Have No Fear Even Though Ebola Is Here!

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tmacklin said:
Here is the root of the problem. Ignorance and cultural traditions in a primitive environment. Good luck with fixing this.

https://www.google.com/search?hl=en....8.0....0...1ac.1.55.img..0.8.828.cf_Q3kS4Hr8
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Even with government inspectors in clean, commercial food processing plants here in the US there are outbreaks of infected food poisoning:

2011
  • In 2011, The United States saw an outbreak of listeriosis from cantaloupes from Colorado that lasted from July to September. 30 people died, making it the second deadliest recorded U.S. outbreak since the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention began tracking outbreaks in the 1970s.
  • In June 2011, twenty people fell ill from eating cantaloupe from Del Monte Fresh Produce infected with Salmonella Panama from Guatemala. The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention had found that eight of the people sickened had eaten cantaloupes purchased from Costco, and they used the purchase records to figure out that the food in common was cantaloupes, and they had come from the same Guatemalan farm. Del Monte went to court to lift the import ban by the Food and Drug Administration. An investigation found that a pipe carrying raw sewage emptied into an open ditch about 110 yards from the farm’s packing house.
  • Andrew Williamson Fresh Produce is voluntarily recalling one lot of organic grape tomatoes sold under the Limited Edition and Fresh & Easy labels due to a possible health risk from Salmonella.
  • Emporia, Kansas based Tyson Fresh Meats (Tyson Foods) announces it is recalling 131,300 pounds of ground beef products due to possible E. coli O157:H7 contamination.
  • Publix Super Markets is issuing a voluntary recall for spinach dip because it may be adulterated with Listeria monocytogenes.
  • Roundy's Super Markets Inc., a Milwaukee, Wisconsin-based company with an establishment in Kenosha, Wisconsin, is recalling 360 pounds of breaded chicken breast products, that should have been fully cooked, because they may have been undercooked.
  • E. coli in strawberry from Newberg, Oregon killed one person on August 8, 2011. The Oregon Health Authority announced that they had linked at least 10 E. coli infections to a strawberry farm in Newberg, Oregon. Four patients had been hospitalized and an elderly woman died from kidney failure associated with her E coli illness. The strawberries were sold to buyers, who resold them at roadside stands and farmer's markets.
  • One dead in California from Samonella and 76 more people sickened in 26 states. On August 3, 2011, Cargill recalled 36,000,000 pounds of fresh and frozen ground turkey products produced at the company's Springdale, Arkansas, facility from February 20, 2011, through August 2, 2011, due to possible contamination from Salmonella Heidelberg.
  • In March and April 2011, Jennie-O recalled almost 55,000 pounds of turkey burgers because drug-resistant salmonella was found in its products.
  • In June 2011, Nearly 3,000 cases of Dole Food Company salad bags are being recalled after a random test found the bacteria listeria in a bag of the salad.
  • Contaminated papaya appears to be the cause of an outbreak of Salmonella food poisoning (salmonellosis) in 23 states, the Food and Drug Administration (FDA) is warning consumers. The FDA says papayas imported from Mexico and distributed by Agromod Produce Inc. of McAllen, Texas, is likely the source of 97 cases of Salmonella Agona. To date, 10 people have been hospitalized but there have been no reported deaths. As a result, all papayas sold before Saturday, July 23, 2011, have been voluntarily recalled by Agromod. The cases were reported between January 1 and July 18 in Arkansas, Arizona, California, Colorado, Georgia, Illinois, Louisiana, Massachusetts, Minnesota, Missouri, Nebraska, Nevada, New Jersey, New Mexico, New York, Ohio. Oklahoma, Pennsylvania, Tennessee, Texas, Virginia, Washington and Wisconsin. While ages ranged from 1 year to 91 years old, the average age of those stricken is 20. More than half of the cases are women. Texas had the most cases with 25 people falling ill. According to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC), Salmonella agona is one of about 2,000 strains of salmonella. Symptoms usually show up 12 to 72 hours after infection and can last up to seven days. Approximately 40,000 cases of salmonellosis, taking into account all cases from all pathologic strains, are reported each year in the U.S. The FDA is telling consumers to check for the Agromod brand stickers on fresh papayas before buying the fruit. Consumers and retailers who already have Agromod brand papayas should throw them out in a sealed container so that even animals can't eat them. Investigators say anyone who believes they got sick from eating papaya should see their doctor. The papayas could have been distributed nationwide in the U.S. and Canada. The FDA and CDC are working together with public health officials at the state level to identify additional cases. In a press release the agency said "the FDA is taking regulatory action to prevent potentially contaminated papaya from entering the United States, including increasing its sampling of imported papaya."

