Hey, it's a free country. Whats your beef?

Ok, here's the deal.
I sees on Ebay that someone is selling lots/sets of Estes rockets.
They have a starting bid.
What I noticed is the date posted (after Labor Day)and the fact that all the rockets are ones that were in Estes Labor Day sale.
You add in the shipping, this seller is making a killing. (If they bought them during the Labor Day sale)
Me-self..I couldnt gouge the rocket community like this seller.

Anyone want to chime in on this matter?
I only ask that you send me one dollar if you reply to this post. I just bought a new(er) truck and need coin for my rocketry hobby. :eyeroll:

EDIT Reguards to my use of the word "Gouge" ,please see post #6 before you shoot me dead. :bangbang:

Its been that way on eBay since Estes started the same sale every Holiday last November.

One of the guys at work buys up Nike shoes when on cleance sales then puts them on eBay at a later date.

Scotty Dog said:

Me-self..I couldnt gouge the rocket community like this seller.

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Gouge? He's got a product that he's selling. If nobody wants it they won't buy it. If they do, they will. I see no forced purchasing here. Nobody requires a rocket kit.

All I see is Free Enterprise alive and well. Go USA!

Poor form by the seller. But, if someone decides to part their money with the guy, that is their business. Caveat emptor! For everyone of those, there are others who are fair. I'm getting rid of my n-scale train collection and not gouging. Well as soon as I sort it I am! I just want the stuff out of my basement to make room for more rocket stuff and more beer brewing stuff (my two passions)

Mike


Launching rockets (or missiles in my case) is so easy a chimp could do it. Read a step, do a step, eat a banana.

Sent from my iPad Air using Rocketry Forum.

Mushtang said:

Nobody requires a rocket kit.

All I see is Free Enterprise alive and well. Go USA!

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I'm looking forward to that dollar.
As far as,Nobody requires a rocket kit. .. I wouldnt be so sure of that..:wink: :lol:

P.S. I guess by definition, "Gouge" was not the correct terminology. As you say the kits are not a necessity or required.
Anywhoo- Me,being part of the rocketry community ,I would not buy kits for chump change and then sell them for big coin.
As I said many times over, I like to..."Pay It Forward"

Free country and to each his own.
That being said,I choice to treat others as I would expect to be treated.
Its not.."Do unto others ,then split."

I agree that it is a free country and free enterprise is alive and well. It is, ultimately, up to the buyer to be vigilant and know what they are buying and what it is worth. Nothing that the seller is doing seems illegal, but legal does not always mean right. This comes down to an ethics problem in my opinion.

These were bought at a retail sale price and they are currently in production. If they are OOP, I could see it but there are Mean Machine kits, and other forgotten gems, out there that are retail or below + shipping. Most sellers are generally fair, if not the bargain that we dream of. Unfortunately, there are some that seem to be trolling for the uninformed buyer that just grabs the first shiny thing that fits the bill without any comparison pricing. P T Barnum definitely had it right.

Screaminhelo said:

P T Barnum definitely had it right.

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What? Who's PT Barnum? I'd pay to hear what he had to say. Pay lots.
I hear someone has a mermaid corpse and you can see it for only $20! For reals!

Pat Barnum never said that. Google it or look it up on Snopes.

I don't really see a problem with it from the point of view of the seller doing something wrong. Any buyer has the option of shopping around, and if this seller's prices are better than other retailers', then who cares if this seller makes a few bucks facilitating that.

What I think is a bit of a problem is that Estes is kind of undercutting their dealers with these deep discount holiday sales, and this is a perfect example. The sales are great for us customers, but when the manufacturer sells direct to the public for at or below wholesale, it takes away sales from established dealers, and it creates opportunities for these kinds of temporary eBay dealers.

shreadvector said:

Pat Barnum never said that. Google it or look it up on Snopes.

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"Nobody ever lost a dollar by underestimating the taste of the American public". P.T. Barnum

The sucker quote, which is associated with Mr. Barnum, is actually from his competitor (I do not recall his name) in reference to the public's frenzy over the Cardiff Giant.

Screaminhelo said:

"Nobody ever lost a dollar by underestimating the taste of the American public". P.T. Barnum

The sucker quote, which is associated with Mr. Barnum, is actually from his competitor (I do not recall his name) in reference to the public's frenzy over the Cardiff Giant.

