GUNS & ROCKETS

KenECoyote said:

I would agree...here are the test discs that came with the two I have...the one on the left is for the trailside shown above..can't blame the gun! :wink:

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The downside of owning guns capable of groups like that is that you start to realize that you are the one making most of the error, the upside is you can start diagnosing your shooting skills and get better.

rharshberger said:

The downside of owning guns capable of groups like that is that you start to realize that you are the one making most of the error, the upside is you can start diagnosing your shooting skills and get better.

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Yup, agree 100% and I was actually going to say the same earlier. However there's nothing quite like having a tackdriver.

I used to shoot a marvel upper with iron sights on my 1911 lower in bullseye till I got my distinguished pistol shot badge, just to maintain the same grip and trigger feel, of my centerfire/.45 then switched to a trailside with red dot. The Marvel needed slight lubrication of the first round in the magazine to keep running 100% but was very accurate. The trailside had the most natural feel and trigger pull for me and was an excellent value. I will say my test targets with the marvel matched the trailside examples above but were 10 shots at 50 yards, not 25 meters. However in practice I shot my trailside as well or better than the ace.

For a while I shot an Izh-35 which shot very well, but I never could quite get the grip to fit my hand well enough.

I never liked the way the buckmarks strip with their little plastic bits and washers, and the curve of trigger put the corner in the middle of my trigger finger, even though mine shot very well I didn't like it. My smith 41 was fine, as were my high standard supermatic citations, but the high standards were magazine finicky and I never shot my 41 as well as that trailside. My rugers were very sturdy pistols and could be made to have an excellent trigger but I never liked the grip angle of the mkII. The new smith looks like a nice design, but I detest the glow sights. I prefer a pure black on black sight. If you are shooting bullseye you typically aren't using a center/navy hold and you are holding slightly below the bull so the black is against the light paper, not against the black target. If you are doing rapid sight aquisition or using a center hold on a dark target then the fiber sights are helpful. However sight alignment requires you to see the top of the front sight relative to the rear notch and the gap left and right, typically these fiber sights and dot sights in general don't have the dots perfectly aligned accross them and it is good for coarse alignment only imo.

Frank

I have a circa 1968 SW Model 41 with a Clark barrel which is possibly my most accurate bullseye gun; however I never could get it working with enough reliability to use in competition. I also have a High Standard Citation with a Victory barrel, but it doesn't seem to shoot or feel as well as my other guns.

Additionally, I have a very accurate Marvel 1911 upper (I think it almost did one hole with 5 shots at 50' last I bench tested it), but sadly my eyesight is now too poor for iron sights, so I never use it much since I couldn't get good enough with the 45s I have (even with OCD monitored reloads). Maybe one day.

I was looking for a Walther GSP when NY suddenly passed the emergency "SAFE" act and it became an assault weapon since it was mag forward. Oh well. I did look for an IZH-35 for a while after that, but couldn't find a good one at a decent price. Then I got into rocketry and gun funds went bye-bye into the sky. :wink:

I've got this, would like to sell it.....



Trapdoor

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KenECoyote said:

I have a circa 1968 SW Model 41 with a Clark barrel which is possibly my most accurate bullseye gun; however I never could get it working with enough reliability to use in competition. I also have a High Standard Citation with a Victory barrel, but it doesn't seem to shoot or feel as well as my other guns.

Additionally, I have a very accurate Marvel 1911 upper (I think it almost did one hole with 5 shots at 50' last I bench tested it), but sadly my eyesight is now too poor for iron sights, so I never use it much since I couldn't get good enough with the 45s I have (even with OCD monitored reloads). Maybe one day.

I was looking for a Walther GSP when NY suddenly passed the emergency "SAFE" act and it became an assault weapon since it was mag forward...

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I have a couple of Model 41s and they can be pretty picky on ammo. But there are a lot of gunsmiths who work on them and can tune them to get them to run very well.

Right now my favorite target pistol is a Nelson Custom top on a 1911 frame. The Nelson unit is designed by Bob Marvel and is very accurate. A picture of my setup is way back in post 990 of this thread (page 33) - it's got a red dot sight that works well even in the Texas sun. The Nelson units are very highly regarded but cost more than most 22 pistols.

