Shuttle Mounting on 747
- Thread starter ScottJ
- Start date
Help Support The Rocketry Forum:
blackbrandt
That Darn College Student
- Joined
- Mar 18, 2012
- Messages
- 9,281
- Reaction score
- 60
Wow.
luke strawwalker
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Jan 18, 2009
- Messages
- 9,147
- Reaction score
- 40
Here's some pics from Space Center Houston, the visitor center for the Johnson Space Center in Houston, that I took a couple weeks ago... These are pictures of the work they're doing on the Shuttle Carrier Aircraft display that will be the centerpiece out front of the SCH building...
The orbiter is a full-scale model built for the Kennedy Space Center visitor center in Florida. Since they were getting the Discovery orbiter upon her retirement (which has since been mothballed and moved to permanent display in the KSC Visitor Center), this model was sent to Houston as a "consolation prize" for Houston not getting an orbiter of its own for display. The model was barged in about a year or two ago, and moved across the street from the barge slip to the SCH grounds. It was displayed as it was in Florida, sitting on its wheels as it would appear on the runway at "wheels stop" after a mission.
After the retirement of the Shuttle Carrier Aircraft (SCA's), Houston got one of the SCA's for its display. The decision was then taken to display the faux orbiter atop the SCA in "transport mode" as the shuttles were hauled from California to Florida. The SCA was flown into Ellington Field a few miles from JSC/SCH, and then cut into sections and transported in pieces to SCH and reassembled on-site in the orbiter model's "display spot". The orbiter model itself had been moved to the far end of the parking lot behind a fence for modification to be displayed on top of the SCA. Since the orbiter model was designed for display with the "wheels down", it required modification to remove the landing gear wheels and install mounting points equivalent to those on a real orbiter used to attach it to the External Tank, since these same mounts are used to attach the orbiter to an SCA. The model is having these mounts installed so it can be mounted atop the SCA, which has been brought in and largely reassembled (less engines so far) over by the SCH main building. The next step is to use cranes to lift the orbiter model atop the SCA and permanently mount it there. This is scheduled for later this year. Then, once the display is completed, eventually there will be an access tower built alongside the SCA/orbiter display to access the large side doors of the orbiter model, which was designed for access by visitors through a large doorway in its right-hand side, unlike the real orbiters
of course. I don't know if there will be access allowed into the SCA itself or not.
It's interesting, but like virtually ALL the shuttle displays, rather nonsensical and very poorly thought out. The only shuttle display that makes much sense is the display of Discovery, as the most flown orbiter, in the Udvar-Hazy center of the Smithsonian. The display of Enterprise, sitting out rotting in the salt air of an aircraft carrier museum deck in New York, which has already been damaged by a hurricane, is shameful and stupid. Atlantis is sitting in a beautiful new center addition in Florida at KSC, but tilted up on its side with the payload bay doors open as if "flying in space". Endeavor has been moved to California and is awaiting mounting to a mockup of the External Tank and faux shuttle boosters as if "ready for launch". Houston got no orbiter despite every shuttle flight being controlled from "tower clear" to "wheel stop" from Houston, as well as all the astronaut training and the majority of the manned space program being run from Houston... it got KSC's orbiter model as a consolation prize and an SCA thrown in rather than scrapping it outright.
IMHO, the displays would have made MUCH better historical sense had they followed the shuttle program flows in the displays themselves. Discovery, as the most-flown surviving orbiter, should be in the Smithsonian, no doubt there. Having Enterprise in New York rotting on an aircraft carrier, only a couple hours by train from the Smithsonian in DC, just defies all logic and is patently stupid IMHO... Enterprise should have gone to California, mounted atop the SCA, for a display there-- after all, the shuttles were built at the Rockwell North American plants there in Downey, CA, and transported by air via SCA to Florida for launching, as well as all the shuttles that landed at Edwards AFB during the early shuttle program before the Florida landing site was ready. Also, the Approach and Landing Test Program was conducted at Edwards during the 70's, where the SCA carried Enterprise aloft and then released it to glide down to a landing on the runways at Edwards prior to the first shuttle launch in 1981. It makes perfect sense for the California display to be atop an SCA, and Enterprise displayed there atop it in the ALT test program configuration. Florida, from which every shuttle launched, should have gotten an orbiter to be displayed on a test External Tank and empty booster casings (or faux boosters) in "launch configuration"... this would have made MUCH more sense than having such a display in earthquake prone California, from which not a single shuttle was ever launched... despite billions being spent on the SLC-6 shuttle pad at Vandenberg AFB for military polar-orbit shuttle missions which never occurred. That would leave a single orbiter for display in Houston, home of Mission Control and the Manned Spaceflight Center, most logically displayed as if "flying in space", which is precisely where most of the Johnson Space Center's training, operations, and contribution to the space program lay... KSC's "model" could still have gone to rot on an aircraft carrier in New York...
