Mosquito madness- staged, clusters, and more.

I got 4 Mega mosquitos from the estes sale, mostly to try different modifications. The first one will be a booster to add to any normal mega mosquito:

I'm a bit worried about velocity off the launch rod, RS is saying 41 ft/s. I'm also not sure If this will be allowed to fly off the HP pads which is key to reaching safe velocity. I'm also not sure if it will stage properly and if the booster will tumble. I borrowed Daddyisabar's HopeSim and it says it will work though. Anyone have ideas on how I might be able to add a chute to this that would unfold at staging?

The other project may be even more likely to have motor ignition problems:

cool!, can you stuff the chute/streamer inbetween the bt & mm, then a small piece of string tied to booster, but taped to sustainer....if that makes sense.

Thats a great idea to get the chute out, although I need to find a way to keep the chute out of the way of the burnout. Maybe one of the chute pouches on big LOC kits scaled down?

Got the staged mosquito mostly done, just have to wait for some parts:

Also got most of the cluster mosquito built. No rear CR, the motor mounts act as supports. Not sure what I'll fly in it, once I get some 24/40 casings I'll probably try a central F12J with B or C motors on the 18's. a C11+ 3 C6s should also fly really well, and liftoff very fast.



This can also theoretically fly on just 3 18mm motors (500 feet simmed with 3 C6's) or a single 24mm.

For people building mega mosquitos, consider using CA and accelerator to attach the fins and then titebond for fillets. the CA prevents having to use rubber bands or clamps to hold the fins since it sets very fast with accelerator.

And I thought I would overdo things because I want to build mine to take a 3 grain CTI case to fly it on a 73F30. 7 second delay would be JUUUST after apogee at just shy of 2000 ft.
Then I had an absolutely insane thought of a 29mm mount and a 143G33..... but I'd probably have stability issues at that point.

This thing will eventually fly 3 D21s and maybe a F75VMAX. You probably don't need to worry about stability, putting a ton of weight where the motor is on this actually doesn't affect stability much because of the swept fins.

Madcow has a kit, the Mozzie, which is very similar in size, but built ground up with plywood fins and is designed for 29's.

Yeah, but I HAVE the Estes kit (Wish I bought more now when they were on sale, maybe next time).

So, are you trying to talk me INTO or OUT OF putting the 29 in my current build

-Hans

You can adapt down from 29 ;-)

I'm not sure. I think 24/40 RMS is enough for a stockish mosquito and ripping the fins off can actually become a concern with 29, but you could fly CTI or aerotech low impulse F motors without too much trouble I think. I still have 2 left unbuilt from the sale, maybe I'll put a 29 in one. The 29 would be pretty awesome if it worked. If you decide to use a 29, you probably want to replace some components (centering rings at minimum) with plywood for strength and maybe use stronger glue than normal wood glue. The CA worked well for additional support and main fins on these builds.

Open rocket gives it a thumbs up for stability, but not as much margin as I'd like to see. With an apogee of 2,970ft, 9g max acceleration, peaking at @380 mph.
That's just a quick and dirty plot though, without an altimeter in the nose.

I'd definitely beef a few things up for sure. That's the nice thing about the CTI mellows, they're a very long burn G with a low average impulse. It's a 143G33.
I love being back in this hobby in the modern era.

Hmmmmmmm.....

What's the stability margin?

Trying to rip the wings off it ,are ya(?)
I ve heard of killer bees,now we have killer sqeekters to worry about.

0.89 calibers. So not enough for me to be comfortable proceeding just yet. I need to plan a bit more to see if I can improve on that. Sim vs reality makes me worried, as anything done to strengthen the fins and motor mount will shift the CG aft. But lots of tricks left to play to still make it possible.

How does your stability look with the clusters so far?

I really wouldn't worry about .9 calipers. The stock one is also around 1 if I recall. My cluster one is around .8something I think. with a more convention rocket i'd worry, but the long fins on these things give it a ton of stability even with small margins. I have a Madcow Cricket (a 4 inch midpower/highpower upscale of the 220 swift, which is a mosquito with different styling, not flown yet but simmed) that is around .7 in every sim and is supposed to be very stable even at just .7 calibers. It's a combination of the long fins and the base drag off the rocket that keep it safe.

Got the booster finished except for paint. It tumbles from a 40 foot drop with no issues so I'm going to risk flying it with no recovery on the booster. The fins have lots reinforcement. First flight will be at moffet next weekend.

Very cool! Mine's still in the box, been working on an av-bay for my QCC Explorer the past few days and fixing/flying my daughters Flutter-By.
It's a few spots deep in the queue soon, but I did order a chute for it already. Love the Top Flight X-types.

-Hans

I bit the bullet last weekend, and bought a three pack of E9-6 motors for the Mega Mosquito and burned two of them, enjoying a nice high launch. The second one, the chute didn't open completely, and eventually did open enough to protect it from damage, landing in a cut grass farm field. WHEW! So I didn't burn the last one, but have saved it.

On the other hand, I also bought a package of A10-3T for a mini-fat Boy rocket that I threw together the weekend before... and EVERY ONE OF THE MOTORS MALEFUNCTIONED! That is, we had a CATO on the pad as the entire motor went off at once... blowing the engine out of the end, as well as the nosecone ejection charge.... and then multiple times, the dog barf was too heavy, too packed, or burned through, without blowing the nose cone out. Finally getting one good launch, the rocket went up, but then dropped back down on the vendor's tend, glanced off and hit his TRUCK!

