Armed Pirates at BALLS

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K'Tesh

.....OpenRocket's ..... "Chuck Norris"
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First, if this has been discussed already, I'm sorry for the rehash, but I didn't see it.

I went to the OROC club meeting last Thursday, and while there, one of the members told us of his adventures with a 2 stage rocket that went over 100K feet there. Unfortunately, I don't know what his name was, and I didn't hear what the name of the rocket was.

Obviously the flight went well, and we got to watch the video of the prep and the onboard video of the flight. The only problem they had was with recovery. Apparently, there were guys camped somewhere near BALLS, and when the rocket landed on the far side of them they were found by the recovery crew. The recovery crew was following the GPS info from the rocket (Kate equipped) but didn't have any topo maps of the area, and these guys (armed with pistols on their hips) did. The recovery chatted with the campers, and got a look at their topo maps, then set out to find the rocket. Apparently seeing an opportunity for profit, the campers used guile, the recovery crews GPS data, and their off road vehicles, managed to get to the rocket unseen by the recovery crew. The pirates then found the rocket, and returned with it to the BALLS launch site, looking for a reward.

Since the full crew had gone out on recovery, nobody who could claim ownership was present at the launch site. The pirates only then returned the rocket without compensation after some tense moments when they realized that the owners were not going to be back for several hours, as they were still out in the field looking for the rocket. The recovery crew eventually found tracks all around the recovery area, and eventually figured out that it had been found, and taken by someone before they could.

The take away... If you're launching at BALLS or some other high altitude event, make sure your team has a topo map to figure out your recovery area, and don't trust the guys you might bump into out there. They may be nice, and appear to be helpful, but they may have other agendas.

Also, our speaker told us about how dehydrated got while he was out there looking in vain for the rocket. When he got back to where he could get something to drink he said that he downed 8 Gatoraids and took several hours to recover from it. I didn't get a chance to tell him this, but it is possible to die from drowning (water intoxication) in such a situation (I remember watching some account of men who stumbled out of Death Valley after being lost there for some time, only to have one member (William Robinson*) die from drinking too much water when they found it).

Pointy Side Up!
Jim

*I know... I know...

[video=youtube;OWwOJlOI1nU]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OWwOJlOI1nU[/video]
 
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Interesting story.
I never heard a word about this happening before this.
If he had spoke up we could have the BLM ranger have a talk with these "pirates".
I will ask the guys who did RSO if they know of it.

Added-- two of the RSOs heard about it long after, Sunday.

Mark
 
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Oh... BTW, the rocket's power supply cut out before the camera could capture images of the pirates.

Another takeaway from this... Someone pulls a stunt like that and you see it, pull out your phone and photograph them (video's better... you get voices too), the rocket, and the license plate of the vehicle.
 
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That's just a sickening story- there are some nasty people out there. Thanks for posting it though- hadn't considered anything like that happening.

Nate
 
That's just a sickening story- there are some nasty people out there. Thanks for posting it though- hadn't considered anything like that happening.

Nate

What's worse, is one of the campers had apparently gone to BALLS before (as one of us). I don't know if he was involved in the attempted theft or not.

I wish that the speaker would give us a first hand account here, and fill out any gaps in my info.
 
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Given the cost of the rocket... it could be considered Grand Theft if they "keep" it.
 
Mark emailed me and asked me if I knew anything about this... as it happened, I was the RSO at the table when these 'pirates' came up. There were three of them, as I recall, all of them wearing sidearms, which being out in the middle of nowhere just makes sense to me. The told me they'd found this rocket, had it with them, and I told them we'd locate the owner and let him know it had been found, and to just bring it up to the LCO table and lay it on the ground. They hinted around about a reward for it, but all of them were in a light hearted mood. I called out over the PA system and FRS a few times to try to get someone from that two-stages team to come up and talk to these guys and claim the sustainer. We stood up at the table for a while, just BS'ing with a couple of other rocket guys, when someone from the two-stages camp came up, said that most everyone was still out searching, they were unable to raise them on the radio's as they were too far out. A reward was mentioned again, and the team mate kind of laughed about it, and then they all walked over to the 'Pirates' truck to hand over the sustainer. What happened after they walked away from me and the table, I don't have any idea. All three of the 'pirates' were in good spirits, not drunk, but I think maybe hoped for a reward. They knew the terrain out in that area, so I believe they really meant to help out. If something was negotiated later once they got to their vehicle, that's up to someone else to comment on. From my perspective, they seemed like decent guys.

