Estes Rockets And Other Motor Brands
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dave carver
....what hump?
Yes. Aerotech/Apogee D10's come to mind as well as Quest motors. 18mm is 18mm. All the manufacturers now meet a common size or a bit smaller so the motors can fit into an Estes rocket. Usually it's the first on-line with a size that sets the standard but one exception I know of. FSI large motors were 28mm and I think they were the first in production. Why motors ended up being 29mm I'll never know.
watermelonman
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One of my favorite uses for Estes A, B, and C rockets is to cram an Aerotech D in and watch it sail!
You have to check the performance of the particular motor you're interested in. For example, an Estes C6 has a higher initial thrust than a Quest C6. If the rocket is heavy or draggy, you may not have the velocity off the rod you'd like and you'll put on an undesired aerobatic show. :y:
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The Quest C6 actually has a higher initial thrust, but it quickly drops off to a lower average thrust.
You can quickly compare the time-thrust curves of motors at RocketReviews.com. See:
https://www.rocketreviews.com/compare-motors---quest-c6-to-estes-c6.html
But, you're correct that the Quest C6 motors don't work well in heavier or draggier rockets which fly fine on the Estes C6 motors.
-- Roger
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I'm suitably embarrassed. Instead of checking the actual numbers, I went by observation of many failed flights and assumed a lower but longer profile all the way along the curve.
Especially embarrassing as I'm part of the NAR S&T East Coast crew.
shreadvector
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I'm suitably embarrassed. Instead of checking the actual numbers, I went by observation of many failed flights and assumed a lower but longer profile all the way along the curve.
Especially embarrassing as I'm part of the NAR S&T East Coast crew.
It is best to simply provide an answer that includes the link to the NAR S&T data sheets.
There's still time for you to do that....
JeromeK99
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Just so we don't totally confuse and scare the Original Poster (OP) from trying a different brand of motor, let's be perfectly clear.
Yes you can easily switch between Estes and Quest motor of similar or matching nomenclature such as a Quest B6-4 for an Estes B6-4 and even C6-3 or C6-5 varieties. 99% of average Low Power Rockets (LPR) are skinny, low drag and simple 3 or 4 fins. Using a Quest C6-5 in an Estes BT-60 sized 2 or so ounce rocket is absolutely safe and ok! Such a rocket on an Estes C6-5 might go 700-900 feet in the air. Using a Quest version you might loose 100 feet. Honestly, no big deal. Plenty of time to deploy a parachute and have a safe recovery. Now if you have a fat, heavy or draggy rocket that only gets 150 feet from an Estes C6-5 and barely deploys the recovery system in time, you would be best to think twice, maybe consider a Quest C6-3 with less delay or just stick to the Estes motor.
I launch Quest motors all the time! They offer some variety in the same ol' woosh...pop of Estes motor after Estes motor. As I said before, Quest motors are louder and have more dense and darker smoke.
Jerome
Yes you can easily switch between Estes and Quest motor of similar or matching nomenclature such as a Quest B6-4 for an Estes B6-4 and even C6-3 or C6-5 varieties. 99% of average Low Power Rockets (LPR) are skinny, low drag and simple 3 or 4 fins. Using a Quest C6-5 in an Estes BT-60 sized 2 or so ounce rocket is absolutely safe and ok! Such a rocket on an Estes C6-5 might go 700-900 feet in the air. Using a Quest version you might loose 100 feet. Honestly, no big deal. Plenty of time to deploy a parachute and have a safe recovery. Now if you have a fat, heavy or draggy rocket that only gets 150 feet from an Estes C6-5 and barely deploys the recovery system in time, you would be best to think twice, maybe consider a Quest C6-3 with less delay or just stick to the Estes motor.
I launch Quest motors all the time! They offer some variety in the same ol' woosh...pop of Estes motor after Estes motor. As I said before, Quest motors are louder and have more dense and darker smoke.
Jerome
shreadvector
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By the way, the S&T link to the Estes C6 data sheet seems to take me to the old Aerotech C6 reload data sheet.
Is this just me on my iPhone?
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I'm suitably embarrassed. Instead of checking the actual numbers, I went by observation of many failed flights and assumed a lower but longer profile all the way along the curve. Especially embarrassing as I'm part of the NAR S&T East Coast crew.