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Bazinga...

I accidentaly bought and paid too much for something on ebay.

I lived.

Then I went and bought something on sale from newegg. it was cheaper an hour later. by 40 bucks.

I lived.

I completely forgot about that 20.00 mail-in-rebate, until day 31, then I did it twice.

I lived.

ThirstyBarbarian said:

I don't really see a problem with it from the point of view of the seller doing something wrong. Any buyer has the option of shopping around, and if this seller's prices are better than other retailers', then who cares if this seller makes a few bucks facilitating that.

What I think is a bit of a problem is that Estes is kind of undercutting their dealers with these deep discount holiday sales, and this is a perfect example. The sales are great for us customers, but when the manufacturer sells direct to the public for at or below wholesale, it takes away sales from established dealers, and it creates opportunities for these kinds of temporary eBay dealers.

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agreed. But, also they should start making all OP products because you can only find them on ebay for 100's more than they should be.

CzTeacherMan said:

Bazinga...

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Bazinga, no. shreadvector just figured that I was referring to "There's a sucker born every minute", an oft repeated quote that is very commonly, and mistakenly credited to Mr. Barnum. Credit should go to Mr. David Hannum (I did have to search for that). I should have include the quote to which I was referring, as it is not as widely known; however, it seems very appropriate in describing business practices such as these. Look up the Cardiff Giant, it is a pretty amusing story.

We like to think that the modern world that we live in has changed us, but it hasn't. I had a history teacher in 9th grade who, on the first day of class, told us that if we remembered nothing else from his lessons we should never forget that throughout history, people haven't changed but technology has. Our motives remain the same while advances in technology make us more efficient in all that we do, good or bad.

Though I disagree with the practices of the seller, I still defend their right to engage in a legal business. It is our responsibility to be an informed consumer and not buy on impulse.

It's remarkable how many of the tools sold on eBay are from Harbor Freight. Usually bought at a sale and sold for retail(or more). I tried to complement someone once for selling a Harbor Freight wagon for $20 over HF list, guy got all defensive

Screaminhelo said:

I agree that it is a free country and free enterprise is alive and well. It is, ultimately, up to the buyer to be vigilant and know what they are buying and what it is worth.

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Correct. Perhaps a buyer wanted a rocket kit but the Estes sale was over, and now they have an opportunity to buy a kit on eBay cheaper than they can from the Estes web site. Being vigilant and looking around has saved them money. The seller makes a couple of bucks for his trouble and the buyer gets a kit they want for less money than elsewhere. Win-win for both of them, but you're unhappy with it.

If you had your way and the buyer had to pay more money and get the rocket directly from Estes you would be happier. And if the buyer didn't have enough money and a cheaper kit wasn't available on eBay, so he gets nothing, it sounds like you'd prefer that too.

Screaminhelo said:

Nothing that the seller is doing seems illegal, but legal does not always mean right. This comes down to an ethics problem in my opinion.

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So you think that reselling something for a bit of profit isn't right, and is unethical. Even if the buyer and the seller agree on the terms and are both happy about the exchange?

I'm not trying to be confrontational, I promise. I just don't understand this kind of thinking and would like to have it explained in a way that makes sense.

Screaminhelo said:

"Nobody ever lost a dollar by underestimating the taste of the American public". P.T. Barnum

The sucker quote, which is associated with Mr. Barnum, is actually from his competitor (I do not recall his name) in reference to the public's frenzy over the Cardiff Giant.

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"Democracy is a pathetic belief in the collective wisdom of individual ignorance. No one in this world, so far as I know—and I have researched the records for years, and employed agents to help me—has ever lost money by underestimating the intelligence of the great masses of the plain people. Nor has anyone ever lost public office thereby." - H.L. Mencken

PhlAsh said:

"Democracy is a pathetic belief in the collective wisdom of individual ignorance. No one in this world, so far as I know—and I have researched the records for years, and employed agents to help me—has ever lost money by underestimating the intelligence of the great masses of the plain people. Nor has anyone ever lost public office thereby." - H.L. Mencken

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Mencken, one of my favorite cynics.

