What a good level 2 kit

So, I'm returning to the hobby after many years away (25). I completed my level 1 last weekend with a LOC Precision 3" kit I built back in the day. I'm looking to build something with some of the modern components like:
Dual deployment
Motor retention
Data tracking
4" or larger

Are there any good kits out there that include all of this? Do I need to do more parts and pieces?
What are to current good manufactures and retailers?

I know you guys are a wealth of information.

What should I get next?

Let the dog pile begin!

Thanks,

Jack

How about a Madcow Super DX3. It's inexpensive and has room for an avionics bay so you can set up for dual deployment.

https://www.madcowrocketry.com/4-super-dx3/

I like the Excel 54mm with Dual Deploy kit $139.99 https://binderdesign.com/store/page2.html

He's including retention, but I really like the Aeropac retainers and adaptors: https://www.apogeerockets.com/Build...w-On_Retainers/54mm_AeroPack_Retainer_Flanged

For dual-deployment, tracking, and telemetry you might like https://www.apogeerockets.com/Electronics_Payloads/Altimeters/TeleMetrum?cPath=52_192&

The https://doghouse.blastzone.org/altimeter-kits.html wiring kits are pretty nice, too.

Lots of good choices. How about the Warehouse Rocketry Formula 98. I just picked up a 98 and the quality is very good. If you can wait untill late November, there are allot of great deals by the manufactures on Black Friday weekend. I don[t know of any kits that include everything needed. Especially when it comes to electronics.

https://rocketrywarehouse.com/product_info.php?products_id=484

To meet your given requirements, I'd go with the Formula98 from Rocketry Warehouse. It's a great basic 4" fiberglass kit, that would be fine for an L2. Would be a great introduction into "more modern components" (like fiberglass). To be sure, there is no NEED to go with fiberglass, but it does sound like you want to expand your horizons, and this would be a good instance to do so.

As with most any kit, you would need to buy recovery gear (chute/harness/etc.), avionics, and motor retention separately. Kits generally do not come with them, although some suppliers offer package deals.

For motor retention, other than the added expense, you can't go wrong with good old Aeropac retainers.

For data tracking and dual deployment (avionics/electronics), there are lots of great choices. I'm a huge fan of Ravens from Featherweight - they are very much "top of the line" stuff. Missileworks is another excellent choice - with the RRC3 being more expensive but having tons of great features if you want lots of data and/or flexibility, and the RRC2+ being more basic but at a great low price (still full DD capacity and apogee recording though). For a 4" L2 rocket, I might suggest a backup altimeter - perhaps a Raven or an RRC3 as your primary, with an RRC2+ as your backup?

Whichever way you go, you do know that it is mandatory to post lots of pics/stories/videos/etc. here on the forum about it, yes?

good luck either way,
s6

If you are really looking for a kit that comes with everything, then the Giant Leap Vertical Assault is it. Slotted airframe, fin can, motor retainer, AV bay with bulkheads, allthreads and sled, motor tube, centering rings, harnesses, hardward, payload bay, nose cone, main and drogue chutes, nomex chute protectors. Stands seven feet tall, but is a 3", not 4".

You will need to buy an altimeter, charge wells, paint, and a wiring kit.

I did my level two with these items, and these prices:

Giant Leap Vertical Assault kit $175.90
MissileWorks RRC2+ $44.95
Wiring kit from Doghouse $13.25
Charge wells from Doghouse $5
5-minute and 30-minute epoxy from Hobby Lobby
Paint from Advanced Auto

I upgraded to the high performance fin can, and I also got the 54mm-38mm adapter, both optional.

You don't really need fillets with the prefabbed fin can, but if you want them for show, you'll need something to make them with.

Also, I replaced the screw-eyes with closed ones from Grainger, but this is optional.

See my build thread if you want to see how it went.

I L-2ed with a LOC Magnum on a K550. But for the a lot of folks the 4" rockets with a payload bay (helps the cg and you can add dual deploy if wanted) works fine.
Mr. Bob
Countyline Hobbies
Grovertown, IN
574-540-1123
[email protected]
www.countylinehobbies.com

I just can't let a thread like this go without my :2:.

