GUNS & ROCKETS

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Firearms are not illegal in Germany. They are regulated though, and the law is comparably strict.

In a nutshell:
Firearms need to be registered and stored in a secure manner. To own a firearm, a license is required which in turn requires some conditions to be met like minimum age (18y), trustworthiness (e.g. not a felon), personal suitability (e.g. no alcohol/drug addiction, mental illness, suicidal tendencies), relevant knowledge and a recognized "need" (e.g. for sporting, hunting, historical significant collecting, known security risks). To carry firearms, an additional license is required which is only issued on the basis of a concrete security need. Typically it is only granted to security professionals or the couriers of valuable goods although a ordinary citizens might receive a carry license if a clear threat to them exists (rare).

Reinhard

That's almost as bad as verboten though. I mean think about it, you need to demonstrate a "need" which of course the government decides what they are. You might have a psychopatic boy/girl friend who wants to kill you and you live way out in the middle of nowhere. Of course crimes are low in Germany so nobody worries about that </sarcasm>.

Guns are not illegal in Taiwan either but they are so strictly regulated that they might as well be. Same with China, Mexico, Japan, etc.
 
That's almost as bad as verboten though. I mean think about it, you need to demonstrate a "need" which of course the government decides what they are.

Don't make assumptions. The scare quotes are there for a reason - it's only a rough translation of the everyday meaning of a German word (Bedürfnis) which is defined with precision - the Germans are good at that - in this specific legal context (§8 WaffG, §13 WaffG, §17 WaffG, $18 WaffG). If you meet one of the possible requirements (pick which one suits your interests best), no bureaucrat can deny your license because he doesn't like your face.

To make it as simple as possible: Guns are not illegal in Germany. Discussing the finer points ends up in either legalese, which is boring, or politics, which we should keep out of this thread.

Reinhard
 
New toy acquired that I have less than 40 rounds through thus far. Having a lot of fun with it. :grin:

Ruger American Predator in 6.5 Creedmoor
Vortex Crossfire II 6-18 X 44 V-Brite
Seekins Precision Scope Rings

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Tried trapshooting this past weekend for the first time. Loved it! Got 18 out of 25 on the practice stand and 14 out of 25 on the 5 position.

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Trap shooting differs from Skeet shooting by where the clay pigeons are launched from. Trap uses a single launcher placed in the center of the Trap/Skeet range. Skeet has two launchers called a High and a Low house, as you move around the firing positions in skeet eventually you will get a near overhead pass either at or away from the shooter and it could come from either of the two launchers. In Trap you will never have a oncoming target, they will be angling or directly away from the shooter. IMO Skeet is harder than Trap. Sporting Clays is another clay pigeon breaking sport only the "range" is a trail that has throwing stations along it to give a hunting type situation.
 
Speaking of that, at work someone just bought like 20 boxes of shotgun shells and 10 boxes of clay pigeon. I guess he's going to do some shooting
 
I've managed to figure out the ammo shelf re-stocking schedule at the local Sportsman's Warehouse. Ammo comes in on Thursday afternoon and gets put out on the shelf first thing Friday morning.

Finally started arriving in the store before noon and managed to pick up two 100-rd boxes of CCI Mini Mag .22LR at $8.99 each last week and today a 500-rd box of Remington Thunderbolt .22LR for $32.99. Have no experience with the Remington rimfire product so I'll have to try it out in the Ruger 10-22 International model.
 
I grew up on Remington, mostly Thunderbolt and Golden Bullet. Never had any issues with it after many thousands of rounds.
 
...and today a 500-rd box of Remington Thunderbolt .22LR for $32.99. Have no experience with the Remington rimfire product so I'll have to try it out in the Ruger 10-22 International model.

I've fired many types of .22 (including .22 short and match ammo) and likely a few thousand rounds last year of it and Thunderbolts are near the bottom of my list...they seem the most inaccurate and dirty of the group. I purchased a bunch of bricks many years ago and usually save it for guests who just want to shoot for fun with revolvers (TBs can quickly dirty up the action of the semis). To be fair, I recall one gun that shot well with them...maybe a 10-shot SW .22lr revolver, but for almost all my other guns these were the most inaccurate by a noticeable margin. YMMV

On the other hand, I think CCI is great and very reliable and many at my range love them; however I think I noticed some drop in quality after the ammo shortage got really bad (to be expected since ammo manufacturers couldn't keep up with supply and had to increase production/hire more staff).

Please do report back with your ammo experience! :)

BTW - For a while I was obsessed with gun accuracy and was in a bulls-eye league, so I used to go often with different ammo and test them on different guns...as often as twice a week.
 
