Black Nitrous 75mm Minimum Diameter

I though it would be best to share this build with everyone in TRF. I will be helping out a student from my former high school in making a minimum diameter rocket that it's main objective is to break the sound barrier and survive. The key components have been chosen and we have agreed on a design, but have yet to put it in rocksim. More on that later on. The rocket is composed of reinforced blue tube with 9oz. E-glass. The fins will be made out of carbon fiber. The sheets will be home made. Recovery will be utilized by the usual dual deployment method. It will be a 75mm minimum diameter rocket going on an L610 Hypertek hybrid engine.

Alex-
Mach Shock
Mach Soup (the homemade kind!)
N2cOol
Black Nitrous
Carbonated
Bury Me in the Sky
Black Thunder
Sound and Fury
Carbon Highbred
3 Wings and a Prayer
Alex and His Buddy's Minimum Diameter Single Break Rocket

Black Nitrous sounds right for this rocket. Thanks Dave.


Alexander Solis

TRA - Level 1
Mariah 54 - CTI RedLightning- I-100 - 6,345 Feet

SinfulDarkLord said:

Black Nitrous sounds right for this rocket. Thanks Dave.


Alexander Solis

TRA - Level 1
Mariah 54 - CTI RedLightning- I-100 - 6,345 Feet

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It's all good buddy- I only charge 1 picture per name!

fyrwrxz said:

It's all good buddy- I only charge 1 picture per name!

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Haha, you crack me up man.


Alexander Solis

TRA - Level 1
Mariah 54 - CTI RedLightning- I-100 - 6,345 Feet

An update to this thread is that due to delays in getting some orders in, the design has changed (mainly on materials) where we will be using a glassed blue tube instead of going with the carbon tubes we had planned to do. Second is we decided to ditch the tender descender and go with standard dual deployment.

More updates to follow throughout the year.


Alexander Solis

TRA - Level 1
Mariah 54 - CTI RedLightning- I-100 - 6,345 Feet

I went ahead and took pictures of the fiberglassing of the blue tube. Not much, but you get the idea.

First off is applying epoxy to the blue tube. The glass used here is 8HS E-glass. One layer should do since it is a heavy cloth.



No pictures of the layup, sorry. Once the glass was neatly wetted out. I put a layer of teflon peel ply.



More tomorrow.


Alexander Solis

TRA - Level 1
Mariah 54 - CTI RedLightning- I-100 - 6,345 Feet

Gas Passer Extreme


Mark Koelsch
Sent from my iPhone using Rocketry Forum

Removed peel ply and the final finish turned out better than I thought.



One down, one more to go.


Alexander Solis

TRA - Level 1
Mariah 54 - CTI RedLightning- I-100 - 6,345 Feet

markkoelsch said:

Gas Passer Extreme


Mark Koelsch
Sent from my iPhone using Rocketry Forum

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I wonder if that joke would be allowed. It does go right with it.


Alexander Solis

TRA - Level 1
Mariah 54 - CTI RedLightning- I-100 - 6,345 Feet

I think it is a great name for the rocket. I can see no reason the name would be allowed.

Examples of other fun names for rockets. A bud has a large, black, clustered rocket with air starts. It's name is the Belching Black Bastard.


Mark Koelsch
Sent from my iPhone using Rocketry Forum

Sorry to divert from the original thread, but do you think a glassed blue tube like this could withstand mach 2.1-2.5? I've got a MD in the works and some blue tube that would work perfectly.

RAHagen said:

Sorry to divert from the original thread, but do you think a glassed blue tube like this could withstand mach 2.1-2.5? I've got a MD in the works and some blue tube that would work perfectly.

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What diameter are you going with? I have heard of blue tube to mach 2 with a 54mm, but not anything larger than that. If anything I think glassing it will aid in making it stronger and last longer.

If anything I recommend ACP Composite's tightly woven 6oz. plain weave fiberglass. Adding two layers will hardly increase thickness and should be really strong.

Hope this helps and good luck.


Alexander Solis

TRA - Level 1
Mariah 54 - CTI RedLightning- I-100 - 6,345 Feet

markkoelsch said:

I think it is a great name for the rocket. I can see no reason the name would be allowed.