What kind of L2 flying do you want to do? You can get a lot of great kits from minimum diameter 54mm that will fly fast and high, to large diameter heavy rockets that will eat L motors all day. Sticking with a 4" diameter and 54mm MMT will give you a great rocket for the lower to mid range L2. If you go with something larger and with 75mm MMT, you can do the full range of L2 motors while keeping low and slow on the small J motors.

Just starting in L2, I would say the 4" with a 54mm MMT, DD and weight about 8 - 10 lbs. The Polecat Aerospace 5.5in MIM-104 Patriot is a nice 54mm, 10 lb DD kit that would work well. The 5.5in Black Brant II is a little more pricey, but it also comes with a 75mm MMT.

Handeman said:

What kind of L2 flying do you want to do?

Click to expand...

That's the single most important question to ask, right there.

The "best" kit for one person may be a lousy kit for someone else. What's "best" comes down to your interests and resources.

-Kevin

Chilli said:

Lots of good choices. How about the Warehouse Rocketry Formula 98. I just picked up a 98 and the quality is very good. If you can wait untill late November, there are allot of great deals by the manufactures on Black Friday weekend. I don[t know of any kits that include everything needed. Especially when it comes to electronics.

https://rocketrywarehouse.com/product_info.php?products_id=484

Click to expand...

+1 On the Formula 98. Did 2 cert without problems. RW is very popular in our club. What I like most: no paint!
Good service from them too. Lot of space for DD. Buy it when black friday comes.

I'm going to suggest a different route here, what was your favorite model 25 years ago? Take that model and upscale it 3x or 4x and use that for your level 2 cert. Design it in software, shop around for all the component and truly make it your own.

If you go this route do get yourself a copy of "Modern High Power Rocketry" by Mark Canepa

I'm sure many will disagree, but I feel that all cert attempts should be DIY designs and builds - I do enjoy building kits but cert attempts should demonstrate a certain level of mastery which can not come out of a box.


Sent from my iPad using Rocketry Forum

Wow, thanks for the suggestion this far.... I have not had time to review them all yet. On the fence on weather to jump into fiberglass or not.

Favorite.... Hmmm tuff one. I would say it was a scaled up glider from plans. I think we scaled to D powered with somewhere around 24" wing span. Flew under power 1 time. Lost track of after 30 minutes or so. It kept ascending as it spiraled in a thermal. I've always wondered how long it flew, and where it finally came down.

Not sure a 6' rocket glider with a J or K powered pod would be a good
idea!!

jpoehlman said:

Not sure a 6' rocket glider with a J or K powered pod would be a good
idea!!

Click to expand...

Then again, it might be a GREAT idea.

s6

Whatever kit you choose, you may enjoy my Certify in Style video (certify level 2 that is).

The Binder Design Velociraptor is a sexy option

I kind of like the Binder 4" Tyrannosaur. Any one have any additional details than listed on Binder's Site?

https://binderdesign.com/store/page2.html

Also, is it best to buy direct, or is there another outlet?

Thanks,

Jack

jpoehlman said:

I kind of like the Binder 4" Tyrannosaur. Any one have any additional details than listed on Binder's Site?

https://binderdesign.com/store/page2.html

Also, is it best to buy direct, or is there another outlet?

Thanks,

Jack

Click to expand...

When I asked him a similar question, he said buying direct from him in that case (the LHS has some of his stuff, but hasn't ordered new stock in a long time).

I scratch built for L2 based on this article >> LINK

Advantages for me were:
- Very low cost
- Easy construction
- Low altitude 2700' single (motor) deploy

Chilli said:

Lots of good choices. How about the Warehouse Rocketry Formula 98. I just picked up a 98 and the quality is very good. If you can wait untill late November, there are allot of great deals by the manufactures on Black Friday weekend. I don[t know of any kits that include everything needed. Especially when it comes to electronics.

https://rocketrywarehouse.com/product_info.php?products_id=484

Click to expand...

I like the no paint required parts of this!

scsager said:

I scratch built for L2 based on this article >> LINK

Advantages for me were:
- Very low cost
- Easy construction
- Low altitude 2700' single (motor) deploy

Click to expand...

Nice build. Considering a custom build of a ISQY Tomahawk at 1/3 scale or so.

K'Tesh said:

The Binder Design Velociraptor is a sexy option

Click to expand...

I miss the original Raptor... seemed way more elegant, and is a shame that it is no longer in the fleet at Binder Design.