Of course, since it's a government operation, for it to make any sense is expecting too much...
Later! OL JR
The orbiter is a full-scale model built for the Kennedy Space Center visitor center in Florida. Since they were getting the Discovery orbiter upon her retirement (which has since been mothballed and moved to permanent display in the KSC Visitor Center), this model was sent to Houston as a "consolation prize" for Houston not getting an orbiter of its own for display. The model was barged in about a year or two ago, and moved across the street from the barge slip to the SCH grounds. It was displayed as it was in Florida, sitting on its wheels as it would appear on the runway at "wheels stop" after a mission.
After the retirement of the Shuttle Carrier Aircraft (SCA's), Houston got one of the SCA's for its display. The decision was then taken to display the faux orbiter atop the SCA in "transport mode" as the shuttles were hauled from California to Florida. The SCA was flown into Ellington Field a few miles from JSC/SCH, and then cut into sections and transported in pieces to SCH and reassembled on-site in the orbiter model's "display spot". The orbiter model itself had been moved to the far end of the parking lot behind a fence for modification to be displayed on top of the SCA. Since the orbiter model was designed for display with the "wheels down", it required modification to remove the landing gear wheels and install mounting points equivalent to those on a real orbiter used to attach it to the External Tank, since these same mounts are used to attach the orbiter to an SCA. The model is having these mounts installed so it can be mounted atop the SCA, which has been brought in and largely reassembled (less engines so far) over by the SCH main building. The next step is to use cranes to lift the orbiter model atop the SCA and permanently mount it there. This is scheduled for later this year. Then, once the display is completed, eventually there will be an access tower built alongside the SCA/orbiter display to access the large side doors of the orbiter model, which was designed for access by visitors through a large doorway in its right-hand side, unlike the real orbiters
of course. I don't know if there will be access allowed into the SCA itself or not.
It's interesting, but like virtually ALL the shuttle displays, rather nonsensical and very poorly thought out. The only shuttle display that makes much sense is the display of Discovery, as the most flown orbiter, in the Udvar-Hazy center of the Smithsonian. The display of Enterprise, sitting out rotting in the salt air of an aircraft carrier museum deck in New York, which has already been damaged by a hurricane, is shameful and stupid. Atlantis is sitting in a beautiful new center addition in Florida at KSC, but tilted up on its side with the payload bay doors open as if "flying in space". Endeavor has been moved to California and is awaiting mounting to a mockup of the External Tank and faux shuttle boosters as if "ready for launch". Houston got no orbiter despite every shuttle flight being controlled from "tower clear" to "wheel stop" from Houston, as well as all the astronaut training and the majority of the manned space program being run from Houston... it got KSC's orbiter model as a consolation prize and an SCA thrown in rather than scrapping it outright.
IMHO, the displays would have made MUCH better historical sense had they followed the shuttle program flows in the displays themselves. Discovery, as the most-flown surviving orbiter, should be in the Smithsonian, no doubt there. Having Enterprise in New York rotting on an aircraft carrier, only a couple hours by train from the Smithsonian in DC, just defies all logic and is patently stupid IMHO... Enterprise should have gone to California, mounted atop the SCA, for a display there-- after all, the shuttles were built at the Rockwell North American plants there in Downey, CA, and transported by air via SCA to Florida for launching, as well as all the shuttles that landed at Edwards AFB during the early shuttle program before the Florida landing site was ready. Also, the Approach and Landing Test Program was conducted at Edwards during the 70's, where the SCA carried Enterprise aloft and then released it to glide down to a landing on the runways at Edwards prior to the first shuttle launch in 1981. It makes perfect sense for the California display to be atop an SCA, and Enterprise displayed there atop it in the ALT test program configuration. Florida, from which every shuttle launched, should have gotten an orbiter to be displayed on a test External Tank and empty booster casings (or faux boosters) in "launch configuration"... this would have made MUCH more sense than having such a display in earthquake prone California, from which not a single shuttle was ever launched... despite billions being spent on the SLC-6 shuttle pad at Vandenberg AFB for military polar-orbit shuttle missions which never occurred. That would leave a single orbiter for display in Houston, home of Mission Control and the Manned Spaceflight Center, most logically displayed as if "flying in space", which is precisely where most of the Johnson Space Center's training, operations, and contribution to the space program lay... KSC's "model" could still have gone to rot on an aircraft carrier in New York...