But it's your comment about 'mag forward' guns being outlawed in NY that caught my eye. So that means my 1960's Walther OSP which shoots .22 shorts with a 5 round magazine and was designed for Olympic rapid fire competition is illegal? That is completely crazy. Here's my NY outlawed OSP:



I shoot it quite a bit since it really helps me focus on the mechanics of target shooting. My dad gave it to my grandfather, my dad inherited it back, and now I finally have it. The idea that it's somehow more dangerous because the magazine is forward shows how dumb a lot of gun laws are. Just as bad my Nelson unit would also be banned because it has a threaded barrel. Who knew that threads were so dangerous!


Tony

manixFan said:

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I have a couple of Model 41s and they can be pretty picky on ammo. But there are a lot of gunsmiths who work on them and can tune them to get them to run very well.

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I've meant to get the M41 reliability tested and tuned; however back when I was trying to get it working (meant testing many barrels, spring changes and bullet testing), it was during the start of the Great Bullet Depression/Recession and 22lr ammo was quite scarce, so I was worried about gunsmiths getting ammo for reliability testing (or the cost of it). Worse yet, one serious stovepipe resulted in an empty shell casing actually denting the feed ramp of my best (Clark) barrel! I then focused more on my other two target pistols (shown above) which were much more reliable and I don't have any regrets on that.

manixFan said:

But it's your comment about 'mag forward' guns being outlawed in NY that caught my eye. So that means my 1960's Walther OSP which shoots .22 shorts with a 5 round magazine and was designed for Olympic rapid fire competition is illegal? That is completely crazy. Here's my NY outlawed OSP:

View attachment 308461

I shoot it quite a bit since it really helps me focus on the mechanics of target shooting. My dad gave it to my grandfather, my dad inherited it back, and now I finally have it. The idea that it's somehow more dangerous because the magazine is forward shows how dumb a lot of gun laws are. Just as bad my Nelson unit would also be banned because it has a threaded barrel. Who knew that threads were so dangerous!
Tony

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Nice OSP! :drool: How does it shoot?

I just checked on the NYSAFE act again and that law is confusing! What I said earlier on the mag-forward was based on what a friend at the range who owned one told me when the law was first passed. Since then I believe they've changed it so that you can have one "evil" feature on your semi-auto pistol* (was actually looking this up before I saw your post *EDIT* - I was looking up rifles and for pistols they don't allow any banned feature such as a magazine that doesn't feed into the pistol grip). However it's always best to check with someone who knows better such as a gun shop owner and to research state gun laws on your own more carefully. All I remember is that a few years ago I was about to buy a Walther GSP Expert off Gunbroker for $700, but figured that I should wait since that wasn't small change I can always get one later...then they passed the law and suddenly I couldn't buy it. Maybe I can one day...

As an added note, I had to register two guns as "Assault weapons"...a Desert Eagle .50AE (over 50oz unloaded and I would feel bad for anyone using it to assault since it mostly assaults the person firing it) and a .22lr Walther GSP (bullpup...shoots incredibly despite smoke and powder residue in your face ).

For those of you interested in 22lr accuracy, here is a great test of 22lr ammo in a top-of-the-line target rifle ("if you have to ask how much it costs, you can't afford it"):

https://bulletin.accurateshooter.co...all-rimfire-ammo-tests-accuratereloading-com/

Looking at the commonly available non-match ones (in my area), CCI Standard and Federal Champion did surprisingly well, which backs up my own experience with them. I also like Eley, but usually can't find it in the stores by my area.

KenECoyote said:

For those of you interested in 22lr accuracy, here is a great test of 22lr ammo in a top-of-the-line target rifle ("if you have to ask how much it costs, you can't afford it"):

https://bulletin.accurateshooter.co...all-rimfire-ammo-tests-accuratereloading-com/

Looking at the commonly available non-match ones (in my area), CCI Standard and Federal Champion did surprisingly well, which backs up my own experience with them. I also like Eley, but usually can't find it in the stores by my area.

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Of course as any 22LR target shooter knows what is top in one rifle may be middle of the road in another. It's one of the most frustrating things about shooting 22s, how much variability there is between guns and ammo. However it's clear the top tier brands produce the most consistent results.

I shoot a lot of mid-range target stuff, generally not more than about $10/50 rounds. At my age and ability it's not worth spending more. But I can hold my own against my nephews who are less than half my age so I'm happy with that. If I shot competitively it would be a different story.

