Dremel's New 3D Printer

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troj said:
Yep, and do some reading on the print quality and level of fiddling that the printrbot printers require.

Yes, you can get them. But the quality isn't there.

Remember, you're talking mass consumers, not a hobbyist who wants to fiddle with it.

-Kevin
Click to expand...

the reviews for the new, all metal ones are much better other than some firmware issues. as for the quality, it depends on what you expect out of it. all current filament based 3d printers produce more or less the same results regardless of brand or price. they all use the same stepper motors with the same resolution along with the same bearings and belts and the same software. the only difference is the build size and price.

and they all require fiddling with. any complex tool with lots of moving parts does.
 
troj said:
Yep, and do some reading on the print quality and level of fiddling that the printrbot printers require.

Yes, you can get them. But the quality isn't there.

Remember, you're talking mass consumers, not a hobbyist who wants to fiddle with it.

-Kevin
Click to expand...

The Printrbot Metal simple will produce excellent print quality. At least as good as anything under $3K. What you give up with it is only print volume as it's only 6"x6"x6" vs. some of the other popular Rep 2 clones. It use all metal parts that are robust and less prone to wear and misalignment over time. It's only $599. It doesn't require proprietary filament. It uses open source tools. It's a hobbyist printer to be sure. It's IMHO by far the best value out there and it's proven. Too many of the kickstarter projects are a gamble and not suitable for people without 3d printing experience.

That said, all 3d printers require time and effort to use. You need to learn how to set up and use them. How to maintain and calibrate them. You need to do this and WANT to do this to get the best quality prints. A printer that bills itself as a consumer friendly option is going to be nice for printing little figurines but will have trouble with high tolerance parts. I know this because I've used Makerbots 5th gen (NOT recommended) and Printrbots. The Makerware software is nice but gives you very little control. The Printrbot allows you to use various control and slicing software. Repetier Host with Slic3r or Cura, MatterControl or if you want a paid setup with support, Simplify3D. I worry that the Dremel printer will be a closed system and if it doesn't work well, or it has bugs you are stuck waiting for them to fix it. Since it's a FF maybe it will be open but let's see. Flexibility and "tweakability" is important here. The biggest problem is choosing a printer that has a flaw or shortcoming that cannot be overcome because the problem is out of your hands and in the hands of a company that can't or won't support what you need.

Think of a 3D printer as a CNC mill or lathe. You can get great, repeatable parts out of it but you need to know how to operate it. You can't just expect to hit "print" and get good results. Unlike a 2D printer there are things that don't print well. Objects and shapes with overhangs need support or need to be broken up to print. This requires some experience. It's totally worth it. A 3d printer is absolutely the most enabling tool I've ever purchased in rocketry but it's taken a long time to become proficient.

For software the only thing that really makes sense for rocketry are the parametric tools like OpenSCAD or FreeCAD. You don't want to really "draw" rocket parts as much as you want to design them from scale dimensions. Perhaps OpenRocket will be enhanced one day to export parts as STL files. That would be revolutionary for the hobby.

I'm a user and huge fan of the Printrbot Metal Simple for rocketry and have printed all of the the stuff that appears in the photos I've posted here recently. Highly recommended.

Rob
 
robnee said:
The Printrbot Metal simple will produce excellent print quality. At least as good as anything under $3K. What you give up with it is only print volume as it's only 6"x6"x6" vs. some of the other popular Rep 2 clones. It use all metal parts that are robust and less prone to wear and misalignment over time. It's only $599. It doesn't require proprietary filament. It uses open source tools. It's a hobbyist printer to be sure. It's IMHO by far the best value out there and it's proven. Too many of the kickstarter projects are a gamble and not suitable for people without 3d printing experience.

That said, all 3d printers require time and effort to use. You need to learn how to set up and use them. How to maintain and calibrate them. You need to do this and WANT to do this to get the best quality prints. A printer that bills itself as a consumer friendly option is going to be nice for printing little figurines but will have trouble with high tolerance parts. I know this because I've used Makerbots 5th gen (NOT recommended) and Printrbots. The Makerware software is nice but gives you very little control. The Printrbot allows you to use various control and slicing software. Repetier Host with Slic3r or Cura, MatterControl or if you want a paid setup with support, Simplify3D. I worry that the Dremel printer will be a closed system and if it doesn't work well, or it has bugs you are stuck waiting for them to fix it. Since it's a FF maybe it will be open but let's see. Flexibility and "tweakability" is important here. The biggest problem is choosing a printer that has a flaw or shortcoming that cannot be overcome because the problem is out of your hands and in the hands of a company that can't or won't support what you need.

