Laptop for Rockets - A Different Kind of Build Thread

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RocketPro

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Time to update the old Rocket PC...I thought that others may benefit from whatever I run into as I bring it up and load Rocketry tools and software.

First step...the laptop. I set a $500 max price and wanted something fairly small for field use. I picked the HP Pavillion x360 13.3". It has a display that goes into tablet mode which might prove useful for the field. I'm sticking with the pre-loaded Windows 8.1 to see how well it works. I'm primarily a Mac user so I'm intrigued by what the current State of the Art Windows system will be like. Picked this one up at Best Buy for $499, decent display and touch screen and with the right high contrast settings it'll do for range use.

Naturally, YMMV and everyone has their preferences.

I'll skip all the setup items and post again when I get to loading rocket-specific tools.
 
Today...RockSim loaded.

I have been running RockSim v9 for almost all of my simulation needs on my Macintosh. Today I contacted Apogee and they gave me the information to setup my license on my Windows machine. It was a breeze, just download the software from the website, copied over the license files from the Mac, typed in my license key, and voila! Took about 30 minutes, including the download. They also told me that I could have it on both my Mac and Windows machines at the same time. Very convenient.

I ran a quick test simulation and everything seems to be fine. RockSim works just fine under Win 8.1 with the touchscreen. I'm looking forward to running some checkout simulations.

Next...download and install RasAero and OpenRocket.
 
RasAero...check. As easy as pie to download and install. Came up and ran just fine in desktop mode. Will need to run a serious simulation to make sure everything is in place, may have to install engine files, etc...

Next, based on some other threads, I installed Java from the official Java site (java.com). This was in preparation of the OpenRocket install.

Downloaded the OpenRocket ".jar" file and it opened first thing. Note that OpenRocket won't run on the Start Screen, or whatever they call it. But it ran fine in desktop mode, even with the touch interface.

Looking forward to putting these tools through some paces, I've only used RockSim regularly, but there are many threads that indicate using all the tools in concert provides a richer design data set, especially for high performance rockets.

Next up, support tools for my tracking and altimeter electronics.


Dare Mighty Things...
 
This will be interesting to follow. My go-to-the-field computer right now is an Acer netbook with an AMD processor - Win 7 Home Premium 64-bit. Though I prefer to use a Mac (and am on my MacBook Pro right now). I was also pleased to find I could use RockSim on both machines with no issue. Nice of them to allow that, actually. Data files for RockSim and also files for OpenRocket, PerfectFlite and Altus Metrum altimeters seem to move between the platforms quite freely, which I also appreciate.
 
Only issue you might have is if you have several programmable deployment electronics devices, might have some interface problems with 8.1. If you setup all your devices at home and don't use the laptop in the field for that purpose, you won't have a problem. You'll of course have the luxury of working out all the bugs before going into the field.

I'm an oddball as I have Linux on a old dual core laptop that runs Rocksim 9, Burnsim and just about every altimeter programming software except for the MARSA54 using WINE and for backup Oracle's VirtualBox with an XP guest for other programming software. Was a real PITA to setup I don't recommend.
The only plus for the linux box was the Xastir tracking software that runs native for APRS tracking and for use with an EggFinder GPS tracker if I want to
record and save a flight.

One suggestion: Try to have all your "stuff" ready to go before you go to a launch. You want to spend your time flying and not dinking around on a laptop trying to get a connection to a device to work. Believe me, what may work fine at home may get very quirky in the field. Going to a major launch for several days? By all means the laptop is the "tool" for after hours use. Kurt
 
Only issue you might have is if you have several programmable deployment electronics devices, might have some interface problems with 8.1. .........t

if it work on Windows 7 it work also on Windows 8.1
 
I saw this thread the other night and have been wanting to get a cheap Toughbook for launches and found this on Ebay:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/311093314110?_trksid=p2060778.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT

I ordered on and will make a VM of XP before installing Windows 7 on it.

These are they same laptops that you will find in most police cars and are the only thing we found that will hold up to ambulance drivers. The screens are also easy to read in sunlight. I'll up the memory to 4GB and it should run fine for a range laptop. I'll have to see about getting the second battery for it.

It says these were for the military in the middle east, but not sent. I'm guessing this was originally a $10,000 laptop! :p
 
I went pretty much the same route, but bought a CF-F8 tough book for $200 off ebay... it is smaller and less bulky and weighs only 3 lbs, but is rated for a 3 foot drop. The handle is pretty useful too. Most of the Toughbooks cost about $2k or so new. Here is the F9 which is pretty much the same as the F8 I have, except the F9 is the current model and has a faster processor and an LED screen. https://www.panasonic.com/business/toughbook/laptop-computers.asp

I saw this thread the other night and have been wanting to get a cheap Toughbook for launches and found this on Ebay:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/311093314110?_trksid=p2060778.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT

I ordered on and will make a VM of XP before installing Windows 7 on it.

