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Gary Byrum said:
fit into this group This bothers me. Why should I feel the need to "FIT", into a group, when I am already a part of it? It makes no difference what power level you fly in. It's about the hobby, the build, the fact that your build made the grade. The fact that your rocket met your expectations. Screw a bunch of ego boosting fallacies, This ain't about this! It's about sharing our thrill, no matter what level it's on. Nuff said..
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Because using CF on ANY MPR rocket is simply overkill, and shows a lack of understanding of design and stress. This IS rocket science after all!
 
Woody's Workshop said:
For me it's a matter of available open space. 2 stage C's are easialy lost.
I think for others, like me but can't do mush about, it's a matter of out growing LPR.
You want more of a build chanlange...You want go higher than you have been, and get it back.
If I live close to flat desert, I'd be alot farther along than I am.
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I regularly fly f's in a city park to 1500'. If I had ready access to flat desert, I'd be flying K's and above! (with a waiver, of course)
 
Income. ie someone making 100k a year can spend what it takes and enjoys HP has the elegance to enjoys with pride the long prep tame and likes it better than fast turn arounds.
VS someone making 30k a year and does his best to have something to fly. BP LP rockets the job done. And will step up when affordable.
Now take some somewheres in the middle income range and they can afford to go bigger and more expensive, but doesn't have the luxury of goin all the way. But maybe can do L1 or L2 easy. Has a vast aray of rockets and mother selections. Limited only by affordabiliy. Injoys fast turnarounds and takes pride at the altitutes.
 
Woody's Workshop said:
For me it's a matter of available open space. 2 stage C's are easialy lost.
I think for others, like me but can't do mush about, it's a matter of out growing LPR.
You want more of a build chanlange...You want go higher than you have been, and get it back.
If I live close to flat desert, I'd be alot farther along than I am.
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It can also be a matter of a bigger whoosh-pop experience, not necessarily higher. My club has LPR launches where you are limited to G motors and a 1,000-foot ceiling. So if you like big, loud launches, the challenge is to build the biggest loudest rocket that will launch on a full-size G, but not break 1,000 feet.
 
RecoRocket said:
The G150 isn't a MPR motor. Notice that "150" thing...... It's one of the G's you need L1 to buy....
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Splitting hairs. Using a G65 would give similar altitude performance and still break mach. CF is a good application for altitude records in mid-power motors.
 
Zebedee said:
Splitting hairs. Using a G65 would give similar altitude performance and still break mach. CF is a good application for altitude records in mid-power motors.
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A G65 is much different than a G150. You'll get no where close to the stress and altitude with a G65. And remember that 150 part of the motor specification! CF on a MPR bird in general is simply silly, IMHO. It's the "suspenders, belt, velcro, and CA" approach to MPR. Way over build/secure.
 
RecoRocket said:
A G65 is much different than a G150. You'll get no where close to the stress and altitude with a G65. And remember that 150 part of the motor specification! CF on a MPR bird in general is simply silly, IMHO. It's the "suspenders, belt, velcro, and CA" approach to MPR. Way over build/secure.
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G65 on a min diameter 24mm bird can get you to mach 1.3 and beyond - what materials would you suggest for that application?

Edit - remembering that you're going for minimum weight to get the altitude
 
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I'm also willing to bet that the 24mm CF MDR was layed up by hand, designed to be as thin as possible and thus as light as possible.
 
Zeroignite said:
I'm also willing to bet that the 24mm CF MDR was layed up by hand, designed to be as thin as possible and thus as light as possible.
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I seem to remember reading that somewhere. This rocket in particular typifies what I was referring to as viewing MP as HP. That rocket for all intents and purposes is a shrunken down mini HP rocket that so happens to be flown on a G. I think there is a lot of room in the hobby for builds like these. I would like to do something similar with lightly glassed phenolic where every consideration to reducing weight was made. Something that will go stupid high on a $20 motor. I would like to over the course of a few years get closer and closer to achieving the perfect balance of performance and cost. I think I need to start with building a launch tower!
 
If you're having fun, you're doing it right.


