*RANT* Sparkies!

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thobin

thobin

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***WARNING RANT AGAINST SPARKY HATERS***

IF you have thin skin or hate sparkies read no further it will just piss you off, you have been warned!







Ok California might be suffering from a drought but in other parts of the country we are not! In fact where I live we have had a very wet summer to the point the last time I had to water my lawn was the middle of July.

Now why the hate and irrational self imposed ban on sparkies? I have been doing this for 15 years and I have yet to see ANY motor start ANY fire. Now i'm sure it has happened due to a CATO but under normal flight use!?

Now you might say why risk it! Well WAAAA go hide under your bed and stay indoors where it's safe. Every time you get in your car you run the risk of dying. There is an element of risk with this hobby its what makes it fun! If they started fires all this time I could see a ban, I'm sorry its just not the case!

I'm tired of the, "I heard that one did" or that you saw one once because I don't believe it! Unless it was your motor and you have pictures and proof that it was a sparky launch with three other witnesses and that it indeed started a fire, I don't want to hear it! It's BS!

We got pounded with 3 days of rain this week and at the next launch the rule @$% will proclaim again no sparkies!! I know the BLM has not said we cant use them, they dont know the first thing about what we are doing. When they do show up most of them have a ball watching and wouldn't know one if they saw one.

What the hell am I supozta do with all my sparky motors!


TA
 
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thobin said:
Unless it was your motor and you have pictures and proof that it was a sparky launch with three other witnesses and that it indeed started a fire, I don't want to hear it! It's BS!


TA
Click to expand...

here my B.S. last spring, not on a dry grass as you see, sparky starts fire, happen all the time end of discussion.
 
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Please send us all your green Canadian grass, we will dry it out for you, take our cut, and then send it back......
(WTH-is that made of paper mache`?
 
Area66 said:
here my B.S. last spring, not on a dry grass as you see, sparky starts fire, happen all the time end of discussion.

Especially when you don't follow the safety code!!! NAR required a minimum of 50' cleared area for an H motor. You picture clearly shows that rule wasn't followed, for any motor, let alone a sparkie.. Sarkies are a great alternative for those of us who are having fun and aren't afraid to try something different.
Click to expand...
 
Area66 said:
here my B.S. last spring, not on a dry grass as you see, sparky starts fire, happen all the time end of discussion.


fire1_zps89af7486.jpg


fire2_zps997539fb.jpg
Click to expand...

Well now was it your motor? And how do we know that's not a CATO shot of the same or a later flight? Sorry i'm having a hard time believing something that green is burning, me thinks there is a catoed motor in there somewhere. I used to burn fence line as young pup on the farm, green stuff doesn't burn and I had a flame thrower trying to start fires.

And I happens all the time? And if that's the case why are you all launching something that starts fires all the time?

If this is a fire started by a sparky, (I will take your word for it) whats the difference between a sparky or the chance of a CATO motor burning the place down? Now I have started a fire with one of my CATO motors.

Seen plenty of CATOS lots of flaming hot fuel all over the place, not much in the way of fires. We seem OK with that risk but any one says sparky and we run home to Mama.


Beautiful sparky shot by the way. :)

The bush that this rocket landed on was on fire a bit, a few kicks of dirt put it out.


TA

2013-05-25 11.59.20.jpg
 
In California we've had an awful drought, but we've never had issues with sparkies where I've launched. For one thing...
dsc_4295s.jpg


Secondly:
attachment.php


People jest about who can light the lakebed on fire.
 
Tin Man said:
Area66 said:
here my B.S. last spring, not on a dry grass as you see, sparky starts fire, happen all the time end of discussion.

Especially when you don't follow the safety code!!! NAR required a minimum of 50' cleared area for an H motor. You picture clearly shows that rule wasn't followed, for any motor, let alone a sparkie.. Sarkies are a great alternative for those of us who are having fun and aren't afraid to try something different.
Click to expand...

I don't see why the CAR has to fallow NAR rules, it's Transport Canada Rules we fallow in Canada; green grass is not dead grass

"7.3. The launcher shall be located in an area, with a radius of at least 5m, that is cleared of all loose objects and flammable materials, such as dead grass."


Tin Man said:
Sarkies are a great alternative for those of us who are having fun and aren't afraid to try something different.
Click to expand...

Are you RSO ? Are you the one who is responsible if someone start a fire ? Are you the one who will deal with the farmers if such thing happen, if not ..let the persons responsible decide with what you can have fun or not.
Click to expand...
 
Last edited:
thobin said:
Well now was it your motor? And how do we know that's not a CATO shot of the same or a later flight? Sorry i'm having a hard time believing something that green is burning, me thinks there is a catoed motor in there somewhere. I used to burn fence line as young pup on the farm, green stuff doesn't burn and I had a flame thrower trying to start fires.

If this is a fire started by a sparky, (I will take your word for it) whats the difference between a sparky or the chance of a CATO motor burning the place down? Now I have started a fire with one of my CATO motors.


TA
Click to expand...

