Klima Motors

Space Oddity · Aug 27, 2014

I read an article recently on the UK Rocketry Associations (UKRA) website stating that Klima motors are illegal in the UK as a result of failure to achieve HSE approval and certification. The article went into a lengthy explanation of why Klima was considered illegal.

The article advised anyone in possession of motors (in the UK) to drop them in a bucket of water for 24 hours before disposing of them. I can imagine that happening.
Advice then continued, requesting any reader to report UK vendors of the motors, to the UKRA.

This original statement on the UKRA website was rescinded by UKRA on the 13th of August. Replaced by a simple statement ..... "German Klima rocket motors are LEGAL in the UK". This was followed by absolutely no explanation whatsoever!

I then read an interesting statement (see below) on the Model Rocket Shop website (a Klima vendor in the UK).
I'll leave you to judge and comment. My initial reaction is to what prompted the assured statement by UKRA in the first place. I'm learning more about this hobby and those that control it, everyday.

SO.

"Excerpts from a letter sent to UKRA on 21 August 2014

......Your recent United Kingdom Rocketry Association (UKRA) web site posting regarding Klima composite model rocket motors and igniters (is) in error.

The UKRA has no authority or expertise to determine the legality of model rocket motors in the UK. This decision lies completely with the UK Health and Safety Executive (HSE).

The UK and Germany are signatories of the European Agreement concerning the International Carriage of Dangerous Goods by Road (ADR). The German Federal Institute for Materials Research and Testing (BAM) is a Competent Authority for German health and safety matters.

Raketenmodellbau Klima GmbH (Klima) has been issued with a certificate by BAM providing for CE certification and classification of Klima composite motors as 1.4S, UN0432 and their igniters as UN0454 as well as approval of their packaging.

As the HSE web site explains, HSE does NOT require an application to classify or authorise the import, storage, sale or transport of any product that meets the requirements stated above. Klima motors and igniters are therefore legal in the UK without additional input from HSE.

UKRA's apparent reliance on the LOCEF data base as dispositive for UK legality is in error. This was discussed on 18 August 2014 with an inspector who has responsibility for explosives at the HSE in Bootle.

For a number of years the HSE has accepted the documentation of a competent authority from country that is a signatory to the ADR to determine the legality to import, store, sell and transport those products in the UK.

The references necessary to access the compliance of Klima motors and igniters in the BAM database are on the reverse side of every pack of motors and igniters.

Model rocket flights made by BMFA club members (including those whose membership is through UKRA) with Klima motors or igniters are therefore covered under the BMFA insurance policy when all other safety code rules are followed.

It is regrettable that UKRA did not seek clarification of the legal status of Klima composite motors and igniters before making incorrect and damaging public pronouncements. Instead of embracing new and exciting possibilities for UK and European rocketeers UKRA have again obstructed these advances and damaged the model rocket hobby in the UK and Europe." .......

Leo · Aug 27, 2014

Here the original post from the UKRA:

German Klima Rocket Motors Illegal in the UK
Submitted by ukra on Wed, 13/08/2014 - 20:41.
It has been brought to the attention of the UKRA Council that it is currently possible to obtain German manufactured solid propellant motors in the UK. These motors are produced by a company called Klima and utilise composite propellant (Potassium Perchlorate based), they look similar to Estes motors but are finished in a distinctive red colour and sold in packs of 6. They are available in sizes A-class to D-class.

THESE MOTORS ARE NOT LEGAL IN THE UK.

This is despite the motors being CE marked and certified by the German equivalent to the HSE (BAM). There is no agreement between BAM and the HSE to co-certify explosives and thus they are not legal in the UK. Klima motors, at present, do not appear on LOCEF - The Web Database of Classified Explosives and Fireworks in the UK and therefore must not be used in the UK.

Please note BMFA insurance is conditional on compliance with UK legislation and therefore:

ANYONE FLYING ROCKETS CONTAINING KLIMA MOTORS IN THE UK WILL NOT BE COVERED UNDER BMFA INSURANCE.