Also I believe the "fitting in this group " was ment as a classification of rocket or type of rocketeer. Not a socially fitting in. I doubt any of us do that :)
 
RecoRocket said:
Because using CF on ANY MPR rocket is simply overkill, and shows a lack of understanding of design and stress. This IS rocket science after all!
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Well I can do over 5000 ft. with a CF rocket and a G motor and don't worry if it in water

bh24.jpg
 
I sometimes see Rockets here in Mid-Power that fly on High-Power Motors or Motors that require L1, but nobody really speaks up against it and the Threads don't get moved, so next 29mm Build I do is getting posted in Low-Power.
 
Oh you are gonna be in for it Top. Those low power Nazis are a force not to be messed with.


Because I am addicted, this is coming from my phone.
 
grouch said:
Oh you are gonna be in for it Top. Those low power Nazis are a force not to be messed with.


Because I am addicted, this is coming from my phone.
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That's OK, they'll get over it, just like I get over it when Folks post their HPR Birds flying on 38mm G-XXX in the MPR Section.:wink:
 
To be fair...I built two or three rockets as mid power, and posted threads here....that I may have stuffed L1 motors in later... But those HPR guys are scary...I didn;t wanna post there at the time, lol.
 
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RecoRocket said:
Because using CF on ANY MPR rocket is simply overkill, and shows a lack of understanding of design and stress. This IS rocket science after all!
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I couldn't agree with you more. Maybe someone using carbon fiber on a MPR is basically experimenting? I dunno. I do know this though, I can launch a rocket this size, made with balsa fins, weighs in at a whopping 14 oz, on a 29mm F26. Got a great flight too!

GB 2014 1.jpg

Woody's Workshop said:
Income. ie someone making 100k a year can spend what it takes and enjoys HP has the elegance to enjoys with pride the long prep tame and likes it better than fast turn arounds.
VS someone making 30k a year and does his best to have something to fly. BP LP rockets the job done. And will step up when affordable.
Now take some somewheres in the middle income range and they can afford to go bigger and more expensive, but doesn't have the luxury of goin all the way. But maybe can do L1 or L2 easy. Has a vast aray of rockets and mother selections. Limited only by affordabiliy. Injoys fast turnarounds and takes pride at the altitutes.
Click to expand...

Forgive me woody, but it sounds like you are classifying people based on their income. Not everyone is dying to get into the"mile high club", it's a matter of preference. I know someone that makes 120G a year, and has no desire for HPR. Like I said before, even if I could afford HPR, I wouldn't be interested. There are some of us that still appreciate the "Craft Of The Build". Not necessarily the detail involved with all the electronics and such. but the designing. The Crafting. The real art behind model rocketry. I know there's a lot involved with constructing a Hi Powered Bird, and I respect that. But it's an area of this hobby that I think lacks creativity.

Last launch I attended, the LCO took a serious interest in my Roto-Roc spin-off, heli recovery job. He gets to see all the stuff before it's launched, and needed a second look after my launch was over. We discussed the crudity and artless attention, and I explained it was a prototype, which was the reason for it's crude construction. That wasn't as important to him, as the construction methods I changed from what he was familiar with. Apparently he saw stuff that I did, that never crossed his mind and was impressed. He asked me if he could use my ideas on his own version. Permission granted! That's!......what blows my skirt up. Me putting a better twist on an existing idea, and inspiring someone.
 
RecoRocket said:
Because using CF on ANY MPR rocket is simply overkill, and shows a lack of understanding of design and stress. This IS rocket science after all!
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Let me ask this just how much weight did that carbon add to my rocket? Seeing how you guys know so much about it! That rocket I posted a picture of is 3oz.
On it's first flight on the F-35-11 it went 3970' The second flight was the F-51-13 and it went 4880'. Reason for the carbon is to stop the zippers on the body tubes because these rockets are still going 100' P/S when the chute deployed. Thats 8850' on a 132 N-seconds so on the G-118 with a 150 N-seconds it would go 10,600' My last 7 flights I've burned 570 n-seconds and I've got 29,800' Not bad for some stupid M/P rocket.
 