Burning metal has a tendency to start a lot of things on fire... Also you can tell it's the same flight from the rod's shadows.

Like it or not, they're a large fire hazard for no reason but effect. I like 'em. we launch 'em. But unless everyone is willing to deal with the risks, you can't get mad at them for not wanting to do it. Offer to show up early and clear a pad 'extra carefully' and man an extinguisher during the flights, see what they say.
 
thobin said:
What the hell am I supozta do with all my sparky motors!
Click to expand...

Fly 'em on a dry lake bed.................like say, ummmmmmm.....Jean Dry Lake at Tripoli Las Vegas's Oktoberfest in about three weeks?

Maybe you could carpool with Alex (Aksrockets)?

s6
 
to the OP, if you not happy with your club rules, why you don't start your own club , sign agreements with farmers and take the risk on your own shoulders, that's what I did last year. My rants is not about sparky, it's about peoples without responsibilities ranting.
 
stealth6 said:
Fly 'em on a dry lake bed.................like say, ummmmmmm.....Jean Dry Lake at Tripoli Las Vegas's Oktoberfest in about three weeks?

Maybe you could carpool with Alex (Aksrockets)?

s6
Click to expand...


I would love to, alas I have use my vacation for this year with the family in St Gorge, not to far away. I would be hard press to take a few more days off just to launch rockets (Nine days of vacation in July) it would be a tough sell. Not a big fan or surface of the sun temperatures anyway. :)


TA
 
Area66 said:
to the OP, if you not happy with your club rules, why you don't start your own club , sign agreements with farmers and take the risk on your own shoulders, that's what I did last year. My rants is not about sparky, it's about peoples without responsibilities ranting.
Click to expand...


I didn't think I was implying that I was defecting any responsibility or common sense!? I just don't see the difference in risk between the potential CATO and the potential fire risk of a sparky. Instead of quitting the club I choose to create discussion and educate, or at least make the rule makers explain themselves. I don't accept their premise or reasoning, every bit of rocketry is a fire hazard.

How long did we have to put up with the ATF rules before we made them explain it or prove it?

How many CATOs start a fire? I bet its much higher than a sparkies do and I would hazard a guess that tons more sparkies fly than CATOs happen.


TA
 
Area66 said:
to the OP, if you not happy with your club rules, why you don't start your own club , sign agreements with farmers and take the risk on your own shoulders, that's what I did last year. My rants is not about sparky, it's about peoples without responsibilities ranting.
Click to expand...

Why does it always have to be so cut and dry, take it or leave it? Don't be a jerk, suggest something useful.... Like advice on how to get them to see it's safe by making it safe. Not just calling him irresponsible without ever meeting him.
 
My problem with Sparkies is being the person to launch off the same launch rod/rail right after a Sparky has been launched. Why don't you go out and wipe the rod/rail off after using it because I'm tired of getting my hands and clothes dirtied up.
 
I've seen lots of non sparkeys light fires, in fact Al holds the CATO record with 2 fires on the same HP white motor (chuff- fire, put it out, new ignitor, new fire.

The reality is that we should clear the recommended distance for ALL motors, not just sparkeys. They just show us what we're doing wrong for ALL motors. Do it right, no fire regaurdless of what you shove in the blunt end.
 
I like to watch Sparkies
I've flown a few as well
And while I can't satisfy the OPS demand of pictures, 3 witnesses, etc., I can say I have personally seen Sparkies set fires multiple times (and gone out to help stamp out the fire)

This last weekend, at a launch there was a CATO and yes, it set the field on fire

There was another launch that also had a CATO but it did NOT start a fire.

So sometimes a CATO will start a fire, sometimes not
Sometimes a Sparkie will start a fire, sometimes not

I don't have the data to determine the number of flights that occur compared to the number of CATOs, and then how many of those CATOs actually start a fire.
And then comparing it to the number of Sparkie flights that start a fire.
So perhaps the "bet" is nothing more than a guess?

Meanwhile, a CATO is not planned. I've never seen the owner of a rocket happy that they had a CATO
A Sparkie is planned. And I have gone to launches where due to dry weather they have been banned for safety reasons. At times being over-protective? Perhaps, but then again you could lose access to the field if the owner becomes upset about the fire. And since this is a conscious decision vs a chance event it could skew the data.

Yes, every flight has hot stuff coming out that could start a fire. Hence we use blast deflectors. And during extreme droughts and burn bans there are places that can't fly at all.
Again, a CATO is not a planned event but the sparkie is. If conditions don't seem favorable then sparkies should not be used. If a club has had sufficient incidences with sparkies (and perhaps warnings from the land owner) then perhaps a global ban is required

Just my $.02 worth
 
hball55 said:
My problem with Sparkies is being the person to launch off the same launch rod/rail right after a Sparky has been launched. Why don't you go out and wipe the rod/rail off after using it because I'm tired of getting my hands and clothes dirtied up.
Click to expand...

And they damage the rail too, I think I'm gone charge extra for sparky for replace the rails time to time

Don't mistake me, I like sparky but if the field is dry they will be grounded, have not happen until now.
 
thobin said:
I just don't see the difference in risk between the potential CATO and the potential fire risk of a sparky...