So, I was inducted in the very small club of those whose rocket have hit the vendor's vehicle, and we fond the fin dented severely from the impact (Truck was fine!).

But the vendor wanted to check out why the rocket wasn't working right, and opened another package of A10-3T and used those to confirm the dog barf was right.... and then concluded that there was something wrong with that first package. He urged me to write to Estes and report the serial number, which I have done now. I am awaiting a response from them...

One reason to try a 29mm mount might be to fly Estes BP F15's in it. There's a long-burning, low-impulse motor that might be great in a rocket of this design.

Sorry to hear about the a10-3ts, have flown and seen hundreds fly with no issues. Thirsty, while I'm going to build a 29mm one, I'm not sure yet if I'll put a motor block in it because I might try to fly bigger motors in it. (G33, H54) I'm not sure if there is room though, in which case I'll definitely add a block so I can fly the E16 and F15.

SCrocketfan said:

Thirsty, while I'm going to build a 29mm one, I'm not sure yet if I'll put a motor block in it because I might try to fly bigger motors in it. (G33, H54) I'm not sure if there is room though, in which case I'll definitely add a block so I can fly the E16 and F15.

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Leaving the block out makes sense. And it doesn't completely close off your option for the Estes motors. You can always still fly the Estes motors if you want by glueing on a thrust ring or making one with tape.

Kirk G said:

Wait. You're suggesting retrofiting a cheap little LPR rocket designed for mini-T sized motors to accommodate an F-level motor in it? (I admit, I don't know what the physical dimensions of an F-type motor are, but judging from how 1/2A's are mini-T's, and A's, B's & C's are all larger, and then my Mega Mosquito takes even larger D's and E's.... I can only imagine what an F would look like!)

Thirsty, are you jerking my chain here?

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I think he is talking about the mega mosquito here, not the regular one.

Kirk G said:

Wait. You're suggesting retrofiting a cheap little LPR rocket designed for mini-T sized motors to accommodate an F-level motor in it? (I admit, I don't know what the physical dimensions of an F-type motor are, but judging from how 1/2A's are mini-T's, and A's, B's & C's are all larger, and then my Mega Mosquito takes even larger D's and E's.... I can only imagine what an F would look like!)

Thirsty, are you jerking my chain here?

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The thread is about modifications to Mega Mosquitos, and that is what I was referring to. I think a long-burning motor like the F15 that burns for 4 seconds would be great in a slow and stable rocket like a Mega Mosquito.

Kirk G said:

Oh, sorry, Thirsty. I lost track. (I was only kidding you, anyway... you know that...

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No worries, my friend. In order to fit a 29mm motor inside a 13mm tube, it has to be something like a Tardis or Hermione Granger's purse --- bigger on the inside than the outside.

Oh, don't worry. I do think I'll be doing my mosquito for 29mm after all. Going to be Fun!

-Hans

Flew the two stage mosquito yesterday for the first time (the sustainer mosquito has flown 3 times before). I launched from the LUNAR mid power pads for safety and to be able to use a 6 ft launch rod. It banked into the wind a bit, but it staged perfectly and both stages recovered safely. The booster did go stable on descent but only the coupler was damaged, it could have flown again. I might need to add a streamer or chute to the booster and use CRC's method of deployment (string that pulls open the chute on staging), which seems like it should work well.

This was a fun flight to see. You did a good job on this one, and it flew really well. I was a bit concerned that the big fins and concrete landing surface might take more of a toll on the booster, but it looked to me like you could have flown it again, no problem.

Both stages actually landed in the grass between the runway and taxiway. I think if it had landed on concrete it would have probably broken.

I don't recall, did you see my Maxi Alpha 3 crash? I think you did, or at least the aftermath. The parachute did not pull all the way out, and it smashed the body tube at the top end and buckled the lower half of the body tube below the centering ring that secures the top of the stuffer tube. Instead of repairing it and trying to fly it again as a whole rocket. I'm thinking about cutting away most of the top and making it into a booster. I'd like a 2-stage MA3, and the lower part that could probably be adapted as a booster is really all that is left of this poor rocket --- my first real loss after coming back to the hobby as a BAR almost 2 years ago. That rocket was getting really tired...

I saw both the crash and the aftermath, sorry about the crash. I didn't realize the tube had also broken past the CR. You could definitely convert it to a booster, although I don't think you can use a BT80 coupler to stage. If you modified the upper stage Maxi Alpha to fit a BT80 coupler it could work easily, and you could probably use it as a booster for other BT80 rockets.

I'd be slightly worried about booster motor options. Until the new FSI black powder motors are released, the only booster motors that would have enough power would be E12-0 and D12-0. The D12-0 was marginal on the Mega Mosquito and I think the MA3 is heavier. You could add 18mm booster pods to the booster for initial thrust on launch, or upgrade to a 29mm mount and use F15-0 and E16-0 motors.

Wow, that looks really...odd... to have two sets of such large fins so...next to each other!
Glad that you got it to fly.

I'm very intrigued by the notion of how to attach a streamer to a bottom stage booster. I didn't think this was possible... however, I really want to try this on my Hyper-Bat and any other two stage that I may come up with. How do you do it?