And I see it like this if wildman had a carbon fiber MD rocket it would be ok for him to sell all he wants. But when some guy comes in and post a picture of one he's over built the heck out of it. From what I've seen when some one starts to use glass or carbon he's going to over build them, So for me I've been scaling every thing back. No Plywood that just adds to the drag. Four 1/8" fins your pushing 1/2" through the air. Now I'm using G-10 thats .049 thick thats a 1/4 So it;s just been a slow process of scaling things back to where I can get these M/P rockets to where I want them. No Zipper's no busted fins, Here's one I launched today on a G-76-10 Less than 6oz. BT-60 with some fins like Eric from Badazz rockets does went 4878'
 
Most of my builds now are BT70 and BT80 tube sizes and up.I make my own centering rings and TTW fins.Motor mounts are 24 or 29mm.I really can't afford the cost of 38mm motors so I'll never get my Level1.This is as far as I can take it in this hobby but that's fine as it's still fun to do.
 
Estesbasher, you are at where I want to be headed with this aspect of the hobby. Well done. This is exactly the type thing I was hunting for. I will probably take my sweet time getting there but that's where I am going. I might start with phenolic and G10 then slowly mess with carbon. Again, well done.


Because I am addicted, this is coming from my phone.
 
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Coming into this late but to me mid-power is where APCP starts to take over from BP. E, F, and most G motors.
 
From what I have seen, if you want to see a lot of over building, glance at HPR. I once received encouragement to make a five pound rocket for L1.

My next goal is to get my L2 with a MPR capable rocket. More chances to fly at a much lower cost. May not go high, but people love seeing big rockets.


Kirk
 
1tree said:
From what I have seen, if you want to see a lot of over building, glance at HPR. I once received encouragement to make a five pound rocket for L1.

My next goal is to get my L2 with a MPR capable rocket. More chances to fly at a much lower cost. May not go high, but people love seeing big rockets.


Kirk
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Kirk,

My "Level 2" rocket flies on F's -J's. It is exactly what you are doing but may be on the opposite side of the spectrum. My L2 flight was with my LOC Nuke Pro Maxx with a J335. It went 7736' so it certainly got up there a bit. The rocket was about $60 and the motor was close to that. I figure it was one of the cheaper L2 flights, probably in the upper percent of altitude for L2 cert flights as well. BTW, the lions share of it's flights have been G's. I take huge pride in that. I chose the Nuke specifically because it was a medium power rocket capable of a J. No glass, just class.
 
I am glad to here that I am not the only one. Actually, I have most the materials as I got them initially to do my L1. It will be a 4 inch rocket being careful to manage weight. While still working out some of the details before construction my wife bought me a Wildman Sport for my birthday.

I added a tube in the nosecone to carry the Eggfinder my wife also bought for my birthday. So I figured with that I shouldn't have too much trouble finding the rocket even if it did get up to the reaches of visual tracking. Someone was able to visually track it, but it was still nice to not have to keep close eye on where it landed and walk right to it.

So now I hope to do L2 mostly to qualify to help as a range officer. With the lowest price J at about $50, that is a bit more than I care to regularly spend. But I can fall back to lower cost motors. Now one thing I do wonder is if your at a launch with a waiver, do you have to stay under it if your rocket doesn't need a waiver? Estesbasher is putting rockets well above our one mile waiver without going high power.


Kirk
 
JeromeK99 said:
I sort of think everybody so far has missed the point.

Mid "Power"... not size of rocket or even construction style. It's motor size... most commonly E, F & G "motors".

You are fairly limited to light weight construction for A, B, C and even D motors. An Estes 18mm C maxes out at what? 4 oz? A D12-3 is 14 oz? Even most of your G motors are limited to less than the 3.3lb (1500 gram) Federal definition of a Model Rocket. So your component materials and building styles are more of a function of your "Motor". Therefore we call it "Mid Power" and not "Mid Construction Parts" or "Mid Building Style".

Besides.. MPR is our own made up hobby jargon.


Jerome :)
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Well said!!!
 

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