LTV Scout Plastic Parts

robnee · Sep 10, 2014

I'm working on the plastic parts for the Estes LTV Scout #1287. I have a few questions. Since this kit used non-standard tube sizes with odd ODs:

SBT-123BE 1.228"
SBT-127GC 1.274"
SBT-139BJ 1.389"

I am wondering. Does anyone have a source for these or something close? I'd like to make the parts and post them to Thingaverse.com in a form that would be most useful. Would people rather have accurate parts and make their own tubes or would they want the parts adapted to something close, like, using BT-55 coupler stock for the SBT-127GC?

Here's some pics.

marcusSRG · Sep 10, 2014

I don't know how much I can help you, but that thing looks like it would be super cool! Are you familiar with totally tubular? I know they were bought by someone but I don't know their current status.

Astronot · Sep 10, 2014

I happen to own an LTV Scout that I built and I love it, but I personally would love to be able to clone it with off the shelf standard tubes that you can buy from just about anywhere, verse having to custom make tubes to fit the original design. I think the original design is to scale, that would be the reason for the odd tube sizes. But I'm okay with semi-scale to make things a little easier.

I build to fly, and having said that, it would be nice to have access to original size replacement parts for repairs when needed. I would think there would be a bigger market for the original size parts than for something all together different and not very interchangeable. Catch my drift?

Just my two cents,

David

dpower · Sep 13, 2014

Totally tubular was bought by erockets https://www.erockets.biz. They have the common Centuri size tubes, but I don't think they ever had the LTV scout diameters.

Seems like you'd have to go with the closest you could find either at erockets or BMS.

jimzcatz · Sep 13, 2014

I have a built one I would be willing to part with, as thats all its prolly worth(parts). I will post pics later.

robnee · Sep 13, 2014

I'm doing the drawings in Open SCAD so they are completely parametric. I can just type in the sizes of the tubes and rerender the parts. I think people have made good cases for having the parts both to scale and semi-scale. I'll post both sets of parts.

Now, what I really need is for the clever builders here to suggest tubes that are a close fit to the odd original tubes for the semi-scale version. Here's what I have come up with:

SBT-123BE 1.228" Substitute T52H at 1.210"
SBT-127GC 1.274" Substitute BT-55 coupler stock at 1.280"
SBT-139BJ 1.389". Substitute BT-55 at 1.325" maybe with an extra tube layer to build it up to size?

The SBT-123BE which sits atop an ever-so-slight transition from the section of SBT-127GC. Due to the transition you can't really cheat and use the same tube as the substitute for the SBT-127GC here. It just wouldn't look right. The heavy wall T52H is as close as I can find. The The BT-55 coupler stock means more work filling and finishing too. That could be eased by just using BT55 which is a little less scale but easier to finish.

Anyone else have any other ideas for readily available substitutes?

Another way to go is to print the entire top 11" or so avoiding finding the substitutes for SBT-123BE and SBT-139BJ. It might be a little heavy though but the original kit does call for nose weight so might not be a bad thing.

I need to get to work and provide some comparison drawings...

Rob

Astronot · Sep 13, 2014

I seem to remember Sandman (Excelsior Rocketry) turned the top 11 inches out of Balsa and sold parts kits for a little while. People seemed to like them a lot. Never heard of any stability problems. So printing the top section in plastic probably would not adversely affect the stability of the rocket. It has such small fins it really needs the extra weight in the nose for stability.

David

Astronot · Sep 13, 2014

Don't know if this will help or not. These dimensions are for the Estes LTV Scout Kit #1287. I pulled this info from this link on page 10.

https://www.psc473.org/howto/EstesTubes.pdf

Estes Body Tube/Kit Reference List
Kit Number Kit Name P/N Designation Length P/N Designation Length P/N Designation Length
Estes Body Tube List 10 February 2008, Rev. 3.1

1287 LTV Scout (Appendix 1)
030415 BT-60KC 12.875"
030488 SBT-139BJ 2.00"
030446 SBT-123BE 2.50"
030447 SBT-127GC 7.26"
030322 BT-20D 6.5"

This link will give you the dimension you need for each body tube.

https://www.ninfinger.org/rockets/body_tubes.html

Once you have the correct sizes then you can go shopping. The 3 SBT body tubes will be your odd balls that will take some hunting to replace or get close to.

Hope this helps,

David

P.S. Oh I see what you're doing. You're quoting O.D. dimensions not I.D. dimensions. You threw me off a little with that. Sorry.

dpower · Sep 14, 2014

robnee said:
I'm doing the drawings in Open SCAD so they are completely parametric. I can just type in the sizes of the tubes and rerender the parts. I think people have made good cases for having the parts both to scale and semi-scale. I'll post both sets of parts.

Now, what I really need is for the clever builders here to suggest tubes that are a close fit to the odd original tubes for the semi-scale version. Here's what I have come up with:

SBT-123BE 1.228" Substitute T52H at 1.210"
SBT-127GC 1.274" Substitute BT-55 coupler stock at 1.280"
SBT-139BJ 1.389". Substitute BT-55 at 1.325" maybe with an extra tube layer to build it up to size?

The SBT-123BE which sits atop an ever-so-slight transition from the section of SBT-127GC. Due to the transition you can't really cheat and use the same tube as the substitute for the SBT-127GC here. It just wouldn't look right. The heavy wall T52H is as close as I can find. The The BT-55 coupler stock means more work filling and finishing too. That could be eased by just using BT55 which is a little less scale but easier to finish.