I've fired many types of .22 (including .22 short and match ammo) and likely a few thousand rounds last year of it and Thunderbolts are near the bottom of my list...they seem the most inaccurate and dirty of the group. I purchased a bunch of bricks many years ago and usually save it for guests who just want to shoot for fun with revolvers (TBs can quickly dirty up the action of the semis). To be fair, I recall one gun that shot well with them...maybe a 10-shot SW .22lr revolver, but for almost all my other guns these were the most inaccurate by a noticeable margin. YMMV

On the other hand, I think CCI is great and very reliable and many at my range love them; however I think I noticed some drop in quality after the ammo shortage got really bad (to be expected since ammo manufacturers couldn't keep up with supply and had to increase production/hire more staff).

Please do report back with your ammo experience! :)

BTW - For a while I was obsessed with gun accuracy and was in a bulls-eye league, so I used to go often with different ammo and test them on different guns...as often as twice a week.


...so we now know what's bad...tell us what's good....IYHO...
 
...so we now know what's bad...tell us what's good....IYHO...

You would think it's a simple answer, but sadly no. Reason is that:
*guns and barrels are so different...even within the same line due to differences in manufacturing.
*bullets can differ too based on batch as well as when and where it is manufactured (that's why top shooters buy ammo in lots with the same lot number and do tests before they shoot in competition)
*performance can sometimes be the shooter themselves...you'd like to think you're consistent, but usually you're the biggest factor.

However to answer the question, my experience is that these are the best of the ones I've tested a lot and note that I purchased much of these a number of years ago before the .22lr ammo became more scarce than a non-flaming political thread here:
*CCI Standard - Standard velocity, so may not work on all Semi-autos; however it shoots very accurately and very reliably.
*CCI Minimag - Higher velocity, so it functions better in SAs, but not as accurate as above. More recent lots I've used seem to have a few more duds, which used to be extremely rare. Dud = good strike on end, but no boom...reload in, fire again with another good strike and nothing.
*Federal Champion (in boxes of 550 and 525...used to be available at Walmart and Gander Mountain) - Great all around round...very reliable, cheap, not dirty, very accurate for non-target ammo. Hardly ever a problem in almost all guns. I've likely fired 10,000 rounds of this last year alone across maybe a dozen or more .22lr guns. My standard practice ammo...good thing I bought a lot of it years ago when it was on sale with a rebate!
*Eley ammo - Some of the best target ammo, but hard to get and very pricey...Eley Tenex is considered the standard target ammo for competition and last I checked went for about $20 for a small box of 50.
*Federal Automatch - When I first used it, it seemed like the Fed Champions, but a bit more accurate. I used to find it at Walmart for about $15 for a box of 325...now I haven't seen it on the shelf in maybe 4 years. Also the more recent batches I found locally at gun shops seem to have more duds, so I no longer try hard to find this. My shooting partner only used this ammo in his S&W Model 41.
*Aguila ammo - Not common; however I bought some through mail order ammo companies a number of years back and it shot very well. I used it at my most recent NRA Sectional and it shot great; unfortunately I had malfunctions since I apparently forgot to oil the slide when I last cleaned my pistol (note that I use SuperExtra, which is lower velocity and isn't meant for Semi-autos, but my modded Sig Trailside shot it great...as long as I had oil on the slide).

Happy shooting with whatever .22lr ammo you can find! :D
 
These days it doesn't pay to be too picky on your .22 rimfire ammo unless you are shooting competitively. Its still hard to get any more than a single brick (500 rds) at time in my area. The ammo comes in and there is a limit on the number you can buy, the stuff only lasts a day or so if the store receives less than a full pallet. I definitely have my preferences as well most are the same as KenECoyotes, except to that I will add the Wolf Match Target which my Browning Buckmark Match 7" just loves (I used to shoot a lot of Bullseye Comps as a member of my local clubs Pistol Team).
 
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I will add the Wolf Match Target which my Browning Buckmark Match 7" just loves (I used to shoot a lot of Bullseye Comps as a member of my local clubs Pistol Team).
I liked Wolf Match too...shot VERY well; however I found it a bit too greasy and dirtier than the CCI which shot almost as well. Also the Wolf ammo supply seemed to have disappeared shortly after I got maybe 5 bricks. I've had a stock Walther G22 (bullpup SA) do 3 shots 1/4" at 75' with Wolf ammo repeatedly (& with Fed Automatch about as well).
 
Most outlets impose a 3 package limit on purchase of .22LR where the round count is 100 or less. One only package of 300 rounds or greater is the norm. Gun shows naturally limit sales to the quantity on hand but the price for bricks is much higher than at local outlets. On the other hand, they have it for sale.

The Sportsman's Warehouse had a couple of 1400 or 1500 round buckets of Golden Bullet but I was leery of committing to a large purchase of a round I'd never used before.

