ProLine Composites Thin Wall Tubing

ProLine Composites (Performance Rocketry) now offers even more sizes in G12 thin wall airframe tubing.
For years we have offered 29mm, 38mm, 54mm, and 2.6 inch in the thin wall tubing. We are now expanding it to offer 3 inch and 4 inch also.
The thin wall in all sizes will have a wall thickness of .040 inches.

Here are the ID and OD of the available sizes.
29mm 1.145 ID and 1.225 OD Weight 1.8oz / FT
38mm 1.520 ID and 1.600 OD Weight 2.6oz / FT
54mm 2.152 ID and 2.232 OD Weight 4.0oz / FT
2.6 Inch 2.560 ID and 2.640 OD Weight 5.3oz / FT
3 Inch 3.000 ID and 3.080 OD Weight 6.0oz / FT
4 Inch 3.900 ID and 3.980 OD Weight 7.6oz / FT

We also have some additional good news, not only do we offer the thin tubing but we have cones to match.
Filament Wound cones
38mm 5:1 VonKarman - 5:1 Conical
54mm 5:1 VonKarman - 5:1 Ogive - 5:1 Conical
3 Inch 5:1 VonKarman - 5:1 Ogive - 4:1 Ogive
4 Inch 5:1 VonKarman - 5:1 Ogive - 5:1 Conical - 4:1 Ogive - 3:1 Ogive
Lots of new shapes coming soon !!

Cesaroni Technology Injection Molded Poly-carbonate Nosecones
38mm 5:1 VonKarman (Black or Clear)
54mm 4:1 VonKarman (Black or Clear)
(These cones are not intended for use over Mach as they could melt)

These and all of our other products are available through our quality dealers listed below.

Rocketry Warehouse www.rocketrywarehouse.com
ProLine Rocketry www.prolinerocketry.com
MadCow Rocketry www.madcowrocketry.com
Performance Hobbies www.performancehobbies.com


Thank You
ProLine Composites

Some new pictures of the new Cesaroni Injection molded plastic nosecones.

This makes me very happy.

So tell me more about the FW nosecones that match the thinwall. Metal tip or no? I don't see that any of your dealers/distributors have them actually listed on their websites yet. Prices? Weight?

Thanks for expanding the offerings.
s6

the injection molded cones can't go over mach? I have a black 38mm injected cone from wildman and it looks to be glass filled. seems like they should be able to take some heat.

stealth6 said:

This makes me very happy.

So tell me more about the FW nosecones that match the thinwall. Metal tip or no? I don't see that any of your dealers/distributors have them actually listed on their websites yet. Prices? Weight?

Thanks for expanding the offerings.
s6

Click to expand...

Rocketry Warehouse has the tubes listed and will be adding the FW-thin option soon.
Just call or email one of our dealers and they can help you make the order if the product is not listed.
Dealers will be adding thin wall materials to their web stores very soon.

Most cones are standard metal tip and some are offered as a composite molded tip.
But an example the 38mm with metal tip weights about 3 ounces (very light)

Very soon we will be offering machined solid fiberglass tips.

Thank You
ProLine Composites

RKeller said:

the injection molded cones can't go over mach? I have a black 38mm injected cone from wildman and it looks to be glass filled. seems like they should be able to take some heat.

Click to expand...

Yes, same exact cone made by CTI and yes it is 20% glass filled, the glass is used to increase strength and thermal expansion (changing shape with temp change (e.g. summer to winter))
Poly-carbonate has a melting temp at about 300 F and starts loosing structural integrity at about 239F.
So if you want to use it for mach and only planning on going to mach for a real short time then you might be fine.
I thought it important to mention as people have a higher tendency to go over mach these days.

Thank You
ProLine Composites

Since that cat is out of the bag. Yes, CTI is making these nose cones.

performancerocketry said:

Poly-carbonate has a melting temp at about 300 F and starts loosing structural integrity at about 239F. So if you want to use it for mach and only planning on going to mach for a real short time then you might be fine.

Click to expand...

The F35 canopy is made out of polycarbonate and that aircraft has a maximum speed of Mach 1.6+. CTI uses a high-performance polycarbonate with a glass transition temperature of 295F and softening point of 300F.

These nose cones are fine up to Mach 2, and for short durations probably even much higher speeds.