    2012
  • The 2012 salmonella outbreak has caused sickness in hundreds of people in the Netherlands and the United States via Salmonella-tainted salmon.
  • The 2012 peanut butter recall - Peanut butter and other products manufactured by Sunland Inc. caused sickness of 41 people in 20 states in the U.S. via Salmonella-tainted products.

    2013
  • July - August. The E. coli O157:H7 outbreak at Federico’s Mexican Restaurant in Litchfield Park, Arizona, (a suburb of Phoenix) has now grown to include 79 people. At least 23 people have been hospitalized in this outbreak. This is now the largest E. coli outbreak in the United States in years.[66][67] At least two people have developed hemolytic uremic syndrome (HUS), a severe complication of an E. coli O157:H7 infection that can destroy the kidneys. Symptoms of an E. coli infection include severe stomach cramps, diarrhea that may be bloody and/or watery, fever, nausea, and vomiting. Symptoms of HUS are the same as E. coli symptoms but include pale skin tone, small, unexplained bruises, bleeding from the nose and mouth, decreased urination, blood in the urine, and swelling. Victims have filed three civil suits against Federico’s parent company, Femex LLC, in Maricopa County Superior Court.
  • October - November. A company that makes prepared chicken salad has recalled more than 180,000 pounds of its products after some were linked to a few cases of Escherichia coli (E. coli) infection. CA-based Glass Onion Catering has recalled products distributed to AZ, CA, NV, NM, OR, TX, UT, and WA, the U.S. Department of Agriculture (USDA) says. So far, 26 people in 3 states have been diagnosed with the same E. coli 0157:H7 infection, the USDA says (15 of them say they ate products traced to Glass Onion Catering, which supplies midsized grocery store chains such as Trader Joe's with "gourmet grab and go" products, many featuring grilled chicken (chicken is rarely contaminated with E. coli). Most E. coli strains are harmless and even beneficial, but the aforementioned strain can cause abdominal cramps, diarrhea (which may be or become bloody), and dehydration. In most, that is the extent of any illness, but in some young, old, or immunocompromised patients, it can lead to widespread infection (sepsis) and/or a severe disease of the kidneys called hemolytic-uremic syndrome (HUS; which can lead to kidney failure), which may be deadly.

    2014
  • One person has died and three newborns have become ill in an outbreak of listeria (listeriosis) linked to Hispanic-style cheese. The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) said on Friday, February 21, 2014, that the death occurred in California. Seven additional illnesses were reported in Maryland. All of the Maryland victims reported eating soft or semi-soft Hispanic-style cheese that they purchased at different locations of the same grocery store chain. Listeria was later detected in a sample of Caujada en Terron, or fresh cheese curd, purchased at that chain. The CDC says three of the victims are newborns. Two of those ill are mothers of two of the ill newborns. The agency says the cheese was probably produced by Roos Foods of Kenton, Delaware.
  • As of May 16, 2014, 11 cases of E. coli O157:H7 in 4 states (Massachusetts, Michigan, Missouri, and Ohio) from tainted ground beef from Wolverine Packing Company of Detroit, Michigan.

So how many food processing plants permit "flu" infected workers to work despite worker illness due to productivity goals and/or lack of paid sick leave for workers? Yessir, low paid, uninsured workers that have to go to the hospital for treatment goes back to work, coughing mucus into the air that settles on somebody's dinner in a couple of days.

