paper tubes and pound of hardware ..no $20 printed plastic. Simple strong and straight forward ..but lighter than traditional fg solutions.

Kenny

I'd LOVE to see a 38mm thinwall FG kit, something in the 12 oz range so an AV bay could be added and have it still come in under the Fascist 500g CA Class 1 weight limit. I was hoping my Shape Shifter Mini would make it, but it's just a bit heavy. Of course, it could probably handle lawn darting from 2K, too...

I'm glad to hear the new tubing will have clean end cuts. What's the difference in weight?

And what are the dimensions? This is thin-wall stuff, right?


Sent from my iPhone using Rocketry Forum

cwbullet said:

Great news. Competition is good.

Click to expand...

If you ask me there is no competition. Tim's shipping costs are far better and his personal service is second to none!

bill2654 said:

If you ask me there is no competition. Tim's shipping costs are far better and his personal service is second to none!

Click to expand...

I agree with this. The only way to make it cheaper is to make it yourself.

I'm tired of having to cut as much as a 1/4" off of a tube length just to square up the ends. This only applies to a couple of sources, who will remain unnamed. I am also, tired of having to wash my tubes before I bring them into the house/workshop. All of these are very welcomed changes. What I really would like to see is some competitive pricing. FWFG tube are currently VERY expensive. I know the market is limited, but that is a manageable supply chain issue.

JMZawodny said:

What I really would like to see is some competitive pricing. FWFG tube are currently VERY expensive.

Click to expand...

Out of curiosity, what's your baseline here? Compared to what manufacturers like Dynacom or Hawk Mountain offer(ed), FWFG is dirt cheap these days. I'm curious if you have a secret way of controlling costs

I remember when you paid half more for FW and a lot more for G10.

bill2654 said:

If you ask me there is no competition. Tim's shipping costs are far better and his personal service is second to none!

Click to expand...

+ 100 to that Bill...
I think this is fantastic news....
Most have trouble squaring the ends of glass tubing cut out of square....
The mold release was a big pain,,, but manageable...
The quality of the cut tube ends is very important to the finished product.....

Man, am I glad to hear this......

Good for you Tim....

Teddy

Now if we can just get back to "natural" green FG color...
I want the translucent tubes & NC back....please!
The black stuff is useless for night rockets.

FredA said:

Now if we can just get back to "natural" green FG color...
I want the translucent tubes & NC back....please!
The black stuff is useless for night rockets.

Click to expand...

Agreed.

patelldp said:

Agreed.

Click to expand...

+2.

Awww. I'm just getting used to not painting

Actually I'm getting to too many black rockets. I'll likely be painting some soon anyways.

Add me as one more who would like to see some sort of return to "natural green".

I love the black fiberglass - have a few rockets made with it - and it's definitely very cool. However, I think it's something that's better as a "special" or an option. As the only choice, I don't like it ("any color you want, as long as it's black" - H. Ford). Old-school green/translucent is more versatile, makes some steps in building easier, is good for marking during the construction process, can be painted any color you want, and yes it's better for night rockets. Yes, it's nice to have something to set you apart from the competition, and "natural" is what's available from all those other suppliers, but Wildman already stands apart as something special in other ways. Besides, anyone else could easily offer black anytime they wanted, and if that's the thing that differentiates you from the competition, you could lose that edge very easily.

If I could have it all? Give me lots of color choices - black and "natural" among them.
What probably makes the most business sense? Offer "natural" as the standard, and black as a occasional/special/etc. option - OR vice-versa.
If you can only do one? Make it "natural/green", please.

s6

FredA said:

Now if we can just get back to "natural" green FG color...
I want the translucent tubes & NC back....please!
The black stuff is useless for night rockets.

Click to expand...

Now that hes gone black, you are asking him to go back. .

..from what I've heard, that doesnt happen.

Thin wall natural would be ideal for night launch..

Kenny

ROTFLOL!!!! It's a good thing I wasn't drinking anything when I read that.

KenRico said:

Now that hes gone black, you are asking him to go back. .

..from what I've heard, that doesnt happen.

Click to expand...

Kenny wins for post of the week! :wink:

daveyfire said:

Out of curiosity, what's your baseline here? Compared to what manufacturers like Dynacom or Hawk Mountain offer(ed), FWFG is dirt cheap these days. I'm curious if you have a secret way of controlling costs

Click to expand...

