41% Downscale Binder Design Raptor (NOW with Upper Canards!)

Well, you can thank Dragon64 for this... In the thread "What is a good level 2 kit" he posted about the Raptor being an "elegant" design. So, I'd just have to go and take a look at one. Nuts, now I gotta have one.



The image above is a first draft (very rough) of the design. It's not complete, and is missing the booster motor mount and other components.

Fortunately for me, when I found out about Semroc's impending closure (way back when they announced it), I was fast (and lucky) enough, to score a pair of BNC-60G4's (the same nosecone used for my Velociraptor downscale build). Now, I've got something to build with one of them. The rest of the necessary parts are already in my spares box, this should go pretty quick (compared to other builds of mine).

My plans are to build it as a BT-60, two stage design. Perhaps this time I won't have all the problems with figuring out the booster's recovery (it's going to be a lot lighter, and less aerodynamic, and thus less likely to come in ballistic (and fast)).

This will be my first 12 finned rocket... Joy!

I'll edit this post with my .ork sim images when I get home... but for now, I'll share the image that sold me on it...



Original Cobra*/Raptor:
41% Downscale Raptor:Now, if I can figure out how to paint one that looks like that pretty metallic blue (reminds me of oxidized heated metal such as you'd see on/around a jet's afterburners). Chrome will be Monokote trim.

To Be Continued...
Jim

*Binder Design's original design was called the Cobra, and later was renamed Raptor.

K'Tesh said:

Now, if I can figure out how to paint one that looks like that pretty metallic blue (reminds me of oxidized heated metal such as you'd see on/around a jet's afterburners). Chrome will be Monokote trim.

To Be Continued...
Jim

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That's just Rustoleum metallic blue. That exact rocket is hanging on the wall above my lathe. I see it every day.

Binder Design said:

That's just Rustoleum metallic blue. That exact rocket is hanging on the wall above my lathe. I see it every day.

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Hi Mike,

How was that prepped? (e.g. Silver undercoat over grey primer?)

Thanks!
Jim

K'Tesh said:

Hi Mike,

How was that prepped? (e.g. Silver undercoat over grey primer?)

Thanks!
Jim

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Grey primer, then the metallic. It is a one shot deal, no base coat. Nothing fancy there.

Binder Design said:

Grey primer, then the metallic. It is a one shot deal, no base coat. Nothing fancy there.

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Nice!

I get to save paint!

A bit of trivia...The Raptor was designed by Scott Binder about twenty years ago. It was originally named the Cobra. Binder Design had to change the name when attorneys from another rocket company got involved.

Commercial hybrid rocket motors were fairly new back then and the Raptor was marketed to take advantage of these newly certified motors, namely Hypertek.

Anyway, it is an old design and this is the most interest this kit has had in the last 15 years or so. The year before we discontinued production, we sold like two of them all year. We only keep what sells, so that's why we stopped producing them. If there is demand, I can certainly bring it back with updated instructions and decals. But people have to be serious about it, because updating this kit would be a lot of work if it doesn't sell.

Here's what I've noticed about human nature.....When a kit is discontinued, I always get people out at a launch that say they'd "buy one right now" if I had one. Then when I say I brought a half dozen of them in my trunk, they just kind of lose interest.

I asked Mike how much a full scale Raptor would sell for and was told that it's available for $139.99. Interested parties can contact him to pick one up.

K'Tesh said:

Well, you can thank Dragon64 for this... In the thread "What is a good level 2 kit" he posted about the Raptor being an "elegant" design. So, I'd just have to go and take a look at one. Nuts, now I gotta have one.

Click to expand...

I have always loved this design, and it has inspired many copies or Raptor Wannabees over the years. To me, the Raptor has the better lines. As for my "elegance" remark... while the Velociraptor has the same lineage of the Raptor, and has many upgrades... the curves threw me off, as I liked the more straight cut angles of the Raptor... that's just me. Looking forward to the build.

Binder Design said:

A bit of trivia...The Raptor was designed by Scott Binder about twenty years ago. It was originally named the Cobra. Binder Design had to change the name when attorneys from another rocket company got involved.

Commercial hybrid rocket motors were fairly new back then and the Raptor was marketed to take advantage of these newly certified motors, namely Hypertek.

Anyway, it is an old design and this is the most interest this kit has had in the last 15 years or so. The year before we discontinued production, we sold like two of them all year. We only keep what sells, so that's why we stopped producing them. If there is demand, I can certainly bring it back with updated instructions and decals. But people have to be serious about it, because updating this kit would be a lot of work if it doesn't sell.

Here's what I've noticed about human nature.....When a kit is discontinued, I always get people out at a launch that say they'd "buy one right now" if I had one. Then when I say I brought a half dozen of them in my trunk, they just kind of lose interest.

Click to expand...

I owned one of these kits once... my wife bought it for me, along with an avionics kit as a Christmas present. I bought carbon sleeving and everything to put this rocket together with... As many of my rocket endeavors have gone, I sold the lot. Thanks for the history Mike, always nice to know "the rest of the story..." so to speak.