"Nurse, I think I have the flu."
"Have you recently travelled out of the country, have you recently travelled to West Africa?"
"No."
"Fill out this paper work and we'll call for you in a few hours."

New outbreak in a city hundreds of miles away.
 
So a second nurse that had been treating Duncan now has Ebola. Several SHOCKING things that I've heard that are hard to believe.
1) That anyone who had been caring for Duncan in Dallas was allowed out of quarantine to travel - but this woman went to Cleveland.
2) She started showing a fever and didn't decide ON HER OWN not to go anywhere, but instead called the CDC to ask permission to fly back to Dallas. Really? You've had recent exposure to Ebola from a patient that died, a co-worker caught it, and now with a fever you're not sure if you should fly or not.
3) The CDC said YES!!! They told her it was okay to fly to Dallas. With a fever. After having been treating someone with Ebola recently.
4) 132 other people were on the plane, who knows how many others in the airport she could have contacted, and none of them were given the option of not traveling with someone who recently treated an Ebola patient that currently has a fever.

The President called a cabinet meeting and said, "We're going to make sure that something like this is not repeated, and that we are monitoring, supervising, overseeing in a much more aggressive way exactly what's taking place in Dallas ... and making sure that the lessons learned are then transmitted to hospitals all across the country,"

These lessons should have already been learned, and this nurse should never have been allowed out of quarantine - but now she's put hundreds more at risk. She's as bad as Duncan.

Somebody tell me again how safe we are because passengers entering the country are being asked if they've been exposed or if they have a fever prior to flying in.
 
RandyT0001 said:
There are conspiracy theorists that would use this as "evidence" that the entry of ebola into the US is faked and there is a government plan to declare martial law, take away our rights, set up a dictatorship, and let the UN invade.
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Exactly. I used to be an active Member of what would be called the "Survivalist Community", but it was so full of folks that had severe Psychological Issues that I decided to distance myself.
I can only immagine the way they are all eating this garbage up to fuel their irrational Fears and Hyper-Paranoid Fantasies.:puke:
 
RandyT0001 said:
There are conspiracy theorists that would use this as "evidence" that the entry of ebola into the US is faked and there is a government plan to declare martial law, take away our rights, set up a dictatorship, and let the UN invade.
Click to expand...

Just wait until an air evac flight is painted black.....then the nuts will surface! I'm more concerned with what the paranoia will do economically. Need to attack the outbreak in Africa. Contain it there and it will dissipate.


Launching rockets (or missiles in my case) is so easy a chimp could do it. Read a step, do a step, eat a banana.

Sent from my iPad Air using Rocketry Forum.
 
I am concerned that the genie is out of the bottle... There is no such thing as containment in today's modern travel world.... complete with watchdog organizations that cry "freedom of the individual" anytime a government agency tries to take control. "You're taking away our freedom to assemble...to carry weapons...to free speach.... to spout mis-information and DIS-information against the oppressive government"...

(I knew we were headed for trouble when the allowed nuts to post doctored video on you-tube and claim the moon landings were faked....and that 911 was 'an inside job'...)
 
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Mushtang said:
So a second nurse that had been treating Duncan now has Ebola. Several SHOCKING things that I've heard that are hard to believe.
1) That anyone who had been caring for Duncan in Dallas was allowed out of quarantine to travel - but this woman went to Cleveland.
2) She started showing a fever and didn't decide ON HER OWN not to go anywhere, but instead called the CDC to ask permission to fly back to Dallas. Really? You've had recent exposure to Ebola from a patient that died, a co-worker caught it, and now with a fever you're not sure if you should fly or not.
3) The CDC said YES!!! They told her it was okay to fly to Dallas. With a fever. After having been treating someone with Ebola recently.
4) 132 other people were on the plane, who knows how many others in the airport she could have contacted, and none of them were given the option of not traveling with someone who recently treated an Ebola patient that currently has a fever.