Think of a 3D printer as a CNC mill or lathe. You can get great, repeatable parts out of it but you need to know how to operate it. You can't just expect to hit "print" and get good results. Unlike a 2D printer there are things that don't print well. Objects and shapes with overhangs need support or need to be broken up to print. This requires some experience. It's totally worth it. A 3d printer is absolutely the most enabling tool I've ever purchased in rocketry but it's taken a long time to become proficient.

For software the only thing that really makes sense for rocketry are the parametric tools like OpenSCAD or FreeCAD. You don't want to really "draw" rocket parts as much as you want to design them from scale dimensions. Perhaps OpenRocket will be enhanced one day to export parts as STL files. That would be revolutionary for the hobby.

I'm a user and huge fan of the Printrbot Metal Simple for rocketry and have printed all of the the stuff that appears in the photos I've posted here recently. Highly recommended.

Rob
Click to expand...


Take it from me that Rob does great work with one of those printers.

I do hope that there will be a quality user friendly 3d printer for those of us that would like to make our own parts in the shop for personal use. For me it would have to be a reasonable price along with a not to steep learning curve. I can attest that it is hard to teach an old dog new tricks.:facepalm:

Ed
 
race 58 said:
Take it from me that Rob does great work with one of those printers.

I do hope that there will be a quality user friendly 3d printer for those of us that would like to make our own parts in the shop for personal use. For me it would have to be a reasonable price along with a not to steep learning curve. I can attest that it is hard to teach an old dog new tricks.:facepalm:

Ed
Click to expand...

Thanks Ed! I should say in the spirit of this forum and all the help I've received here if there is any question(s) I can help answer with regards to getting started in to 3d printing for rocketry I'd be happy to try to help.

Rob
 
I saw the Dremel 3d printer briefly at Makerfaire on Sunday. It looks pretty nice actually for the price. Seems to be a better value than the Makerbot mini. It does not appear to use "chipped" filament but it has a closed top. The Dremel spools are designed to go inside the machine and are probably of a non-standard size so feeding other brands of filaments would require modifying the printer and rigging up an external spool.

The Dremel people seem really excited to be entering this market so that's good I suppose.

Rob
 
great! the flashforge web site sells 2.2 lb filament spools (the standard size) they say work with all their printers so there should be room. I have a few 1 lb spools and teh don't last all that long and I have feeding issues with them. the 2.2 lb spools seem to work better.
 
The Dremel spools appear to be smaller than 1kg (2.2lbs). Home Depot lists them as 1.1lb so I assume they are 0.5kg spools. I'm pretty sure the large FF spools won't fit IN the printer but they ought to be able to fed in from outside if you remove the top or cut a hole and rig something up.
 
that could be the case. I looked at the manuals for both and the spools do appear to be skinnier than my 1kg spools. that's too bad because their internal spool holders seem pretty nice. :(
 
Good call on the manual. I didn't know it was available. It shows that the top is easily removable. This means you can run it with any filament fed in from above. It's not as neat as the internal spool but it allows you to save money on filament. That's great news. The software is also downloadable. I think I might check it out to see what it can do. Hopefully it supports things like extrusion temps and speeds. That'll go a long way to being able to get accurate, smooth parts from it. From the manual it looks basic but certainly no more limited that Makerbot Desktop. The front display looks nice too. It alone offers more options and flexibility than Makebot does in their desktop software. If the manual diagrams are accurate then the Z axis is far superior to the Makerbot Mini which uses cheap plastic guides instead of real linear bearings. The hot end and extruder look like FF standard stuff. That's also good news.

I have a feeling the dremel printer will be a hit and the Makerbot Mini is looking even more expensive now. People know the Dremel name, they have huge distribution, the price is fairly reasonable and the design, while vanilla, is proven. They're support has got to be better than Makerbot although this is a new product category so we'll have to wait and see. Im actually pretty optimistic about this printer now.

Rob
 
I've done some 3D printing work for various projects in the recent past, such as plastic enclosures, custom buttons for tactile switches, etc. SolidWorks is actually very easy to learn and is the industry tool of choice for solid modeling. Even if you don't have SolidWorks, you can probably find someone who can take your sketch and turn it into an STL file using SW (or another parametric design program). Heck, I'd be happy to help as time permits (just shoot me a message). The "rocket" in my avatar was done in SolidWorks.

As for the Dremel printer, I've read that its got a non-heated platform, so you're limited to PLA plastics only (no ABS).
 
is solidworks purely a parametric tool? I watched a video yesterday from them highlighting direct editing and now I'm confused?

I've been meaning to play around with 123d, but haven't had the time. I'm very confortable using autocad and I'm hoping that they are similar.

but the biggest issue with solidworks is the price. unless you are a student, it isn't cheap.
 
Derek said:
is solidworks purely a parametric tool? I watched a video yesterday from them highlighting direct editing and now I'm confused?
Click to expand...