Anyone else have any other ideas for readily available substitutes?

Another way to go is to print the entire top 11" or so avoiding finding the substitutes for SBT-123BE and SBT-139BJ. It might be a little heavy though but the original kit does call for nose weight so might not be a bad thing.

I need to get to work and provide some comparison drawings...

Rob

For SBT-139BJ, ST-13 is a bit closer at 1.34" O.D., but erockets (Totally Tubular) doesn't have this size, only Semroc does, so future availability seems dicey. I'd lean towards printing at least this top section to get close. I wouldn't worry about the extra finishing of the coupler stock, the nearly exact size is more important.

robnee · Sep 19, 2014

Here's a couple of photos. It's taken a while to design the fin assembly. It's got some detail that I wanted to capture and I wanted to tweak the original design to make it a little stronger. The fins print as two halves that are glued together. The fins and base have screw holes that I sized for #2 1/2" screws to more firmly attach the fins. I was never happy about the little fin tabs and simply gluing them on. The fins sweep below the tail and take most of the landing and are prone to popping off. The screw adds a lot of strength. They can be omitted or you can use replace with pins or dowels etc. The parts are completely unfinished. I intend to fill and sand the fins to hide the layer lines. More photos to follow and as always I will post this on Thingiverse.com when completed.

Rob

vcp · Sep 21, 2014

Looks good. I've done most of the Scout parts, also in OpenScad, but ran into the same problem about what to do with the tubes. Considered printing the upper section as a single too. But, it's been on the back burner for awhile, not quite finished. I printed the fins vertically, which seemed to work well, but I like your method.

robnee · Sep 24, 2014

Gary,

Cool. Did you post these anywhere?

Rob

robnee · Sep 24, 2014

Making some more progress...

astroadrian99 · Sep 29, 2014

Those look good.

robnee · Oct 2, 2014

Here's a couple of photos of the lower transition. I decided to use BT-55 coupler stock as a substitute for BT-127. It's a nice fit.

robnee · Oct 3, 2014

Some more pictures. The "Lil" Scout is to test tube fits.

robnee · Oct 10, 2014

Pictures of the last two parts. The tubing is BT-55T (telescoping) from Aerospace Specialty Products. It's 1.385" OD which is very close to the SBT-139BJ 1.389". I just need to clean things up a bit in order to post the parts. 11 distinct pieces.

Here is a rendering of all of the parts assembled with the ductwork detail.

robnee · Oct 10, 2014

Parts and design files are up on Thingiverse

https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:496576

USAFmissileer · Nov 24, 2014

robnee said:
Parts and design files are up on Thingiverse

https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:496576

I just found my old nose cone section of my LTV. Was my favorite scale model as a teen. Wish someone would make all the parts gain and sell a kit!

Launching rockets (or missiles in my case) is so easy a chimp could do it. Read a step, do a step, eat a banana.

Sent from my iPad Air using Rocketry Forum.

Rocketteer · Jan 14, 2023

Anyone ever find a source for the body tubes?

Ez2cDave · Jan 14, 2023

robnee said:
I'm doing the drawings in Open SCAD so they are completely parametric. I can just type in the sizes of the tubes and rerender the parts. I think people have made good cases for having the parts both to scale and semi-scale. I'll post both sets of parts.

Now, what I really need is for the clever builders here to suggest tubes that are a close fit to the odd original tubes for the semi-scale version. Here's what I have come up with:

SBT-123BE 1.228" Substitute T52H at 1.210"
SBT-127GC 1.274" Substitute BT-55 coupler stock at 1.280"
SBT-139BJ 1.389". Substitute BT-55 at 1.325" maybe with an extra tube layer to build it up to size?

The SBT-123BE which sits atop an ever-so-slight transition from the section of SBT-127GC. Due to the transition you can't really cheat and use the same tube as the substitute for the SBT-127GC here. It just wouldn't look right. The heavy wall T52H is as close as I can find. The The BT-55 coupler stock means more work filling and finishing too. That could be eased by just using BT55 which is a little less scale but easier to finish.

Anyone else have any other ideas for readily available substitutes?

Another way to go is to print the entire top 11" or so avoiding finding the substitutes for SBT-123BE and SBT-139BJ. It might be a little heavy though but the original kit does call for nose weight so might not be a bad thing.

I need to get to work and provide some comparison drawings...

Rob

Scout data . . . John Pursley made up this set of CORRECT markings for the LTV SCOUT for me, back in 2015 ( first file ).

Note that ALL other decal sets have INCORRECT lettering ( second file - contains the incorrect lettering, for comparison ).

Dave F.

INCORRECT LETTERING . . .

CORRECT LETTERING . . .

Rocketteer · Jan 15, 2023

I'm thinking it could be possible to resize the 3-D parts to fit modern tubes, maybe one would need to make a 3-D printed adapter that prints as a part of the original that allows modern tubes to be attached.

Brent · Jan 15, 2023

Rocketteer said:
I'm thinking it could be possible to resize the 3-D parts to fit modern tubes, maybe one would need to make a 3-D printed adapter that prints as a part of the original that allows modern tubes to be attached.

It already has been done. Look at the Thingiverse link above

Rocketteer · Jan 15, 2023

Brent said:
It already has been done. Look at the Thingiverse link above

I saw that but I just assumed it was for the original size tubes.

LTV Scout Plastic Parts

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