My baseline is pricing out the parts for a project and seeing a shopping cart that totals to well over $1000. I have a standing list of projects and the parts they require. When airframes, nosecones, or G10 sheets go on sale, I'm ready to go shopping. We have had a couple of nice sales already this year at ~20% off. I wonder where the profit*volume peaks. It is good to have new sources of material entering the market, but what we need is more of a factory direct model. I suspect the real issue is that with the relatively small market, the manufacturers do not want to keep a sizable stock of tubes on hand for direct sales. Large volume sales to distributors is better for them. I wonder how many "middle men" there are before the product gets to the vendors (Wildman, Rocketry Warehouse, Mad Cow, ...) we ultimately buy from. For good or bad, the internet has done a really good job of squeezing out the middle men.

JMZawodny said:

My baseline is pricing out the parts for a project and seeing a shopping cart that totals to well over $1000... It is good to have new sources of material entering the market, but what we need is more of a factory direct model. I suspect the real issue is that with the relatively small market, the manufacturers do not want to keep a sizable stock of tubes on hand for direct sales. Large volume sales to distributors is better for them. I wonder how many "middle men" there are before the product gets to the vendors (Wildman, Rocketry Warehouse, Mad Cow, ...) we ultimately buy from. For good or bad, the internet has done a really good job of squeezing out the middle men.

Click to expand...

I know that middle-man wise, two of those three buy direct from suppliers, and one /is/ the supplier (or at least a family member thereof!). There are between zero and negative one middle men involved

FWFG ain't exactly cheap but it's worth it IMO for the longevity and dimensional stability you get out of building with it. The pricing is what it is because the manufacturers need to recoup massive tooling costs to make these specialty-market parts (i.e., precision mandrels, winders, and grinders). Filament wound gas pipe, etc. is made in much larger quantities with no need to grind the OD or maintain tolerances like we do, so it's a little cheaper.

daveyfire said:

I know that middle-man wise, two of those three buy direct from suppliers, and one /is/ the supplier (or at least a family member thereof!). There are between zero and negative one middle men involved

FWFG ain't exactly cheap but it's worth it IMO for the longevity and dimensional stability you get out of building with it. The pricing is what it is because the manufacturers need to recoup massive tooling costs to make these specialty-market parts (i.e., precision mandrels, winders, and grinders). Filament wound gas pipe, etc. is made in much larger quantities with no need to grind the OD or maintain tolerances like we do, so it's a little cheaper.

Click to expand...

A number of vendors have had 15% off sales recently. Washing it is not that bad. Even ends would be great, but if more QC means more cost, I will take the minor pain of uneven ends. Seems to me like the current tubes being supplied are pretty good compared to not that long ago.

Because an item is offered briefly for sale at a discounted price does not mean a vendor is capable of sustainably selling the item at that price. Margins, especially in hobby rocketry, aren't exactly huge. Give the vendors some credit here-- they're doing a fantastic job keeping the supply chain functioning!

daveyfire said:

Because an item is offered briefly for sale at a discounted price does not mean a vendor is capable of sustainably selling the item at that price. Margins, especially in hobby rocketry, aren't exactly huge. Give the vendors some credit here-- they're doing a fantastic job keeping the supply chain functioning!

Click to expand...

+1..
I couldn't agree more.....

Teddy

daveyfire said:

I know that middle-man wise, two of those three buy direct from suppliers, and one /is/ the supplier (or at least a family member thereof!). There are between zero and negative one middle men involved

FWFG ain't exactly cheap but it's worth it IMO for the longevity and dimensional stability you get out of building with it. The pricing is what it is because the manufacturers need to recoup massive tooling costs to make these specialty-market parts (i.e., precision mandrels, winders, and grinders). Filament wound gas pipe, etc. is made in much larger quantities with no need to grind the OD or maintain tolerances like we do, so it's a little cheaper.

Click to expand...

Well that is what I actually expected. I just needed to verify that. I'm also well aware of what the tooling costs are and that the fabrication process is not geared towards high volume. All of which increased costs.

FWFG is just about all I use these days. Though I can still wish it was less costly. Vendors put things on sale for a lot of reasons (loss lead, inventory reduction, new customers) and I'll still take advantage of a sale when I can find one. I would be stupid not to. I tend to keep a decent amount of stock on hand, I have well over 100 feet of it sitting near by. I also still buy it at normal prices too when I run out or something new comes out (like the recent introduction of thin-walled tubing, which was available for well over a year now if you bothered to ask for it - nice stuff by the way).

I do still wonder whether the production and transportation efficiencies could improve if the costs came down some and increased demand. Profit is not measured by profit per item but by profit per item times volume. I work with a lot of new fliers interested in high power rocketry. Invariably I see the sticker shock reaction in their eyes when they find out what stuff costs (everything, not just FWFG).

I also have to rethink the impact of a new supplier entering the market. Is the volume there, is there a new technology that makes production less expensive, or is there simply enough mark up to allow a new player to come in and under cut? What happens in the long run? Does a supplier go away? Is there consolidation? ... I need to stop this and just finish building a rocket.