Jeroen

whats the price differance between the 2 different sizes hopefully less material means less price

Jeroen_at_CTI said:

The F35 canopy is made out of polycarbonate and that aircraft has a maximum speed of Mach 1.6+. CTI uses a high-performance polycarbonate with a glass transition temperature of 295F and softening point of 300F. That is a much higher softening point than that of filament winding epoxies.
Jeroen

Click to expand...

2 things as a follow up.

1.On the F35 the canopy is inside of boundary layer air and not exposed to the aerodynamic heating. The tip of the F35 is not made from polycarbonate, it is titanium to handle the heat. And even if it did (it does not) the F35 Canopy is about 1.5 inches thick and does not loose structural integrity as easy as something only 1/16 thick

2. The filament wound cones have a tip made from aluminum which has a melting point of 1200 F (will handle Mach 4 easily)

The tip of the nosecone takes the brunt of the heat..

Thank You
ProLine Composites

performancerocketry said:

2. The filament wound cones have a tip made from aluminum which has a melting point of 1200 F (will handle Mach 4 easily)

Click to expand...

Any plans for a shoulder on said tips so they can make it to mach 4?

patelldp said:

Any plans for a shoulder on said tips so they can make it to mach 4?

Click to expand...

+1.

patelldp said:

Any plans for a shoulder on said tips so they can make it to mach 4?

Click to expand...

Some of our tips already have a shoulder and there are plenty of options to insure success to mach 4 without a shoulder.

Thank You
ProLine Composites

performancerocketry said:

Some of our tips already have a shoulder and there are plenty of options to insure success to mach 4 without a shoulder.

Thank You
ProLine Composites

Click to expand...

Just curious, which ones? I have a 54mm, 76mm, 3x 98mm, and a 5" and none of them have the shoulders. Is this a new development? If so, great!

Any recommendations on the speeds attainable with the 54mm thin wall nosecones with the integral tip? I will be pushing the thin wall tubing and said cone to over mach 2 at LDRS and wanted to see what your thoughts were.

performancerocketry said:

Some of our tips already have a shoulder and there are plenty of options to insure success to mach 4 without a shoulder.

Thank You
ProLine Composites

Click to expand...

The only way I know to keep the tip centered is a thick aluminum spacer JB'welded to base of tip to make my own shoulder. Seems to work, but what a kludge. Those tips mis-align a lot more than I think you think.

This is a cool thread. Thank you Performance Rocketry and CTI for the exciting stuff coming out. It is nice to have choices. I am thinking that one could have more than one nosecone for a rocket for different purposes. The CTI cone might be nice for long burning high shots. Maybe some high temp paint could render the nosecone useful to mach 2.6 or so for short bursts.

Jeroen_at_CTI said:

Since that cat is out of the bag. Yes, CTI is making these nose cones.



The F35 canopy is made out of polycarbonate and that aircraft has a maximum speed of Mach 1.6+. CTI uses a high-performance polycarbonate with a glass transition temperature of 295F and softening point of 300F. That is a much higher softening point than that of filament winding epoxies.

These nose cones are fine up to Mach 2, and for short durations probably even much higher speeds.

Jeroen

Click to expand...

Do I sense a new contest? Who can melt one first with a CTI motor?

patelldp said:

Do I sense a new contest? Who can melt one first with a CTI motor?

Click to expand...

I've got one. I think it'll take quite a bit to melt. I'd expect them to outlast LOC cones, and those take quite a bit. Most flights aren't supersonic long.

That said... only one way to find out.

I have a 54mm cone that has a tip with a shoulder.


JD

patelldp said:

Just curious, which ones? I have a 54mm, 76mm, 3x 98mm, and a 5" and none of them have the shoulders. Is this a new development? If so, great!

Any recommendations on the speeds attainable with the 54mm thin wall nosecones with the integral tip? I will be pushing the thin wall tubing and said cone to over mach 2 at LDRS and wanted to see what your thoughts were.

Click to expand...

Are we going to see a faze out of Performance tubeing and nose cones that they offer now? I hope not

crossfire said:

Are we going to see a faze out of Performance tubeing and nose cones that they offer now? I hope not

Click to expand...

Absolutely not, actually the opposite we will be adding new products all the time. In fact we have several new products this week alone.
We will be sharing new product announcements weekly.

Thank You
ProLine Composites

Jeroen_at_CTI said:

CTI uses a high-performance polycarbonate with a glass transition temperature of 295F and softening point of 300F. That is a much higher softening point than that of filament winding epoxies.