Ron
 
Mark emailed me and asked me if I knew anything about this... as it happened, I was the RSO at the table when these 'pirates' came up. There were three of them, as I recall, all of them wearing sidearms, which being out in the middle of nowhere just makes sense to me. The told me they'd found this rocket, had it with them, and I told them we'd locate the owner and let him know it had been found, and to just bring it up to the LCO table and lay it on the ground. They hinted around about a reward for it, but all of them were in a light hearted mood. I called out over the PA system and FRS a few times to try to get someone from that two-stages team to come up and talk to these guys and claim the sustainer. We stood up at the table for a while, just BS'ing with a couple of other rocket guys, when someone from the two-stages camp came up, said that most everyone was still out searching, they were unable to raise them on the radio's as they were too far out. A reward was mentioned again, and the team mate kind of laughed about it, and then they all walked over to the 'Pirates' truck to hand over the sustainer. What happened after they walked away from me and the table, I don't have any idea. All three of the 'pirates' were in good spirits, not drunk, but I think maybe hoped for a reward. They knew the terrain out in that area, so I believe they really meant to help out. If something was negotiated later once they got to their vehicle, that's up to someone else to comment on. From my perspective, they seemed like decent guys.

Ron

Glad it was less scary than what I had heard, but still it was a more than a little uncool IMHO for them to send the recovery team on their way (miles out of their way (due to terrain)) and then go and grab it themselves w/o leaving so much as a note. One of the other club members said that they were present when the guys approached with the rocket, and the guys were hesitant to even show the rocket to them in the truck.

Again, I'm 2nd hand info here, so I hope that the OROC members involved will weigh in soon.
 
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This sucks to hear. Also points out the natural stupidity in allowing guns. Sorry gotta be said. Hope something gets resolved out of this
 
This sucks to hear. Also points out the natural stupidity in allowing guns. Sorry gotta be said. Hope something gets resolved out of this

At no point in any of this has it been mentioned that the guns were relevant at all. As mentioned from the first hand account, that's out in the middle of no where. Having firearms is as common as carrying matches while camping.

It seems the second hand info here is inflamed, and focused on the irrelevant fact they were wearing firearms. It's not like they hijacked the rocket at gunpoint and held it hostage. It's much more likely they were bored and figured it'd be something to do. As for hinting at a reward, it's surely in poor taste when the rocket wasn't exactly 'lost', but it's hardly piracy.
 
This sucks to hear. Also points out the natural stupidity in allowing guns. Sorry gotta be said. Hope something gets resolved out of this

What does this have to do with guns?
None of the participants at the launch are walking around open carry but I know for sure guns are in some vehicles. These guys came out of the desert where many are carrying.
One of the other LCOs said no money was exchanged.
 
At no point in any of this has it been mentioned that the guns were relevant at all. As mentioned from the first hand account, that's out in the middle of no where. Having firearms is as common as carrying matches while camping.

It seems the second hand info here is inflamed, and focused on the irrelevant fact they were wearing firearms. It's not like they hijacked the rocket at gunpoint and held it hostage. It's much more likely they were bored and figured it'd be something to do. As for hinting at a reward, it's surely in poor taste when the rocket wasn't exactly 'lost', but it's hardly piracy.

1+

I see Pete is from the UK, no more needs to be said.
 
My feeling from the discussion was that some felt uncomfortable with the open display of guns. That said, I can completely understand the desire by some to carry guns when out in the sticks (protection, defense, signalling, and target shooting, etc).
 
I may be getting paid just $7.25 the hour, but come on. Even I would not sink that low as to steal someones rocket. That is just pathetic.


Alexander Solis

TRA - Level 1
Mariah 54 - CTI RedLightning- I-100 - 6,345 Feet
 
Hey when a rattlesnake pops out just wack it with an umbrella, pour some tea on it or something right?

Get the car and squish it lmao.


Alexander Solis

TRA - Level 1
Mariah 54 - CTI RedLightning- I-100 - 6,345 Feet
 
At no point in any of this has it been mentioned that the guns were relevant at all. As mentioned from the first hand account, that's out in the middle of no where. Having firearms is as common as carrying matches while camping.

It seems the second hand info here is inflamed, and focused on the irrelevant fact they were wearing firearms. It's not like they hijacked the rocket at gunpoint and held it hostage. It's much more likely they were bored and figured it'd be something to do. As for hinting at a reward, it's surely in poor taste when the rocket wasn't exactly 'lost', but it's hardly piracy.