These are they same laptops that you will find in most police cars and are the only thing we found that will hold up to ambulance drivers. The screens are also easy to read in sunlight. I'll up the memory to 4GB and it should run fine for a range laptop. I'll have to see about getting the second battery for it.

It says these were for the military in the middle east, but not sent. I'm guessing this was originally a $10,000 laptop! :p
 
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I'm an oddball as I have Linux on a old dual core laptop that runs Rocksim 9, Burnsim and just about every altimeter programming software except for the MARSA54 using WINE and for backup Oracle's VirtualBox with an XP guest for other programming software. Was a real PITA to setup I don't recommend.
The only plus for the linux box was the Xastir tracking software that runs native for APRS tracking and for use with an EggFinder GPS tracker if I want to
record and save a flight.

Possible dumb question incoming, but why not do the reverse and run XP/7 native then VirtualBox a Linux Guest. Seems easier than messing with WINE for hours on end with the possibility of finding out your software won't work at all. Plus I hear that using Ubuntu's Unity DM in seamless mode is pretty sweet on a Win Host.
 
So...lots of good inputs flowing through the thread.

Spent Yesterday and today "cleaning" lots of stuff off of the laptop. I understand why HP loads up a bunch of stuff for the "digital life" but I don't like the clutter for a machine with a very specific purpose. One interesting "feature" of Windows 8.1 was its habit of restoring Apps that I deleted from the Microsoft Store. Seems that it's constantly trying to download Apps that it thinks I might like. Of course, just a couple of clicks in the settings and I turned that off, but it was a surprise to see "Farmville" keep returning to my machine!

Finally for today...an observation about the Windows 8.1 User Interface. I think that it's primary deficiency is that it's more than one interface paradigm all mixed around each other. There are elements of the XPRS-era interface and the more modern App-style interface mixed in together. This can easily cause confusion even in experienced users. Not that it's horrible, but I can certainly understand some folks dislike for it and I certainly appreciate the consistency of the Apple-verse. Again TEHO.

Next up...quality time with altimeters and interface programs!


Dare Mighty Things...
 
Possible dumb question incoming, but why not do the reverse and run XP/7 native then VirtualBox a Linux Guest. Seems easier than messing with WINE for hours on end with the possibility of finding out your software won't work at all. Plus I hear that using Ubuntu's Unity DM in seamless mode is pretty sweet on a Win Host.

Not a dumb question. The answer is years ago there was no free VirtualBox or VMware. Paid for VMware once that ran Win95 like it was on a Pentium 100Mhz machine. That was not fun. Still had trouble connecting peripherals up then too. Rocksim 5.X will run on a stock WINE install with no tricks required even back then. WINE was the only game in town awhile back and actually, most of the altimeter software sans the MARSA 54 is pretty simple and will run on a stock WINE setup once the com ports are sorted out.

Here's a generic WINE setup:

https://www.rocketryforum.com/showthread.php?1007-RocSim-9-under-Linux&p=672177#post672177

Yeah, it's a pain but a lot of programs will run with this. Under a Slackware user account when I attach a USB device I have to manually
change permission of the port by doing a dmesg in a terminal, find the /dev/ttyUSB(X) assignment and then sudo chmod 777 /dev/ttyUSB0
the device is then visible and usable.

The native Windows environment is fine. Some com programs I've seen postings here about a particular program not working but most
of them do. I got tired of a dual boot environment so tried to get stuff to run over several years time with good success. Kurt
 
Win95 really ? Win95 don't run well in visualization. Vmware works very fine on my 6 cores ( 12T) Windows 8.1 and also in my 4 cores ( 8T ) Windows 7 workstations, you need too understand how it work; first thing, you never install a VM virtual drive on the same HD as the hosting OS.
 
So...bringing it back on topic, this thread is not really about VM-ware, unless specifically about interfaces with rocketry programs.

Spent the morning setting up the interface programs that I have. I'll cover the PerfectFlite DataCap, Beeline GPS Communicator, and the Featherweight Interface Program.

First up, the Perfectflite interface. It's always helpful to have the Device Manager from the Control Panel open when you're hooking up hardware. My Perfectflite hardware uses the older, DB-9 serial port interface cable. It works with my MAWD as well as my Stratologgers. I use an ioGear serial port adapter. Now what I'm about to describe may be different for other brands of adapters, but the general concepts are consistent. I thought that I'd let Windows 8.1 find and install the driver so I just plugged in the adapter (without plugging in the Perfectflite yet) and watched Windows do its thing. No joy, I let it spin for a while, but since my device is older, I cancelled it from searching and used the old fashioned method. I downloaded the 64-bit driver from the ioGear website and ran their installer. Then I plugged in my adapter and viola!, there it was as COM3. Now my machine has three USB ports so I tried each port in succession. Each port gave a different COM number - remember that I have the Device Manager open so I can see what's going on - which is not an idea situation. Some USB-serial drivers allow you to assign the COM port number so from the Device Manager, I opened my driver, selected the "Advanced" tab, and set it to COM10. Now when I plug that same device into any USB port, it consistently comes up as COM10. That's handy when starting the interface program. So after downloading and installing the Perfectflite DataCap program, I was easily able to select COM10 and read my units. So, far, so good.