Don't be embarrased. In pratical terms, the result is the same. A friend launched a Dr. Zooch Saturn V or 1B using a Quest C6 motor. It flopped to the ground seconds before the ejection charge fired. An interesting flight to say the least.
Thanks for your service to the hobby!
BTW, I hope it is clear that it is just the Quest C6 that is dramatically different from the Estes C6 motors. The other Quest motors work much like their Estes equivalents. And, it should be said that the Quest C6 is a fine motor as long as you understand the difference and use it in a lighter, less draggy rocket.
-- Roger
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boomtube-mk2
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I recently launched my Estes “Mega Mosquito” on an 18mm Aerotech D13.
Next up will be a 24mm “E” something or other.
Next up will be a 24mm “E” something or other.
Well ok, Aerotech composite motors are more expensive than Estes black powder. So if price is a concern then Aerotech may not be an option for you. What "other" brand motors did you have in mind ?
BTW Aerotech doesn't make a C6 motor that I know of. Here is a nice list of available 18mm motors from Apogee: https://www.apogeerockets.com/Rocket_Motors/18mm_Motors?page=1
shreadvector
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billspad
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It's you.
Okay, not really. I just fixed it.
A few things got messed up during the move to the new NAR website. The good news is they're relatively easy to fix. Please let me know if you find any others.
ThirstyBarbarian
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I don't think Apogee makes their own motors, do they? Do you mean Aerotech?
Quest motors are interchangeable with Estes motors --- they are the same size and basically the same construction and the same propellant. They are close to the same price.
Aerotech motors are a different kind of construction and different propellant, so they pack a lot more punch for the same physical size of motor. The Aerotech motors will fit into the Estes rocket, but they will fly faster and higher.
So if you have a rocket that can fly on Estes A, B, C motors, it's going to fly pretty much the same on a Quest A, B, C motor. You can also put an Aerotech D10 or D21 in that same rocket, but be prepared for it to go very high and very fast!
hcmbanjo
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Sorry, I have to disagree.
Personally, wouldn't use a Quest C6-5 in a tall BT-60 sized model.
Say for instance, the Quest Stiletto.
The model could be too heavy to stay in the air under the lower sustained thrust.
Initial peak thrust is good, then look at the low sustained thrust.
There is also too much area for the (weaker than Estes) ejection charge to pressurize.
In minimum and smaller diameter models a Quest C6 (Chinese made) engine is fine.
Depending on the lot, Chinese made Quest engines can be 3/32" shorter than an Estes.
The engine could slide forward during boost and back at ejection.
3/32" is a small amount but might wear at an engine hook slit.
The thinner casings get hot and could melt a plastic fin can or retention ring.
Quest engines are different and should be used in appropriate models.
One problem and more confusion - there are plenty of German made (Quest re-labeled) engines out there.
The German made engines had silver nozzles.
The Chinese made engines have tan nozzles.
This is not meant to bash the Quest engines.
I like the Quest A6-4 and B6-4 engines and use them all the time.
They are loud and sooty, but that easily cleans up with a damp paper towel.
I just bought 125 more of them!
Zeus-cat
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My experience with the Chines Quest motors has been that they do burn hotter than Estes. A Quest C6-3 damaged the plastic motor mount on my Estes Chrome Dome. The Quest motors do offer an interesting alternative and different flight profiles than Estes motors.
ThirstyBarbarian
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If you are flying something marginal, then you might have a problem, but for a typical model built for Estes A, B, or C motors, you will not have any problem at all flying them on Quest motors. Something like a Big Bertha is probably one of the larger Estes models for 18mm motors, and mine flies fine on Quest motors, even though the rocket is built a couple ounces over stock weight. I've never flown a Quest Stilleto. Are you saying it can't fly on a Quest C6? It's odd that Quest would manufacture a kit that can't fly on its own brand of motors.
Anyway, I'm not sure if such a nuanced answer regarding the difference in thrust curve between the Estes C6 and Quest C6 is really what the OP is asking about. In general, swapping between Quest and Estes motors for the large majority of 18mm models will work fine, with some possible exceptions for large draggy rockets that fly marginally on Estes C6 motors. In that case, go for the Aerotech D10!
SCrocketfan
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Apogee makes a D3, E6, and F10, which are underpowered for average flying and mostly for lightweight minimum diameter rockets. Aerotech motors in 18mm are very powerful compared to C6s, but with a strong enough rocket they should work fine.
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