K'Tesh said:

I asked Mike how much a full scale Raptor would sell for and was told that it's available for $139.99. Interested parties can contact him to pick one up.

Click to expand...

I have been working a little here and there with Mike to get my order in... I'm looking at mounting a hybrid in my rocket, so it is kind of a meant-to-be scenario...

Ok, this one has sit for a little while... Managed to get more of the .ork figured out. I expect that I'll spend actual build time on this sometime this weekend.

For anyone who is looking to do their own build on this... I've attached a .pdf of the fins.

[EDIT] This design was built using the dimensions provided by the .rkt file found on rocketreviews.com... As you read on, you'll find that Mike Fisher later advised me that the upper canard fins are wrong, and should have a 90 degree angle on the back edge of them.

View attachment Raptor downscale fins.pdf

Made some progress this weekend... I managed to get the booster built, and the main fins are glued in (as is the MMT). This design is getting the TTW treatment. The fillets still need to be done (as does the LL).



The upper canard fins are a work in progress, and as you can see in this photo with the Velociraptor Downscale, the nosecone is ready for paint.

A few hours later...



You may notice that it seems longer now... In my preparations to glue the upper canard fins on, I had to re-measure the body tube, and found that I had cut it 1/2" short.

I'm glad I double-checked the lengths before completely ruining the work (looks like it's going into VRaptor #2).

All that stands to be done now is glue on the LL's, do the fillets, build/install the baffle, the parachute/shock cord, and do the paint/decal work.

BTW, VRaptor #2 has now got some of its fins (cut out). VRaptor #1 has 1/8" thick fins, #2's will be made from 3/32".

TBC...
Jim

This build is coming along nicely. I'll bet she will fly nicely on an Aerotech E18.

Upper canard fins are wrong. The bottom edge should be 90 degree angle from vertical. Easily seen in the first photo you posted. Sorry I didn't catch that sooner for you.

Binder Design said:

Upper canard fins are wrong. The bottom edge should be 90 degree angle from vertical. Easily seen in the first photo you posted. Sorry I didn't catch that sooner for you.

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Aw... Nuts...

FWIW: I based my build on the .rkt file found on rocketreviews.com.

In the first photo (not image), now I think I can see that they are 90 degrees from vertical, however it is hard to tell w/o blowing up the image. So, what are the dimensions of the upper canards? [edit] from the computer I'm using at school, it is clear, but my home machine it's harder to see.

That said, I still like the job I've done, so I'll be happy to let this one slide. If/When I build a 2nd Raptor Downscale, I'll be sure to fix it in that version. I'm hoping though, that the 2nd Raptor will be a full sized version. I just need to get the $140.00 together (and the $200.00 for the VRaptor) so I can do just that.

K'Tesh said:

That said, I still like the job I've done, so I'll be happy to let this one slide.

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Agreed, I wouldn't worry about it. The dimensions look about right except for that one edge, almost like the whole fin is skewed.

DRAGON64 said:

This build is coming along nicely. I'll bet she will fly nicely on an Aerotech E18.

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I'd like to get my rocket back (instead of sending it into low earth orbit).

As I'm not into the electronics portion of rocketry (yet), it won't be getting maxed out motors for a while. I built it to accept 24mm x 2.75" booster motors, and 24mm x 3.75"sustainer motors, but I'll probably do its first launch with a 24mm booster, and an 18mm sustainer to play it safe.

I'm flying one of these (well the full-size one with correct canards as Mike cut them ) at MWP12 this weekend on a K1750R. Should reach mid-6K ft range.

dixontj93060 said:

I'm flying one of these (well the full-size one with correct canards as Mike cut them ) at MWP12 this weekend on a K1750R. Should reach mid-6K ft range.

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Photos! AND Videos! I want 'em... Please take a few and post'em!

K'Tesh said:

Photos! AND Videos! I want 'em... Please take a few and post'em!

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I'll try (I'm not the best with cameras); but deserves it--I love my Raptor!

dixontj93060 said:

I'll try (I'm not the best with cameras); but deserves it--I love my Raptor!

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Thanks!

Some before, during, and after would be nice.

K'Tesh said:

I'd like to get my rocket back (instead of sending it into low earth orbit).

As I'm not into the electronics portion of rocketry (yet), it won't be getting maxed out motors for a while. I built it to accept 24mm x 2.75" booster motors, and 24mm x 3.75"sustainer motors, but I'll probably do its first launch with a 24mm booster, and an 18mm sustainer to play it safe.

Click to expand...

Aw, the E18 is a "pussy-cat heh heh

K'Tesh said:

Thanks!

Some before, during, and after would be nice.

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Hey I know this thread was a million yrs ago, but where did you separate the body tubes? The original location or other? And if you used the original local, how did you do the recovery system? I’m starting on a BT56 version.