Examples of other fun names for rockets. A bud has a large, black, clustered rocket with air starts. It's name is the Belching Black Bastard.


Mark Koelsch
Sent from my iPhone using Rocketry Forum

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Thing is, that it's a school project and they launch with a group called, SystemsGo. That is why I wonder if it will be allowed or not. Its fun to joke around every now and then, but I feek like these guys might take it literal.


Alexander Solis

TRA - Level 1
Mariah 54 - CTI RedLightning- I-100 - 6,345 Feet

SinfulDarkLord said:

What diameter are you going with? I have heard of blue tube to mach 2 with a 54mm, but not anything larger than that. If anything I think glassing it will aid in making it stronger and last longer.

If anything I recommend ACP Composite's tightly woven 6oz. plain weave fiberglass. Adding two layers will hardly increase thickness and should be really strong.

Hope this helps and good luck.


Alexander Solis

TRA - Level 1
Mariah 54 - CTI RedLightning- I-100 - 6,345 Feet

Click to expand...

Thanks, I was hoping to do a 38mm build. The reason why I'm asking is because I happen to have a length of Blue tube left from another project and I'm trying to figure out if it could survive before I do anything with it. I'm still a ways away from starting but I'm still trying to get as much info as I can.

I was thinking it might be possible to keep the blue tube intact above mach 2 if I were to do a layer of fiberglass on the outside.

RAHagen said:

Thanks, I was hoping to do a 38mm build. The reason why I'm asking is because I happen to have a length of Blue tube left from another project and I'm trying to figure out if it could survive before I do anything with it. I'm still a ways away from starting but I'm still trying to get as much info as I can.

I was thinking it might be possible to keep the blue tube intact above mach 2 if I were to do a layer of fiberglass on the outside.

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One layer of glass will do fine.

Make a thread, its always great to watch other's build threads.


Alexander Solis

TRA - Level 1
Mariah 54 - CTI RedLightning- I-100 - 6,345 Feet

Second tube is glassed, now I just have to wait for full cure.



I got my new scale and massed the first glassed blue tube and weighs in at a whopping 770 grams. I should have made a before and after, but I didnt think about it.




Alexander Solis

TRA - Level 1
Mariah 54 - CTI RedLightning- I-100 - 6,345 Feet

Both blue tubes are now glassed and ready to be used. Second tube weighs 766 grams. I really cant do much at this point so for now this is all I can post.

Glassed Blue tubes:




Alexander Solis

TRA - Level 1
Mariah 54 - CTI RedLightning- I-100 - 6,345 Feet

You have done a real nice job glassing those tubes, they look great! I cannot wait to see this project thru...

DRAGON64 said:

You have done a real nice job glassing those tubes, they look great! I cannot wait to see this project thru...

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Thanks dragon, I am looking forward to this project as well.

Some heads up on what is to come later, hopefully if the materials come in soon.

1/8" carbon plates will be hand made. More on that when the carbon gets here.

E-bay will have the AIM XTRA 2.0 altimeter.

Dual deploy will be utilized with streamers as the apogee event and this red and white fruity chutes Iris ultra 48" chute as the main event.




Alexander Solis

TRA - Level 1
Mariah 54 - CTI RedLightning- I-100 - 6,345 Feet

Hey guys sorry, but no pictures on the lamination. I laminated 10 layers of 5.7oz. carbon fiber inbetween two G-10 fiberglass sheets. I did a small compression with C-clamps and then removed them since the G-10 flexed and that would create irregularities on the thickness of the sheet.

Tomorrow I will check up on the cured laminate and take pictures.

Here it is 10 layers of 5.7oz carbon compressed down to a thickness of 0.06" thick.

Here is a picture:


I really need some feedback, because this is getting rediculous and I am fed up with it. Notice that in some areas it does not have the peel ply texture. Once again it is almost as if the peel ply sucked up all the resin. I even over saturated it (only first and final layers). This was with Aeropoxy once again.