“As democracy is perfected, the office of president represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron.” - H.L. Mencken

Scotty Dog said:

Ok, here's the deal.
I sees on Ebay that someone is selling lots/sets of Estes rockets.
They have a starting bid.
What I noticed is the date posted (after Labor Day)and the fact that all the rockets are ones that were in Estes Labor Day sale.
You add in the shipping, this seller is making a killing. (If they bought them during the Labor Day sale)
Me-self..I couldnt gouge the rocket community like this seller.

Anyone want to chime in on this matter?
I only ask that you send me one dollar if you reply to this post. I just bought a new(er) truck and need coin for my rocketry hobby. :eyeroll:

EDIT Reguards to my use of the word "Gouge" ,please see post #6 before you shoot me dead. :bangbang:

Click to expand...

I have no problem with it unless they bought so many that they prevented others from getting a rocket they wanted in the Estes sale.

Nobody forces the buyer the buy the product. If someone is impulsive enough to take the first offer they see without checking it out that's their own decision.
Buyer sees offer
Buyer wants product
Buyer decides (with or without research, it is ALL on the buyer) price is worth it to him/her
Buyer sends money
Buyer gets what he/she bought
Nobody got cheated.

Some buyers don't want to waste time price shopping. That's on them, not the seller.

You forget, seller takes a risk here too. May not be able to find enough "non-price checking" buyers to cover his costs.

Ultimately however my opinion (and likely every one else's) opinion is moot. This is a private transaction between the buyer and seller.

Mushtang said:

I'm not trying to be confrontational, I promise. I just don't understand this kind of thinking and would like to have it explained in a way that makes sense.

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Its a fair question Mushtang and my statements may seem to be somewhat contradictory. First I suggest that the seller may be engaging in legal yet unethical practices by buying the rockets and reselling them, then I support capitalism and a seller's right to sell at the price they choose to set. I do admit that I may be drawing a fine line here but my opposition in this instance is that these kits were bought at aretail sale price for the purpose of re-sale. If you were do the same thing with a brick and mortar business, selling the product in the same locale, they would likely take action stop you from selling their product once they were aware of what was happening. I am sure that Estes anticipates such practices and accepts the negligible impact that it will have on their business, that is their choice.

I am aware that my position may seem very narrow minded to some. I am O.K. with that and I am happy to agree to disagree.

In the end, BABAR is right. The original purchase was a private transaction and the re-sale was a private transaction and they all seem to feel as though they got a fair deal. Maybe I am just too much of a backwoods, small town anachronism for modern era commerce. I miss getting to see the person that I am buying from face to face.

PhlAsh- I have never seen that before, I am not familiar with Mencken. I just want to know had the thought first. Time to Google!

Simple--don't buy from sellers you don't respect.

I see this all the time in the model railroad section/s. Kits/products being sold with starting bids that are higher than what you can easily find at online retailers.

What I really find despicable are people that are taking some manufactures product; assembling the kit,making a mold from it and then selling cheap knock-off resin castings of said product.

boomtube-mk2 said:

What I really find despicable are people that are taking some manufactures product; assembling the kit,making a mold from it and then selling cheap knock-off resin castings of said product.

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That probably is illegal. Verses what some of the others have mentioned about buying a product at sale price to resell to make a profit.

It is simple in this case. If you are on an online store like ebay, then you already have at your fingertips the ability to do the research for your purchase. It is easier and faster than ever to know how much something is, how much it should be, how scarce it is, etc.

FC

I don't have a problem with it, its how I make my spending money, buy low sell high it's capitalism. I buy old sewing machines fix and/or clean them and sell them for twice or three times what I bought them for, sometimes I don't have to do anything to them.


TA

Here's my favorite EBAY seller:



Only $58.00 for a rocket that Quest sells for $13.59!!!
But that does include "Free" shipping.

This opinion comes from a guy who sells flying Badminton Birdies for $6.00.

There's a sense in which anyone who is willing to buy something without doing a quick Google search deserves what he gets.

thobin said:

I don't have a problem with it, its how I make my spending money, buy low sell high it's capitalism. I buy old sewing machines fix and/or clean them and sell them for twice or three times what I bought them for, sometimes I don't have to do anything to them.

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And I salute you. You are adding value by fixing and/or cleaning them.

Screaminhelo said:

And I salute you. You are adding value by fixing and/or cleaning them.

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Sometimes I do nothing to them just flip them. I guess I do the work of finding them in the first place.


TA