TA
Click to expand...

The difference is that CATO's are an inherent risk with launching all rockets. The only way to eliminate that risk is to cancel the launch or more specifically not fly that rocket at all.
The fire risk of a sparky motor is only inherent when launching sparky powered rockets. You can eliminate that component of overall risk by using a different type of motor.

So it is apparent that there is always going to be some element of risk when launching rockets, whether its motor malfunction, flight path, recovery failure etc... It is up to the club/landowner/local authorities (if applicable) to determine what level of risk they are willing to accept before any given launch. Regulating sparkies is one of many ways to reduce the overall risk of the launching activities. This of course is assuming you buy into the idea that properly functioning sparkies are more prone to starting fires than properly functioning "other" motors. I've seen sparkies start fires at our local sod farm, which were minor and extinguished promptly by range personnel.

I've seen all three cases happen. The difference in risk between CATO's and sparkies are the difference between #2 and #3.
1. - Clubs will allow for any type of motor to be flown. There is no significant fire hazard, regardless of which motor is used.
2. - Clubs have banned sparkies but other flights are allowed to continue. Launching sparkies presents a significant fire hazard, however other motors do not.
3. - Clubs have canceled launches completely due to fire risk. Launching any type of rocket presents a significant fire hazard.

The reason so many clubs are so conservative with sparky motors and conducting launches in drought conditions is because if someone was to start a forest/grassland/wild fire with a rocket, to the point where local/state/federal resources had to get involved with the firefighting efforts, it could put the entire hobby at risk.
 
Any rocket motor can start a fire.
HP even easier, with a exhaust temperatures reaching 4500 F

Oversized and improperly placed igniters can do it also.

JD
 
Lol, do you straddle the rail/rod when you put your rocket on??? You also can't just narrow it down to the person who flew a sparkie on the pad before you unless you know that pad was completely cleaned off before you used it.....fly, don't cry!

hball55 said:
My problem with Sparkies is being the person to launch off the same launch rod/rail right after a Sparky has been launched. Why don't you go out and wipe the rod/rail off after using it because I'm tired of getting my hands and clothes dirtied up.
Click to expand...
 
I am not a hater, but we have to watch them on our field. It is a sod farm and they make their money of the grass. We has a launch in the spring where all 3 sparky motors cause fires. It was early in the season so no big deal, but we had to tighten up our rules. We now spray down the field before sparky motors.

If it is really dry, I have been tempted to bring a weed eater to cut back the ditches around the flight line. Well, I guess I could let the first sparky flier do the honors.
 
There shouldn't be an all out ban on sparkies, there are times to fly them then there are times not to. If done right they should be as safe as non sparkies. Speaking of sparkies and catos, has anyone seen a sparky cato?
 
Because you did not see it does not mean it did not happen. I have seen it several times. Are you going to say I am a liar because my experience is different than yours?

I have seen sparkies cause fires. I help stamp out those fires on a few occasions. That is the truth.

I am not a sparky fan. I admit it, and I am not afraid to say it. You could offer me a free one and I would turn you down. Period and end of story.



Mark Koelsch
Sent from my iPhone using Rocketry Forum
 
Mightyrocketman said:
There shouldn't be an all out ban on sparkies, there are times to fly them then there are times not to. If done right they should be as safe as non sparkies. Speaking of sparkies and catos, has anyone seen a sparky cato?
Click to expand...
[video=youtube;nMr3yntQbG8]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nMr3yntQbG8&list=UUZHQd8FdnPL3VB6hVSZ6MFw[/video]

Mother of Sparky catos....


The majority of the year UROC can fly sparkies. October will definitely be a go if it rained there as much as it did here these past 2 days. I don't blame them for putting that rule up at the sept. launch, but I'm definitely cheering for you for sneaking that little G sparky load in there.

Alex
 
Mightyrocketman said:
There shouldn't be an all out ban on sparkies, there are times to fly them then there are times not to. If done right they should be as safe as non sparkies. Speaking of sparkies and catos, has anyone seen a sparky cato?
Click to expand...

I maintain if its to dry to fly a sparky then its to dry to fly.


markkoelsch said:
Because you did not see it does not mean it did not happen. I have seen it several times. Are you going to say I am a liar because my experience is different than yours?

I have seen sparkies cause fires. I help stamp out those fires on a few occasions. That is the truth.

I am not a sparky fan. I admit it, and I am not afraid to say it. You could offer me a free one and I would turn you down. Period and end of story.

Mark Koelsch
Sent from my iPhone using Rocketry Forum
Click to expand...


I reject that it is as common as people claim. I would like some proof from the "I saw a sparky cause a fire!" crowd instead of all the hear say and exaggeration of this apparent epidemic of sparky fires. If it is as bad as people claim then they should be banned.

That's fine if you don't like them its not what this is about, not all motors float my boat, but your would your dislike of them put your account of how many fires you have had to stomp in question?


TA
 

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