SolidWorks is a parametric solid modeling tool, meaning that you can freely draw any shapes, but you can also define the dimensions (parameters) of everything (ex: length, width, etc.). It's pretty much all point-and-click. For example, if you want to draw a cube, you start with a sketch of square. You can "constrain" the sketch by placing dimensions on it's width/height. From there, you can "extrude" the sketch to the height you wish. You now have a 3D cube (or whatever shape). From there, you can cut away at the model (such as bore a hole through it), chamfer the edges, etc. That's all stuff you'd learn on Day 1 of a SW course. Once you get down the basics, you can learn pretty much everything else you need as you need it (such as Simulation, Flow/CFD, etc).

For nose cones, you simply draw a sketch of 1/2 of the profile, then you can "revolve" the profile sketch around the vertical axis, creating a 3D model of a nose cone. I've not used sketch-up, but I'd imagine it would have all those fairly basic features. I've used AutoCad forever, and DraftSight more recently (it's free, almost identical to AutoCad and it's from the same company that makes SolidWorks). If you can do 2D, 3D is just one more dimension. :)

Price... yep, it's a doozy. $4-8k+ depending on features. Best bet is to use one of the free alternatives out there (Sketch-up) or find someone with SW access.
 
I just bit the bullet and ordered one of the new Dremel printers. It has a few things I do NOT like, and almost made me say no.

1. PLA only
2. You must use Dremel's PLA. Other brands PLA spools will not fit, and will void your warranty.

I would much rather have a good MakerBot but the price point just doesn't fit my credit card.
 
This one looks interesting, but somewhat out of the ball park for most of us :)

https://www.fool.com/investing/gene...ter-what-does-it-mean-for-3d-printing-st.aspx

The 800-pound gorilla has awoken: ​
Hewlett-Packard Company
(NYSE: HPQ​
) will enter the 3D printing market in 2016, armed with a homegrown 3D printing technology for the industrial segment that it's calling Multi Jet Fusion. 3D printing stocks initially sold off on the news.​
 
Derek said:
they slapped their name on a flashforge dreamer and removed one extruder:

dreamer-i-1-web-nobg.jpg


https://www.flashforge-usa.com/shop/3d-printers/flashforge-dreamer-dual-extrusion-3d-printer.html

I like the nice enclosure. it looks much better then the diy ones (mine included). I'm really interested to learn about the sw more. they talk about it in the video, but I can't find any info about it online. :(
Click to expand...


Where’s the button for popcorn?
 
Right Wing Wacko said:
This one looks interesting, but somewhat out of the ball park for most of us :)

https://www.fool.com/investing/gene...ter-what-does-it-mean-for-3d-printing-st.aspx

The 800-pound gorilla has awoken: ​
Hewlett-Packard Company
(NYSE: HPQ​
) will enter the 3D printing market in 2016, armed with a homegrown 3D printing technology for the industrial segment that it's calling Multi Jet Fusion. 3D printing stocks initially sold off on the news.​
Click to expand...

I so want to play with one of these... probably the closest I'll get is ordering something from shapeways (or another 3d printing company) once these actually start shipping. Looks like its just some prototypes, videos/interviews, FAQs, press releases, and white papers so far...
 
Right Wing Wacko said:
I just bit the bullet and ordered one of the new Dremel printers. It has a few things I do NOT like, and almost made me say no.

1. PLA only
2. You must use Dremel's PLA. Other brands PLA spools will not fit, and will void your warranty.

I would much rather have a good MakerBot but the price point just doesn't fit my credit card.
Click to expand...

I HAVE a Makerbot 5th gen and I would much rather have one of these. Using their PLA isn't a bit deal if it's good and works well. For rocket parts an overpriced roll still goes a long way. Motors are probably 25x my PLA budget. I could pay double the price for PLA and it would never even be noticed in the ol' rocketry budget.

HAging said that how's the print quality? Any photos of some rocket parts?

Rob
 
First Impressions

My Dremel printer arrived today. Amazon Prime's two day shipping got it to my door the day after it became available for sale, so I'm one of the first to actually have one.

I have not done a lot with it yet, as I know I have a big learning curve to learn 3d design.

That said the printer could not be easier to use. Threading the PLA was a breeze, and it took less than 2 minutes to level the print surface. A few button presses later the printer was running smoothly printing the Dremel Test Item. Fifty five minutes later I had my first 3d printed item.

I still have not figured out what the XYL will do when she figures out that the new printer I just got cost a few dollars more than the last inkjet :)
 
robnee said:
HAging said that how's the print quality? Any photos of some rocket parts?

Rob
Click to expand...

I tried the Rock-A-Chute nosecone from Thing-a-verse and discovered a problem.
The crayon sharpener (nose cone) printed just fine but the cap that goes in the bottom bubbled and is unusable.

I think the Extruder temp is to high (220c) so it's time to do some research and play around a bit.

xqmMtp6.jpg
 

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