My OSP shoots very well with CCI standard velocity shorts. I can only run sub-sonic through it since it's ported. The OSP is an interesting pistol - the actual barrel seems too short to be very accurate. But the 22 short does not need a lot of barrel to be accurate. The only other gun I shoot shorts in is my Browning lever action 22 which will shoot anything I put in it. It will hold 22 rounds of 22 shorts which makes for a lot of fun plinking. It's also a great rifle for new shooters.

Overall I like CCI ammo - Standard Velocity and CCI Mini-Mags are great all around choices for either pistols or rifles. It's also readily available again in my neck of the woods which is great for those who were caught short in great ammo drought of the last few years.

Most of my ammo I buy online from places like MidwayUSA or championshooters.com depending on availability.


Tony

So you can shoot some one at 25 yrds and hit them in the eye.

Ya'll should try some running and gunning.

[YOUTUBE]9N4LQKJIPlw[/YOUTUBE]

I've competed in most of the different shooting disciplines. I've done both CAS and IPSC and I thought I would love them, however I did not, there was a lot of standing and waiting, and a short amount of shooting, I found I enjoyed vintage military highpower and pistol matches which use a different rifle/pistol each month, require custom loading, and are sort of a gun show looking at what everyone brought. They also often require some kentucky windage/elevation depending on distance/position since they mostly don't have precision elevation/windage adjustment which requires you to practice and take notes.... the weapons have a lot of history and I enjoy using something that has some history...my competition pistols are excellent tools but that is all they are. It's funny, when I ran PPC matches which are in-between bullseye and action pistol, the ipsc folks would come over and shoot very quickly but almost to a person, their accuracy/scores were terrible as the scoring rings were much smaller than the action style targets which are geared for practical accuracy. Everyone is different, it's all good.

Frank


Frank

Sounds like fun, I'm a Kentucky windage kind of guy! I grew up with iron sights and I've always felt funny pointing glowing red dots at the target. That's why I've always shot in the limited division. No optics.

burkefj said:

I've competed in most of the different shooting disciplines. I've done both CAS and IPSC and I thought I would love them, however I did not, there was a lot of standing and waiting, and a short amount of shooting, I found I enjoyed vintage military highpower and pistol matches which use a different rifle/pistol each month, require custom loading, and are sort of a gun show looking at what everyone brought. They also often require some kentucky windage/elevation depending on distance/position since they mostly don't have precision elevation/windage adjustment which requires you to practice and take notes.... the weapons have a lot of history and I enjoy using something that has some history...my competition pistols are excellent tools but that is all they are. It's funny, when I ran PPC matches which are in-between bullseye and action pistol, the ipsc folks would come over and shoot very quickly but almost to a person, their accuracy/scores were terrible as the scoring rings were much smaller than the action style targets which are geared for practical accuracy. Everyone is different, it's all good.

Frank


Frank

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BayouRat said:

Ya'll should try some running and gunning.

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Have we not seen this before? BayouRat post numbers 491, and 787... any recent gun activities, purchases, shoots, etc.?

rfjustin said:

Have we not seen this before? BayouRat post numbers 491, and 787... any recent gun activities, purchases, shoots, etc.?

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I've been sidelined with injuries. I was in a terrible auto accident. Multiple injuries. Just as my back was getting better I developed a detached tendon in my grip hand. So it looks like I'll be out another 6 months. Then I need to loose about 30 pounds to get back into competition shape. I still retain my USPSA membership. But I may not go back into it competitively. I was shooting 150 round matches almost every weekend. Then the regional 2 day 300+ round matches. I just don't know if I have it in me anymore to push that hard. I may just shoot for fun once I get cleared by my doctor. also the squad I shot with has moved on so I would have to find a group I like and fit in with.

When I was growing up and it was time to learn about gun safety, I really took a liking to sport shooting. As I got older, I seemed to only want one of any single “type” of gun. The CZ Scorpion pistol that I bought in late 2015 has been a crazy fun gun that resembled a PCC (pistol caliber carbine).


Ever since buying CZ Scorpion pistol, a lifelong friend of mine took a serious liking to it as well and we have put many a 9mm through it. As typical, 9 months after I bought the pistol version, CZ released the carbine version. If given the choice I would have chosen the carbine version over the pistol version any day of the week. My buddy, who received a sizable end of the year bonus (burning a hole in his pocket) decided that it was time for him to buy a pistol version and he wanted it decked out just like mine. I felt obligated to tell him about the availability of the carbine version. As it turns out, he was not aware of the carbine version, but he still did have quite the liking for the pistol version over the carbine. To make a long story short, he wanted me to buy the carbine version (which was on sale at the time of our conversation) and to sell him my pistol version. Sold, bought, shipped, transferred, received, transferred done! I took the carbine, added Leopold PRW rings, and a Vortex Strike Eagle scope. LOVE THIS SETUP NOW, ever more than before!