UKRA recommends that if you see these motors on sale anywhere in the UK, do not purchase them, instead please notify UKRA. If you have already purchased Klima motors, it is recommended that they be disposed of by soaking the motors in a volume of water greater than 1 litre per 21.25 grams of propellant mass, for 24 hours. This treatment should be followed by washing the resultant solution away in a large volume of running water and disposing of the soaked cases in the normal waste.

The UKRA Council appreciates that the illegality of these motors, and the need to dispose of them safely, may cause some financial loss, and inconvenience to some UKRA Members. However, we have a duty of care in our advisory role in UK model and high power rocketry, and therefore feel it very necessary to make this statement.

UKRA Council

Astroscot · Aug 28, 2014

Space Oddity said:
I read an article recently on the UK Rocketry Associations (UKRA) website stating that Klima motors are illegal in the UK as a result of failure to achieve HSE approval and certification. The article went into a lengthy explanation of why Klima was considered illegal.

The article advised anyone in possession of motors (in the UK) to drop them in a bucket of water for 24 hours before disposing of them. I can imagine that happening.
Advice then continued, requesting any reader to report UK vendors of the motors, to the UKRA.

This original statement on the UKRA website was rescinded by UKRA on the 13th of August. Replaced by a simple statement ..... "German Klima rocket motors are LEGAL in the UK". This was followed by absolutely no explanation whatsoever!

I then read an interesting statement (see below) on the Model Rocket Shop website (a Klima vendor in the UK).
I'll leave you to judge and comment. My initial reaction is to what prompted the assured statement by UKRA in the first place. I'm learning more about this hobby and those that control it, everyday.

SO.

"Excerpts from a letter sent to UKRA on 21 August 2014

......Your recent United Kingdom Rocketry Association (UKRA) web site posting regarding Klima composite model rocket motors and igniters (is) in error.

The UKRA has no authority or expertise to determine the legality of model rocket motors in the UK. This decision lies completely with the UK Health and Safety Executive (HSE).

The UK and Germany are signatories of the European Agreement concerning the International Carriage of Dangerous Goods by Road (ADR). The German Federal Institute for Materials Research and Testing (BAM) is a Competent Authority for German health and safety matters.

Raketenmodellbau Klima GmbH (Klima) has been issued with a certificate by BAM providing for CE certification and classification of Klima composite motors as 1.4S, UN0432 and their igniters as UN0454 as well as approval of their packaging.

As the HSE web site explains, HSE does NOT require an application to classify or authorise the import, storage, sale or transport of any product that meets the requirements stated above. Klima motors and igniters are therefore legal in the UK without additional input from HSE.

UKRA's apparent reliance on the LOCEF data base as dispositive for UK legality is in error. This was discussed on 18 August 2014 with an inspector who has responsibility for explosives at the HSE in Bootle.

For a number of years the HSE has accepted the documentation of a competent authority from country that is a signatory to the ADR to determine the legality to import, store, sell and transport those products in the UK.

The references necessary to access the compliance of Klima motors and igniters in the BAM database are on the reverse side of every pack of motors and igniters.

Model rocket flights made by BMFA club members (including those whose membership is through UKRA) with Klima motors or igniters are therefore covered under the BMFA insurance policy when all other safety code rules are followed.

It is regrettable that UKRA did not seek clarification of the legal status of Klima composite motors and igniters before making incorrect and damaging public pronouncements. Instead of embracing new and exciting possibilities for UK and European rocketeers UKRA have again obstructed these advances and damaged the model rocket hobby in the UK and Europe." .......

Dear Space Oddity.

There is in fact a full explanation of the change of knowledge and therefore advice to UKRA Members, by the UKRA Council, in the post on the UKRA website that you refer to, at https://www.ukra.org.uk/node/2811 Due to some recent upgrade and maintenance work on the UKRA website there was a glitch that prevented you seeing the whole of the amended statement by UKRA Council on the matter of Klima motors. This glitch has now been sorted out, and therefore the full revised statement is available at the above link. On behalf of the UKRA Council I apologise for temporary lack of availability of our full amended statement in the Klima motors matter.