Of course, since it's a government operation, for it to make any sense is expecting too much...
Later! OL JR
Last edited:
luke strawwalker
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Jan 18, 2009
- Messages
- 9,147
- Reaction score
- 40
And one more... OL JR
- Joined
- Jan 18, 2009
- Messages
- 5,937
- Reaction score
- 579
Did anyone point out that they misspelled "Explorer" when they repainted the orbiter?
Seriously, though, it's nice to see it getting a good new home and the upgrades they've made to it are impressive. A common complaint when it was at KSC was that you weren't able to go inside it.
-- Roger
- Joined
- Jun 6, 2011
- Messages
- 7,562
- Reaction score
- 1,159
You know you're old when stuff you worked on is in the Smithsonian...
PhlAsh
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- May 9, 2011
- Messages
- 1,202
- Reaction score
- 239
I'm not sure where or when I got this ppt, but I think it's the preparation for what was ultimately Columbia's last safe trip to the Cape
Columbia Departure
Columbia Departure
luke strawwalker
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Jan 18, 2009
- Messages
- 9,147
- Reaction score
- 40
Did anyone point out that they misspelled "Explorer" when they repainted the orbiter?
Seriously, though, it's nice to see it getting a good new home and the upgrades they've made to it are impressive. A common complaint when it was at KSC was that you weren't able to go inside it.
-- Roger
I noticed that... not sure when that changed... probably about the time they had to repaint it after some bone-heads crawled up on it and tagged it with some racist sh!t... Oh well, we're not the only area with idiots I guess... someone took a shot at the Saturn V in Huntsville...
Now all we need is "Freedom" to go along with it... strap some big faux mini-SRB's up on the top, give it some turned up wingtips, and paint it silver... Then you could send Bruce Willis and some misfits and the @$$clown from "Pearl Harbor" to blow up an asteroid the size of Texas... LOL
Nah, that hack Michael Bay would blow it up before it ever left the parking lot...
Later! OL JR
luke strawwalker
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Jan 18, 2009
- Messages
- 9,147
- Reaction score
- 40
I let Keira miss school and we drove down to Ellington Field and watched the flyover of Endeavor on the SCA on its last trip out from Florida... they flew around for about 15-20 minutes all over Houston and over NASA and Ellington before coming in for a landing... escorted by a pair of Texas Air National Guard F-16 Falcons... (man those things look TINY in comparison!) It was a real hoot... never saw one on the SCA in flight before (and never will again). Told Keira she was witnessing history first-hand, and to remember it... she could tell her kids some day she saw the last time a space shuttle was flying, even if only on a transport... It flew out to California the next day.
Got the pics if anybody's interested... I posted them on here when it happened...
Keira's teacher was jealous... she said she wished she could have missed school to see it... LOL
Later! OL JR
- Joined
- Aug 27, 2011
- Messages
- 11,587
- Reaction score
- 6,207
I saw the One of the shuttles piggybacked on a flyover at USAFA, I am guessing around 1983 or 1984. Wish now I had taken the time to watch one actually lift off.
Glad you were smart enough to make sure your daughter saw some living history.
Glad you were smart enough to make sure your daughter saw some living history.
Sooner Boomer
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Mar 21, 2011
- Messages
- 5,830
- Reaction score
- 4,673
One of my favorite pics. Someone had a sense of humor...
- Joined
- Jan 11, 2013
- Messages
- 6,448
- Reaction score
- 953
Man is this cool...
I know you're not supposed to have regrets,,,
but I seriously regret not going to see the Shuttle launch....
In my defense,, if you went to the expense and time to go,,
it wasn't a guarantee,, it could be scrubbed....
Did you guy's notice the model in Houston on the 747's back
was not fitted with a rear cowl,, the shuttles entire rear end had a cowl over it to reduce drag when it was on the back of a 747....
Also,, did you notice the angle of attack of the Shuttles wings when it's mounted on the back of a 747,,,
the angle is set so that when the 747 is flying level the shuttles wings create the most lift..
So in flight the 747 is pushing the shuttle more then carrying it....
There are 3 things in this world that really astound me that mankind figured out
the 10 bazillion mathematical,, scientific,,, and logistical problems to make them work in the era that they were made........
The Space Shuttle
The Saturn V
The SR 71
Teddy
I know you're not supposed to have regrets,,,
but I seriously regret not going to see the Shuttle launch....
In my defense,, if you went to the expense and time to go,,
it wasn't a guarantee,, it could be scrubbed....
Did you guy's notice the model in Houston on the 747's back
was not fitted with a rear cowl,, the shuttles entire rear end had a cowl over it to reduce drag when it was on the back of a 747....