SinfulDarkLord said:

Here it is 10 layers of 5.7oz carbon compressed down to a thickness of 0.06" thick.

Here is a picture:
View attachment 248704

I really need some feedback, because this is getting rediculous and I am fed up with it. Notice that in some areas it does not have the peel ply texture. Once again it is almost as if the peel ply sucked up all the resin. I even over saturated it (only first and final layers). This was with Aeropoxy once again.

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You are not getting full saturation of all of the layers. The problem with peel ply is if you get uneven coverage, it will soak up the excess before it gets to the dry areas of the cloth. That's what it looks like you've got going on. With peel ply, you need full coverage of all layers, not just relying on it to eventually soak through under compression.

https://www.harborfreight.com/25-cfm-vacuum-pump-98076.html

I doubt you got any where near even compaction using G10 and Clamps unless the g10 was a few inches thick.

flynfrog said:

https://www.harborfreight.com/25-cfm-vacuum-pump-98076.html

I doubt you got any where near even compaction using G10 and Clamps unless the g10 was a few inches thick.

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Good point. In the absence of a vacuum setup, I use slabs of granite and all of my weight plates on top.

Did you wet out each layer or all 10 layers at once? Maybe a dumb question, but there is some answer to your problem (and it isn't related to the peel ply). By the way, a couple of 16x16" tiles from Lowes makes this plate stuff easy.

Jim

JimJarvis50 said:

Did you wet out each layer or all 10 layers at once? Maybe a dumb question, but there is some answer to your problem (and it isn't related to the peel ply). By the way, a couple of 16x16" tiles from Lowes makes this plate stuff easy.

Jim

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Yes I wet out each layer one by one. Carbon saturates real easy. Sometimes I just don't see the need for using vacuum bagging, because of its fast wet out. I'll have to get those tiles for myself. My former teacher is not too keen on wasting his own money to make larger panels. That is why we used the 1/8" thick G-10 plates that were available.

Thanks Jim

SinfulDarkLord said:

Yes I wet out each layer one by one. Carbon saturates real easy. Sometimes I just don't see the need for using vacuum bagging, because of its fast wet out. I'll have to get those tiles for myself. My former teacher is not too keen on wasting his own money to make larger panels. That is why we used the 1/8" thick G-10 plates that were available.

Thanks Jim

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When I make a panel like that, I spend perhaps 1-2 minutes with a foam roller working in the epoxy on each layer. It's hard to tell when the carbon gets wetted, and it takes more work to wet out carbon than fiberglass. The peel ply gets wetted out too. I don't skimp on the epoxy, and with compression, I'll get an inch or so of epoxy squeezed out around the perimeter of the plate.

Jim

Binder Design said:

You are not getting full saturation of all of the layers. The problem with peel ply is if you get uneven coverage, it will soak up the excess before it gets to the dry areas of the cloth. That's what it looks like you've got going on. With peel ply, you need full coverage of all layers, not just relying on it to eventually soak through under compression.

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At first that is what I thought. However, considering that this panel is cured and strong I am confident I did saturate all the layers.

Beat me to it... Carbon does not wet out nearly as easily as it appears to.

Generic procedure:

Wet out the bottom where the first layer of carbon will go. Damp to wet, not soaked, if that makes sense. Put on dry fabric. Roll the fabric on, with a roller which is only damp, not wet, pulling up the epoxy from the bottom. When it has done as much as it will, then add a little more epoxy to the roller and and roll it in, bringing the top layer back to the damp to slightly wet range. Add next layer, and repeat.

If one were to roll a wet roller on top of dry fabric, one traps air. You don't want to trap air. Therefore you want to do most of the wetting from the side that is already wet - that is, the bottom. Think of it as a roller induced form of resin infusion.

Also, that is a job which just begs for some sort of vacuum apparatus. A 6"x6" panel (pretty small, right?) is 36in^2 area. Just 10psi pressure is 360 pounds of force that needs to be applied uniformly. A 12" square sheet and 20psi? Now you are talking 2880 pounds of force, and it needs to be uniform. Vacuum makes the job much easier.

Do you have a food saver around somewhere?

Gerald