With regard to your statement that "I'm learning more about this hobby and those that control it, everyday", first I should point out the UKRA does not seek to "control" model, high power, and amateur rocketry in the UK. Rather we are the advisory and enabling body for these activities in the UK. The control of these activities lies in the various statutory laws and regulations that relate to rocketry in the UK, and which are advised, policed, and where necessary enforced by UK Government executive agencies and bodies, such as for example, the Health & Safety Executive (HSE) Explosives Inspectorate in the matter of rocket motors and propellants, and the Civil Aviation Authority (CAA) in the matter of Air Navigation Orders covering rocket flying in controlled and uncontrolled airspace. In this case a misunderstanding arose in the matter of linkages between UK and European Union regulations, recently changed, in the matter of regulation of model and high power rocket motors in the UK. None of that is under the control of UKRA, rather we have to maintain a watching brief on these matters in the interests of our members. Although the UK is a member state of the European Union, there are in many matters differences in how EU laws and regulations are applied in the UK, where the Government has many opt out options in how EU laws and regulations are actually applied in the UK. This has affected, largely to our benefit, the enabling environment for model, high power, and amateur rocketry in the UK. However, this can make understanding of new situations, such as the one in case here, difficult of interpretation. The HSE Explosives Inspectorate does not pro-actively inform UKRA Council of changes in regulation and law that have a bearing on rocketry in the UK. We have to follow and find these things out for ourselves. That in turn can lead, as it did in this case, to misunderstandings on our part.

As the record clearly shows, the minute that the UKRA Council was able to verify, through communication with the HSE Explosives Inspectorate, that our original statement on the legality of Klima motors in the UK was in error, we immediately posted a retraction with our fully explained amended post on the UKRA website Home page, at the above link. In the better and correct understanding of this matter it is good news that the Klima composite A to D class motors are in fact legal to purchase and use in the UK. Also it seems that this may also mean that some further high power motors will now be legal in the UK, but this is yet to be fully ascertained.

I do thank you for taking an active interest in this matter. I hope that what I have stated here in explanation is helpful to your fuller understanding of what was involved here.

Yours sincerely,

John Bonsor,
UKRA Secretary,
UKRA Member No. 1023.

Space Oddity · Aug 29, 2014

Dear Mr. Bonsor,

Thank you very much for your clear and detailed reply.
I understand your distinction between control and "advisory".

As a relative newcomer to this hobby/sport I have been frustrated by what in comparison with USA, is quite a barren interest within the UK. With limited retail outlets, high import prices, and (with respect to American readers of this post), a dominance of US products, like you I welcome new European products into the UK. Recognising the principle of supply and demand I can appreciate why some US products are not available from UK retail outlets.

On a slightly different note and given the ingenuity and inventiveness of UK technology, maybe the promotion of rocketry in the UK should be directed at our youth and not those like me who remain inspired by the sixties and seventies Mercury, Gemini, and Apollo images. As evidence for my perception of UK rocketry, just refer to UK club web sites and forums that place their last "News Reports" from 2012 and their last posts from July this year.
I think there is a dormant market in the UK for rocketry products. As manufacturing and technology becomes part of government manifesto once again, maybe it the time to promote the science and with it, the hobby and sport.
That I believe is not only in the charge of individuals but mainly with associations such as UKRA and local flying clubs. A massive task I know but one that will I'm sure provide fun and education for a new generation that for whom, Apollo is a just a note in history.

Though in a small way, it is why I welcome the introduction of European products. It is why I introduced this post.
If this hobby/sport is considered important as an educational tool in the UK then maybe a new approach of marketing and promotion is needed?

Thank you once again for your informative reply.

Yours sincerely,

SO.

Pyropetepete · Aug 30, 2014

It's not the 1st time UKRA has jumped to conclusions. UKRA is a good reason to why the UK scene has died so much.

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Klima Motors

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