Interesting about the Aquila .22LR being scarce. It's pretty common here in Cali. Eley in various types is also regularly available but is too spending for simple plinking/paper plate punching.

My Wheeler AR bench block from Amazon arrived yesterday and I'd intended to play with it a bit today. Have a stripped lower and a parts kits that need to be introduced to each other. Still looking locally for an AceFX skeleton stock complete package but no joy. Will probably have to go the mailorder route.
 
It's was a rhetorical question really, my .22 is an antique Western Field Octagon Barrel Pump Action. I've eliminated hundreds of ground squirrels and jack rabbits with it and never really noticed any difference in accuracy except for CCI Hollow Points shooting flatter and things dying faster. Even here in Idaho where they are made they have almost disappeared from the market. I think "insiders" buy them as fast as they are made. I'll just keep shooting what I can find and lowering the vermin population :)
 
Its still hard to get any more than a single brick (500 rds) at time in my area. The ammo comes in and there is a limit on the number you can buy, the stuff only lasts a day or so if the store receives less than a full pallet.

Want more ammo? The trick is to hoard it before a shortage. Just kidding! :grin:

I'll tell you what really worked for me when I was looking for 22lr ammo last year and the year before: https://www.gunbot.net/ammo/rimfire/22lr/

The trick is to set an alert for 22lr ammo and an alarm so each time some come in, you know and can quickly jump to the website and order. I work on the computer all day (and often night) and would have my personal computer on with that website on the background, so I would hear whenever something was available on a website, take a quick look at what it is, go and add it in if it is ammo I like, then check out as quickly as I can. I'm sure by now there's some app for this as well, so you can get an alert on your phone, so you guys can have it easier than me!

Another method I found was that a certain major chain sporting goods store would often release CCI 22lr ammo on their website on Thursdays about 1AM in the morning (usually a limit of one brick). I would simply go check the website deals, see click on the ammo and quickly add it to my cart. That one usually would last a few hours. However the good thing for me here was that the retailer had a local store location and I could have it shipped to that store free of charge and just pick it up. The store personnel would constantly be amazed at how much 22lr ammo I was getting, so I guess I was dong very well.

If you want something bad enough, work harder, smarter or more "sneakily" to get it! :wink:
 
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Or just be lucky! I ordered 5,000 rounds of 22 about two months before the shortage started! At the old prices too.
 
Want more ammo? The trick is to hoard it before a shortage. Just kidding! :grin:

Or just be lucky! I ordered 5,000 rounds of 22 about two months before the shortage started! At the old prices too.

That was my first tip! :wink:

Our motto should be: "Hoard today, gone tomorrow!" :lol:
 
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22lr and smokeless powders have been coming back pretty regularly for me... albeit I have to drive 80+ miles one way for a good selection of powder. I have been able to order Wolf Match 22lr and the SK variant from Champions Choice no problem. Granted, you pay shipping etc, but the ammo is quality and worth the price. I don't shoot it as often as I would like, but it is available (for now) when I want it.
 
My two black powder sources closed over the years (Shapel's and Intermountain Arms) so I'll be looking for a new outlet...should be one here local...you'd think...

I hope they have Hercules 2400 for my pistol:sigh:
 
What is hoarding, anyway?

Is it getting lucky well before the shortage when a major retailer gets out of the ammo business, and taking advantage by buying up a huge quantity of bulk ammo at absolute give-away prices?

Guilty.

But my favorite ammo for rimfire competition is, or was, RWS 100. Used to get 'em at about $6 a box of 50. Today, they want 50 cents a round. Nevermind, Mr. Dealer. You shoot 'em. Too pricey for my tastes. I'll put up with the bulk ammo results, I guess.

My real complaint about ammo is they obsoleted one of my favorite cartridges when I wasn't looking. :cry:
 
I've tried SKS and RWS, but couldn't get enough of it to really do a lot of testing. They shot well and accurately from what I could tell. I'll add that Federal Gold Medal Match seemed really good for the boxes I bought years ago; however some of the ones I got last year had issue...one box of 50 even had 2 duds!

For me, I come from a family of hoarders and likely have OCD (hence all the shooting to find the good ammo). I'm the best of my sibs since I have free walking space around the house and can fit passengers in my car, but when I like something, I tend to look for deals and buy a lot of it. Seems to work well for me as long as I can still fit it in the house without my wife leaving me. :wink:

As a side note, since I have a "decent" supply of 22's, if I see any of it on the shelf/in the store, I might pick up a few boxes since I'm still using faster than replacing, but I always make sure to leave some for the next guy. I've even given two people bricks of CCI since one couldn't find it for the matches and another didn't have anything for his grandkids to shoot. I've never sold the ammo I have for profit either.
 
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