Well stated, DizW

Yeah, it was a little shifty (or a similar word) for them to misdirect the recovery crew, and also to leave that crew wandering around in the heat when the rocket had been recovered. They did not display the best judgment or maturity, IMHO. But hey, if that's the worst they did, their actions were far from criminal.

Discussion of the gun thing does not belong in this thread, either by the original post or in comments by anyone else.
 
The flyers involved were not concerned enough to say anything to the launch director (me) so I am not worried about it.
The area around the launch sites at Black Rock are used by many others, the rocket activities attract these people and some have guns. They do not wave the guns around, they are in holsters or cases in the vehicle. We have never had an issue or felt threatened--if I had I would have summoned the BLM Ranger to handle it.
I do not know if the flyers were sent on a goose chase or if they wandered lost, it is usually the latter.
From what Ron said to me I think asking for a reward was wishful thinking or a poor attempt at humor.
And second hand observations and opinions mean nothing.

M
 
Sounds like they almost experienced a "Bad Day at Blackrock," starring Spencer Tracy. :grin:
 
That project belonged to Neil Anderson and Steve Cutonilli.

This isn't unheard of - back on the East Coast there's several sites with landowners that require a ransom if a rocket lands on their property. Greed is really a bummer.
 
I received this as an email this morning. First hand info.
He does not post here
M



Mark,

As XXXX and I. We're camped next to Steve and Neil. We got to meet the so called Pirates as they returned the rocket. One was a retired BLM Agent or Park Ranger in Arizona, and one was an Iraqee vet or still current service member. 3 out of 4 were carrying m1911 in open carry and did not bother me at all! Story as told directly to us was that Neil and crew arrived at their camp and they tried to give them directions to the rocket as they had seen it come down. Then there was a discussion on GPS coordinates and then Neil and crew took of in a different direction to the dismay of said Pirates :) who waited a while for them to come back and go in the right direction. When that did not happen they went and picked it up and brought it to their camp and waited another hour for them to return. This is when they brought it back to the RSO table. Talked to them for about an hour about the rocket and the retired agent about ham radios which seemed to be his big interest. They even left a business card with the rocket so if Neil and crew wanted to get ahold of them. Sounds like a story was told to be more interesting than it was, and not my place to embarrass the crew with what I know. These guys were never a problem as far as I am concerned and Neil and crew should be thankful they found and returned it.

XXX XXX
 
Ok, it sounds like I misunderstood the gravity of the issue. I'm sorry about that.

Still, when planning on being out in the desert, carry a topo map, and have plenty of fluids (with electrolytes) to help keep yourself safe.
 
Well that sounds like a much better situation. It's easy for information to be miscommunication, and I'm glad that's what happened here. Happy to hear everyone turned out alright
 
I would say that simply carrying a topo map is not enough. I worked with an officer in the Army who thought we were close to that object a couple weeks niches away.

And while a GPS is wonderful, it is wise to back it up with a map. Though in some situations you might be able to simply know how to get out and reorient yourself. You should mark your map with the base location just in case your GPS dies.


Kirk
 
This sucks to hear. Also points out the natural stupidity in allowing guns. Sorry gotta be said. Hope something gets resolved out of this

What stupidity? There is no way I'm heading out to the desert if I'm not "Packing". The gun is just a tool.
 
For our foreign correspondents, 37 of the American states allow some form of "open carry" of firearms. Nevada where BALLS takes place is such a state. Perfectly legal.
 
This sucks to hear. Also points out the natural stupidity in allowing guns. Sorry gotta be said. Hope something gets resolved out of this

Guns are the reason we celebrate the 4th of July and you don't Pete. It's common sense, not natural stupidity . . .
 
What stupidity? There is no way I'm heading out to the desert if I'm not "Packing". The gun is just a tool.

I agree. While I haven't carried a weapon to Black Rock, I wouldn't discount anyone for "packing" while camping out there.
Been to BR and Balls for a few years. First year, we had a high altitude attempt fail. Looking for the sustainer, we went into the hills/mountains off the playa. While searching up quite high, we found distinctive tracks. Got home and looked up what we saw - most likely mountain lion tracks.

I don't blame the "campers" for carrying.
 
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This sucks to hear. Also points out the natural stupidity in allowing guns. Sorry gotta be said. Hope something gets resolved out of this

Guns are the reason we celebrate the 4th of July and you don't Pete. It's common sense, not natural stupidity . . .

+2 on the hball's response.

Pete, don't bring 2nd Amendment/gun rights issues into this thread--nothing will make it go south quicker.
 
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