Next up, the Beeline GPS, unit. Now I have two different versions of the Beeline USB adapter, so I chose the newest one and plugged it in. This time, I just got the identification info from the device manager to see that I had an FTDI chip on the adapter. A quick spin over to the FTDI website and a brief download later, I've got the driver files...hmmm...no installer. I could've opened the unrecognized item in the Device Manager and then installed a driver manually by browsing for the files just downloaded, but I noticed that on the FTDI driver download page, there was an executable version of the driver with installer so I went that route. After that driver ran, my device showed up as serial port COM4. Just as I Did for the ioGear item, I opened the driver and then selected the item to lock down the COM port to COM11. Boom! Suddenly my driver had an error and was unceremoniously dumped by Windows. I did some playing around but couldn't convince the driver to lock down on any number so I pulled out a different, older, USB interface from Big Red Bee, and It showed up just fine (it's still an FTDI chip). This one was able to lock down the COM port for some reason, so I'm going with the slightly older unit. I then downloaded and ran the Beeline Communicator program. It wouldn't let me use the pull-down menu to select a COM port, but I was able to type in "COM11" and things worked just fine. Two down...

Finally, I pulled out my Featherweight Ravens, and plugged them directly into the USB port on the computer (the converter chip is onboard). It also has an FTDI chip and since FTDI uses a universal driver set, it was recognized immediately and I was able to lock down the port to COM12 using the same method above. Soon I was able to reprogram my Ravens.

So, the conclusion is that serial ports are finicky, some "just work" and some need some extra effort to get them installed. In the end, all my electronics now hookup to the laptop and won't change in the field on me. The interface programs all seem to work well with only one minor interface issue.


Dare Mighty Things...
 
Good to know about Java for running OpenRocket . . . been wanting to try it out. I went a more expensive route and have a Surface Pro 3; though, I'm not sure if I want to take it out to dry lake bed ranges due to the fine dust.
 
Win95 really ? Win95 don't run well in visualization. Vmware works very fine on my 6 cores ( 12T) Windows 8.1 and also in my 4 cores ( 8T ) Windows 7 workstations, you need too understand how it work; first thing, you never install a VM virtual drive on the same HD as the hosting OS.

You missed "years ago". Virtualization was new and pretty rough around the edges. I use Vbox now and with a laptop, I have the host and and quest OS on the only drive in the machine and it runs nominally. I probably haven't tried VMware since 2000 or before. It may very well be a different product now.

As RocketPro is finding out, once the appropriate drivers are sorted out for connecting peripherals, it's generally smooth sailing no
matter what system one is using. Kurt
 
Good to know about Java for running OpenRocket . . . been wanting to try it out. I went a more expensive route and have a Surface Pro 3; though, I'm not sure if I want to take it out to dry lake bed ranges due to the fine dust.

Thus why I bought a toughbook. They are designed with harsh conditions in mind. I launch in corn and bean fields and it's amazing how much dust there is out there. It will be delivered on Tuesday and i will post some review about it.
 
I find that a MacBook Air is superb as a field machine. Mine runs Parallels VM with Linux, Win XP and Win 8.1 as VMs.

Robust. Small. Long battery life. Compatible with all the rocketry software. In some VM.

Ken
 
Thus why I bought a toughbook. They are designed with harsh conditions in mind. I launch in corn and bean fields and it's amazing how much dust there is out there. It will be delivered on Tuesday and i will post some review about it.

I got the Toughbook. Awesome deal for the price. I is a brand new laptop that has bee sitting around for a few years. Works great so far. I've reformatted the drive and installed Windows 7 on it. The only issue is getting the sound to work. I just haven't had much time to find the right driver for it yet. Lately it's been more important to get a large project ready for MWP in a few weeks. Not really a big deal since I don't really need to have sound for a range PC. I'll figure it out sometime since it would be nice to just carry one laptop with me to a launch. I'm also going to order some memory and take it up to 4 GB. Runs fine on 2GB, but will run better with 4.

All and all, I can't think of a better laptop to use at a launch. These were going to go to Afghanistan or Iraq, so if they were tough enough for our troops to use them, they should be fine with what I will put it through.

Toughbooks were the ONLY laptop we found that held up to ambulance drivers at work. Don't know what these guys do to them, but "ordinary" laptops would fail after a week or two. These last long enough that they get tech refreshed.
 
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