The President called a cabinet meeting and said, "We're going to make sure that something like this is not repeated, and that we are monitoring, supervising, overseeing in a much more aggressive way exactly what's taking place in Dallas ... and making sure that the lessons learned are then transmitted to hospitals all across the country,"

These lessons should have already been learned, and this nurse should never have been allowed out of quarantine - but now she's put hundreds more at risk. She's as bad as Duncan.

Somebody tell me again how safe we are because passengers entering the country are being asked if they've been exposed or if they have a fever prior to flying in.
Click to expand...

Yes, and no.

Since I live thirty miles from where this young lady's family lives, this is very much in the news. Here is where your story drifts from the reported news:

1) apparently there was not, and has never been, a "quarantine" for people who have been potentially exposed. Hospital staff and others were asked to "self-report" and to take their temperature (as this is thought to be an early indicator) twice per day.
2) Since there was no travel restriction and she had plans to come here (I imagine so, since she is planning her wedding) she came and, for the most part, stayed in her family home.
3) When her temperature became elevated above normal (I think the number reported was 99 deg F) she called the CDC and asked what she should do. The CDC "standard" definition for a fever is anything over 100 deg F. Since she was not, by definition, running a fever, they gave her permission to fly believing that she was not communicable.
4) The day AFTER she arrived in Texas her fever was over the limit, she was tested for Ebola, and proved positive.
5) The total number of people in "voluntary quarantine" in Ohio is something like seventeen.
6) If the CDC is wrong, then she exposed a LOT of people. There are nurses from one or two hospitals who were on that flight as well as a couple school teachers, all of whom have been given three weeks paid leave and are expected to stay at home. Two schools were closed today, a whole fleet of school buses and a couple buildings are being sanitized, just in case.

I don't think that this woman did anything wrong. She operated within the guidelines that were given to her. I don't blame her any more than any soldier who is operating withing the official "rules of engagement." If errors were made, it lies with those who are defining the risks for us and not with the doctors and nurses who are our front line combatants.

As for the "clipboard guy" if you read the article, what it says is that the patient was in a full hazmat suit, so unless he was present when she put the suit on, or took it off (and he wasn't) he was both correct and safe. It just looked odd, because everyone else was suited up. Or at least that's the story in the media.
 
Peartree said:
Yes, and no.

Since I live thirty miles from where this young lady's family lives, this is very much in the news. Here is where your story drifts from the reported news:

1) apparently there was not, and has never been, a "quarantine" for people who have been potentially exposed. Hospital staff and others were asked to "self-report" and to take their temperature (as this is thought to be an early indicator) twice per day.
2) Since there was no travel restriction and she had plans to come here (I imagine so, since she is planning her wedding) she came and, for the most part, stayed in her family home.
3) When her temperature became elevated above normal (I think the number reported was 99 deg F) she called the CDC and asked what she should do. The CDC "standard" definition for a fever is anything over 100 deg F. Since she was not, by definition, running a fever, they gave her permission to fly believing that she was not communicable.
4) The day AFTER she arrived in Texas her fever was over the limit, she was tested for Ebola, and proved positive.
5) The total number of people in "voluntary quarantine" in Ohio is something like seventeen.
6) If the CDC is wrong, then she exposed a LOT of people. There are nurses from one or two hospitals who were on that flight as well as a couple school teachers, all of whom have been given three weeks paid leave and are expected to stay at home. Two schools were closed today, a whole fleet of school buses and a couple buildings are being sanitized, just in case.

I don't think that this woman did anything wrong. She operated within the guidelines that were given to her. I don't blame her any more than any soldier who is operating withing the official "rules of engagement." If errors were made, it lies with those who are defining the risks for us and not with the doctors and nurses who are our front line combatants.

As for the "clipboard guy" if you read the article, what it says is that the patient was in a full hazmat suit, so unless he was present when she put the suit on, or took it off (and he wasn't) he was both correct and safe. It just looked odd, because everyone else was suited up. Or at least that's the story in the media.
Click to expand...