Also,, did you notice the angle of attack of the Shuttles wings when it's mounted on the back of a 747,,,
the angle is set so that when the 747 is flying level the shuttles wings create the most lift..
So in flight the 747 is pushing the shuttle more then carrying it....
There are 3 things in this world that really astound me that mankind figured out
the 10 bazillion mathematical,, scientific,,, and logistical problems to make them work in the era that they were made........
The Space Shuttle
The Saturn V
The SR 71
Teddy
I was lucky enough to see STS-7 launch (the one with Sally Ride). I was 11 at the time. My dad insisted we arrive around 2:30am to get a good spot for the 7:30am launch. No one else showed up until 5:30. The clouds were thick, dark and low. This meant that when the shuttle leaped off the pad it was only visible for a few seconds before disappearing into the clouds. I was amazed at how bright it was even from several miles away. I said that was cool and turned toward the car. Wait, my dad said. What for? Just wait.
B O O O O O M!
The shockwave was truly awesome. It felt as though my internal organs were vibrating.
I was stationed in Orlando in 82. A couple of use piled into my car one morning to and drove out to see a launch, not sure which, but it was scrubbed due to weather. I wish I had bought a t-shirt/bumper sticker/button or something so I had a reference to remember it better.
- Joined
- Jan 18, 2009
- Messages
- 5,937
- Reaction score
- 579
I've told the following story about the shuttle and SCA in TRF before, but I have a little to add to it now.
Back in 1979 I was 17 years old. My father was in the Air Force and worked as the assistant to the Chief of Maintenance at Eglin AFB. When Columbia made its first trip atop the 747 to KSC, it stopped at Eglin. My dad arranged for my brother and I to see it up close.
One of the pilots escorted us into the 747 where we saw the cockpit then climbed up a ladder to get a peek at the bottom of the orbiter just a few feet away. It was potmarked by all the missing tiles which were such a concern back then. Later, we watched the 747 take off to head to KSC.
The new stuff is that I did some research on the Internet and found some old newspaper articles about the stopover at Eglin. I learned that Deke Slayton was one of the chase plane pilots accompanying Columbia's journey. There were several men in flight suits around, but I don't know if Deke was there when we were or not.
The articles also had photos of a line of people waiting to go inside the 747. But, there was no line of people when we were given the tour. I don't recall anyone there at the time except for us and the people working in and around the aircraft. So, I realize now that we really got the VIP treatment!
-- Roger
Back in 1979 I was 17 years old. My father was in the Air Force and worked as the assistant to the Chief of Maintenance at Eglin AFB. When Columbia made its first trip atop the 747 to KSC, it stopped at Eglin. My dad arranged for my brother and I to see it up close.
One of the pilots escorted us into the 747 where we saw the cockpit then climbed up a ladder to get a peek at the bottom of the orbiter just a few feet away. It was potmarked by all the missing tiles which were such a concern back then. Later, we watched the 747 take off to head to KSC.
The new stuff is that I did some research on the Internet and found some old newspaper articles about the stopover at Eglin. I learned that Deke Slayton was one of the chase plane pilots accompanying Columbia's journey. There were several men in flight suits around, but I don't know if Deke was there when we were or not.
The articles also had photos of a line of people waiting to go inside the 747. But, there was no line of people when we were given the tour. I don't recall anyone there at the time except for us and the people working in and around the aircraft. So, I realize now that we really got the VIP treatment!
-- Roger
luke strawwalker
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Jan 18, 2009
- Messages
- 9,147
- Reaction score
- 40
Not ALL the flights of the SCA had the shuttle equipped with the tail cone... some of the Approach and Landing Tests didn't have the tail cone, so that the orbiter would more closely simulate the aerodynamics of an orbiter returning from space... The tail cone reduced drag by about 50%. I saw the tail cone sitting in the transfer aisle of the VAB, waiting to be installed on Endeavor, when I was in Florida a couple years ago... Endeavor itself was sitting in one of the low bays right in front of us behind a barricade fence. That was shortly before its transfer to California for the last time a couple months later...
Of course, if they were going for the "ALT" appearance, they'd have to repaint the SCA to the old silver w/ red, white, and blue stripes look that it had back in the 70's, and they aren't going to do that. Don't think they plan on installing the tail cone; I guess time will tell...
Most of these "museums" now don't particularly care about the accuracy of their displays... and SCH has a few gaffes bigger than this would be...
Later! OL JR
PS... the Russians had equipped their shuttle with jet engines at one point so it could be 'self-ferrying'... I've seen similar proposals for the US shuttle back in the 70's before they settled on the SCA...