DRAGON64 said:

I miss the original Raptor... seemed way more elegant, and is a shame that it is no longer in the fleet at Binder Design.

Click to expand...

Great! I have all of the parts in stock and will be waiting for your order to come through. Please place your order through our special order link @ https://binderdesign.com/store/page8.html

We'll make any of our past kits on a special order basis providing that we still have components in stock. We'll even custom make kits to order off of your rocksim file. We can make most anything on a special order basis, so there is no need to worry about our old designs being unavailable.

Binder Design said:

Great! I have all of the parts in stock and will be waiting for your order to come through. Please place your order through our special order link @ https://binderdesign.com/store/page8.html

We'll make any of our past kits on a special order basis providing that we still have components in stock. We'll even custom make kits to order off of your rocksim file. We can make most anything on a special order basis, so there is no need to worry about our old designs being unavailable.

Click to expand...

PM sent for pricing, thank you!

DRAGON64 said:

I miss the original Raptor... seemed way more elegant, and is a shame that it is no longer in the fleet at Binder Design.

Click to expand...

That is a Cool design... I found a build thread on it.


Not my rocket

K'Tesh said:

That is a Cool design... I found a build thread on it.

Not my rocket

Click to expand...

If you like that, check out the Velociraptor -- one of those kits that has always been in the "Way Cool" category, in my mind!

-Kevin

Another vote for Giant Leap. I got my L2 with an Escape Velocity, complete it's in the mid $100's. Besides being VERY complete, they're also practically indestructible... the Acme fin can and the Magna Frame tubing can really take a beating.

troj said:

If you like that, check out the Velociraptor -- one of those kits that has always been in the "Way Cool" category, in my mind!

-Kevin

Click to expand...

See Post #15

(or my downscale build)


My rocket

jpoehlman said:

So, I'm returning to the hobby after many years away (25). I completed my level 1 last weekend with a LOC Precision 3" kit I built back in the day. I'm looking to build something with some of the modern components like:
Dual deployment
Motor retention
Data tracking
4" or larger

Are there any good kits out there that include all of this? Do I need to do more parts and pieces?
What are to current good manufactures and retailers?

I know you guys are a wealth of information.

What should I get next?

Let the dog pile begin!

Thanks,

Jack

Click to expand...

A good base airframe to start from could be the Rocketry Warehouse Mad Dog Dual Deploy:

https://rocketrywarehouse.com/product_info.php?products_id=74

Very much a 3FNC rocket, but she also looks like a performer (to me).

What do you guys think about the 'Level 2' kit on Apogee (made by Madcow I believe)

Comes with everything included apart from electronics and shear pins.

Fibreglass, looks like it could take a K motor with ease.

I have just completed my Level 1, and am looking at this particular rocket for L2. It's a fairly easy option and comes with a step by step DVD, I suppose its a good introduction to advanced building techniques.

ArthurSull said:

What do you guys think about the 'Level 2' kit on Apogee (made by Madcow I believe)

Comes with everything included apart from electronics and shear pins.

Fibreglass, looks like it could take a K motor with ease.

I have just completed my Level 1, and am looking at this particular rocket for L2. It's a fairly easy option and comes with a step by step DVD, I suppose its a good introduction to advanced building techniques.

Click to expand...

I'm sure you get lots of opinions about Apogee and cost. I'll stay out of that debate and offer my 2cents. Over-all the kit seems pretty complete. It seems to be of good quality as well. Are there cheaper alternatives, yes but you need to make sure you compare apples to apples. The instructional DVD may be the item that tips the scales for you if your looking for additional guidance on the build. Apogee videos are quite detailed and instructional. Some vendors have instructions you can download and some offer no instructions.
There are numerous ways to build a rocket( av bays, ways to use epoxy, type of epoxy, and even the order of what to build the rocket are some examples) finding what works for you probably comes more from trying different things. Your local club or build threads here on TRF are good resources

Everyone is looking for something different in an L2 so it comes down to you. Also keep in mind DD is not required for L2 ( I did do DD for L2 but some like to keep it simple.)

The only negative about components I would have on kit you mentioned is the eyebolts. Personally I use welded or forged eyebolts or studs with eye-nuts. I have seen eyebolts of the type pictured straighten out.

Good luck with your decision. Post a build thread.