1) If this is true then the hospital is even less competent than I thought. They knew several people had been caring for him while he was feverish but before they realized he had Ebola. There should have been a quarantine of all those people.
2) Maybe it's just easier for us to see in hind sight, but her going anywhere, especially home to her family, after being potentially exposed is just careless.
3) The CDC gave her permission to fly, later said that she should have never been allowed to fly, and admitted their mistake. Mistakes like this are what scare me the most and what makes me think there's a definite possibility this will become an outbreak in the USA. I hope I'm wrong about that.
4) That's the point where everyone realized all the bad decisions that had been made in the previous days.
5) The number in mandatory quarantine should be much, much, much higher.
6) I'd really love to find out I'm wrong about the way this will turn out, and how much the people in charge are really doing about keeping this country safe.
 
RandyT0001 said:
There are conspiracy theorists that would use this as "evidence" that the entry of ebola into the US is faked and there is a government plan to declare martial law, take away our rights, set up a dictatorship, and let the UN invade.
Click to expand...


As far as Ebola being allowed entry into the U.S. as well as Government operations deliberately perpetrating its spread as an excuse to declare Martial Law etc. etc.

Never ascribe to malice what can easily be explained by incompetence, arrogance and ignorance.
 
I'm the one who should really worry...Presbyterian hospital is less than 15 minutes from where I live.
 
Now a doctor in New York has Ebola.

This guy was over in West Africa helping Ebola patients and doing what he could to save people's lives. That's an amazing thing to do, and he get my upmost respect for that action.

He comes home to New York and what does this genius do next? Does he stay in his apartment for a couple of weeks just to be sure, or does he ride the subway, go on a 3 mile jog, hang out in the park, take a taxi, go bowling, and spend a LOT of time around a LOT of people?

Of course "they" are saying that there is *no* risk to anyone in the bowling alley where he was the night before he woke up with a 103 degree fever and diarrhea. The bowling alley is closed down and his apartment is cordoned off. But there's *no* risk.

When will healthcare workers that treat infected patients stop hanging out with hundreds of people immediately following their exposure?
 
What an idiot!

It is clear that despite what the CDC and general medical community says, Ebola spreads far easier and lasts longer outside the body than they say/think.

I tell you, after relying on the mainstream medical community to treat my joint/body pain for the last decade and only seeing worsening conditions, I gave up. I did my own research and developed a course of self-treatment and have seen a complete turnaround in the last 6 weeks. Diagnosis turned out to be simple and medication is readily available outside of the money-mongering pharmaceutical machine. I'm convinced that the vast majority of medical providers are clueless imbeciles that are simply going through the 9-to-5 motions during the day and have little/no diagnostic skills.
 
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TopRamen said:
Agreed, and I hope he dies for it.
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Umm, no. I don't wish that on anyone.

This is not evil, or stupid. This is typical behavior of the arrogant in medicine, government, and many other fields. This is the "I know what I am doing better than you do crowd."

I could give an example from government, but that would be construed as being political.
 
TopRamen said:
Agreed, and I hope he dies for it.
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I hope that doesn't happen, the man was helping out trying to eliminate the source of the problem. What I can't believe is the way the CDC is handling these people when they return to the U.S. They should be isolated period for the no. of days (21 or now they are saying longer) that it takes to be clear of ebola. Anyone going there will have to accept this isolation, period. Something is wrong somewhere, can't believe how the U.S. is taking this disease in vain like it is. The cost socially and economically is mounting.
 
TopRamen said:
Agreed, and I hope he dies for it.
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I don't think he should die just because he walked around NYC, but if anyone catches Ebola from him because of it he should probably be prosecuted. And if several people die because of an exposure by him then I think maybe manslaughter would apply.
 