Click to expand...

I ran side-by-side slices of the polycarb and filament wound nose cones in the DSC a few months ago. It's very nice material. I'll dig up the files and plot them soon!

I've had the chance to work with the thin-walled airframes in 38mm, 54mm, 3", & 4" diameters and am thrilled these are going mainstream. They enabled several projects and I ordered some more from Rocketry Warehouse just this evening. Thanks for making these and getting them into the mainstream of the hobby. I expect a number of new kits to use these new "standards". Now if only we could get some thin-walled CF airframes for minimum diameter projects. I'll be happy to do field testing of those. We also need thin walled couplers, especially at the smaller diameters - mass is everything when Mach matters.

JMZawodny said:

I've had the chance to work with the thin-walled airframes in 38mm, 54mm, 3", & 4" diameters and am thrilled these are going mainstream.

Click to expand...

Cool. What kind of punishment were you able to do with a minimum diameter 54 mm thin walled airframe? I am starting a scratch build. I have my tubes but could be talked into thin wall tubes. I would like to be able to put a K1440, and L935 in mine, as well as a K300.

4kids49 said:

Cool. What kind of punishment were you able to do with a minimum diameter 54 mm thin walled airframe? I am starting a scratch build. I have my tubes but could be talked into thin wall tubes. I would like to be able to put a K1440, and L935 in mine, as well as a K300.

Click to expand...

I'm thinking ahead to the Loki 54/4000 Mxxxx Red, if that is any indication. Mass is everything.

JMZawodny said:

I'm thinking ahead to the Loki 54/4000 Mxxxx Red, if that is any indication. Mass is everything.

Click to expand...

+1 on Loki 54/4000. On my list. Not trivial for me in California at the moment.

A 54mm M and thin wall filament wound tubing may not be the best combination. Sometimes mass is okay, especially when you trade it for the necessary strength to survive.

If someone has the ability, it would be wonderful to test the compression failure point of these tubes. It would be much more difficult, but testing the thin wall nosecones would be cool too. I will be pushing them to Mach 2 speeds and doubt I will have any issues, but 3+ is pretty severe.

patelldp said:

A 54mm M and thin wall filament wound tubing may not be the best combination. Sometimes mass is okay, especially when you trade it for the necessary strength to survive.

If someone has the ability, it would be wonderful to test the compression failure point of these tubes. It would be much more difficult, but testing the thin wall nosecones would be cool too. I will be pushing them to Mach 2 speeds and doubt I will have any issues, but 3+ is pretty severe.

Click to expand...

Very true Dan. Let us know how your testing goes. Mach 3 is probably always extreme. I am staying with regular tubing for now. I need to fill in the big area under the curve. I can squeak out the high end stuff later. Might try it for a long burn shot though. Would be fun. I don't have any simulation software. I have Apple computer and don't have Rock Sim yet. Isn't some mass also good for coast phase after burnout? It seems like I have read about people saying stuff like, "the optimum simulated rocket mass for a particular motor was higher than the build weight" and things like that.

4kids49 said:

Very true Dan. Let us know how your testing goes. Mach 3 is probably always extreme. I am staying with regular tubing for now. I need to fill in the big area under the curve. I can squeak out the high end stuff later. Might try it for a long burn shot though. Would be fun. I don't have any simulation software. I have Apple computer and don't have Rock Sim yet. Isn't some mass also good for coast phase after burnout? It seems like I have read about people saying stuff like, "the optimum simulated rocket mass for a particular motor was higher than the build weight" and things like that.

Click to expand...

Optimum weight depends upon the metric you want to maximize. If you are going for altitude the optimal mass will likely be heavier than if you are going for maximum velocity. My real interest in all of this thin-walled tube is at the smaller diameters. We really need a good matching nose cone for the 29mm tube.

My order of thin-walled tubing arrived from Rocketry Warehouse today. The 38mm and 54mm are similar to what I've used in the past, i.e., nice stuff. I bought a 4' length of the 4" in black. The uniformity of the wind is beautiful and I'm glad I did not plan to paint that. I'll report back on residual stress and deformation once I cut and slot the tube. I also bought a 5' length of the thin-wall 29mm tube. This is what 29mm tube is supposed to look and feel like. It came in just under 2oz/ft. I just wish there was a matching plastic or lightweight fiberglass nose cone for that. Hint hint.

Thanks!