I'll bet that Bowling Alley is Lawyered up, and good for them, as they likely will lose quite a bit if not all of their Business.
Folks will inevitably start calling that Bowling Alley the Ebowling Alley. E-Bowl-A.:lol:
 
Perhaps it is time to modernize and resurrect Ellis Island before the flawed CDC protocols expose even more American citizens to potential pandemic and the Doctors Without Common Sense morph into the Diseases Without Borders. I know, I know.... I'm just an insensitive old fart. :facepalm:
 
Ok, my 2 cents:

I believe "we" (you, me, the CDC) don't know everthing about Ebola BUT... has anyone in the U.S. contracted Ebola from "exposure" other than direct contact with a sick (from Ebola) person yet ?
 
samb said:
Ok, my 2 cents:

I believe "we" (you, me, the CDC) don't know everthing about Ebola BUT... has anyone in the U.S. contracted Ebola from "exposure" other than direct contact with a sick (from Ebola) person yet ?
Click to expand...

In a word, no.
 
What if another "Thomas Duncan" slips past the authorities having jurisdiction, enters the United States, develops a high fever but keeps his/her acts of deception secret, fearing deportation? What then?
 
tmacklin said:
What if another "Thomas Duncan" slips past the authorities having jurisdiction, enters the United States, develops a high fever but keeps his/her acts of deception secret, fearing deportation? What then?
Click to expand...

Then you can say "I told you so". FWIW I believe Thomas Duncan was criminally negligent. Otherwise IDK, I'll keep washing my hands and flying rockets.
 
tmacklin said:
What if another "Thomas Duncan" slips past the authorities having jurisdiction, enters the United States, develops a high fever but keeps his/her acts of deception secret, fearing deportation? What then?
Click to expand...

Then there is an approximately 70-90% percent chance they will die (painfully), and almost certainly some folks close to them will get sick. Assuming they either have no fear of deportation, or having just witnessed their loved one die of Ebola they will fear it more than deportation and seek medical care. This will give them a good chance of survival assuming they are treated within the first few days. Probably a few people will get sick from them, but by that point even a bungling system will be on to them and move to quarantine. Worse case a few cases trickle through a few more cycles. This would be tragic, but not the downfall of Western Society.

Beyond what I know about infectious disease there are four pieces of practical data make me not worry about Ebola in the US:
1) If the Nigerian health system can get their imported case under control in a city as dense and populous as Lagos I have faith that we can keep a lid on it.
2) The current percentage of Americans infected with Ebola while on US soil is 0.00000063%*.
3) The current percentage of Americans infected with Ebola while on US soil who are not directly caring for a hospitalized Ebola patient is 0.0000000000000000000000%
4) If the people in the apartment with Thomas Duncan for those four symptomatic days didn't get Ebola, I'm not worried about getting it in passing. Because I assure you, I ain't hanging out with an Ebola patient in a tiny apartment for four days.

Simply put, Ebola does not worry me in the developed world. I am however quite worried about the well being of a community I am involved with in Sierra Leone. I pray for their continued health daily, and will remain eternally grateful to those medical personnel that go to West Africa...even if they exercised poor judgment upon returning. I do think that some kind of soft quarantine would be advisable for returning medical workers, I mean common sense does appear to have taken a walk (and gone bowling, there is a bad bowling shoe joke in there somewhere) with the New York doctor. I mean, hang out in your apartment, watch some football, order some takeout. You live in New York, you can get ANYTHING delivered.

*The percentage of Americans who have gotten infected with Ebola on US soil, i.e. 2 out of 316.1 Million. You literally have a greater chance of dying from Naegleria fowleri(brain eating amoeba, avg 3 deaths/yr) in the US each year than contracting Ebola. There will probably be a few more transmissions within the US before the outbreak is controlled, but it won't be thousands, unlikely to be hundreds, maybe not even tens, but it will be more the longer the outbreak festers in Africa. The only way to ensure no cases is to eradicate the disease at it's source. For now, trained medical staff on the ground in West Africa is the best defense. A few imported cases of Ebola is going to be the price of that for those countries that send aide.
 
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