BayouRat said:

I've been sidelined with injuries. I was in a terrible auto accident. Multiple injuries. Just as my back was getting better I developed a detached tendon in my grip hand. So it looks like I'll be out another 6 months....

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Wow, sorry to hear about all your trouble. Sounds like it was a rough year. I sure hope 2017 is a better year for you and you get back on the range.


Tony

BayouRat said:

I've been sidelined with injuries. I was in a terrible auto accident. Multiple injuries. Just as my back was getting better I developed a detached tendon in my grip hand. So it looks like I'll be out another 6 months. Then I need to loose about 30 pounds to get back into competition shape. I still retain my USPSA membership. But I may not go back into it competitively. I was shooting 150 round matches almost every weekend. Then the regional 2 day 300+ round matches. I just don't know if I have it in me anymore to push that hard. I may just shoot for fun once I get cleared by my doctor. also the squad I shot with has moved on so I would have to find a group I like and fit in with.

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Wow, I'm really sorry to hear of the accident ..
You feel better..
Just you wait and see what a wonderful year you have in store for you coming up.. lol..

Teddy

So I had a DMW ez loader. didn't like it. fixed that. Dumped the whole trigger group for an 1100 tactical trigger plate assembly So now I've got spare stocks, trigger, barrels for an 11-87....herm...to dump on eBay or build another...)




So I had these two after grabbing the 870 NIB for $250 on BF


Too long....needed some work... and some more wood....



The 11-87 is something I've wanted to put wood on for ten years. A buddy had some new 870 furniture and offered it up for $40. Jumped on it and the stock fit perfectly. Grabbed a new forend on eBay, and here we go. Still debating glass bedding the forend...it's a touch loose. But I'm also lazy.


oh, I'm also pretty cleaver.... hehehehe

Dave,,,,

What's the gold pouch in the picture ?????

Teddy

onebadhawk said:

Dave,,,,

What's the gold pouch in the picture ?????

Teddy

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youve probably never seen one

I've been too busy with my new toy to take a pic but I'll share anyway. Santa brought me a Daniel Defense V7LW with Troy sights. I just put a Geissele trigger in it Thursday. Shoots like butter. Now I just need a bucket of ammo and time to burn it. It's my first AR and I am in love.

grouch said:

Santa brought me a Daniel Defense V7LW with Troy sights. I just put a Geissele trigger in it Thursday.

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Congrats on the DD! That rifle will serve you well. I have a DDV1 circa February 2012, also with a Geissele trigger (SSA-E) and a Surefire muzzle break as well. DD makes a sweet rifle, congrats again!

Gave my inherited guns to my son, I cannot hold them up anymore since losing most of the strength in my arms.

My first 10/22 - stock except for $59 Ruger BX trigger drop-in. Cheap AIM Sports $24 4x scope added and shot off bench using a single bag rest (no fancy contraption!). All shot with CCI Standard Velocity at 25 yards in 5 shot groups. Targets #4 & #5 have 4 bullets in the same hole and a first-round flier. Smallest group is about 0.125" minus the flier. I then adjusted scope and for #6 I thought I'd be smart and aim the first one low right to negate the first round flier.

Target #6 had failure to load (FTL) after each bullet, so I had to get up each time to check and reload.







I'm new to bench rest shooting and I'm simply blown away by this gun. :eyepop:


So now I'm going to leave the gun alone since it's a laser weapon and got another 10/22 for modding (got it on sale for $199 from the same store this past Saturday!). Has anyone seen something like this before from a sub-$250 stock semi-auto rifle?

My dad and I took the twins to the range over the weekend, still having quite the blast with these.

rfjustin said:

My dad and I took the twins to the range over the weekend, still having quite the blast with these.

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The only complaint I read about the S&W Victory for some is the weight. Otherwise it continues to get stellar reviews. It sure seems like a very well thought out pistol. Your photo shows one reason why - the ability to switch very easily between target sights and a rail for a red dot or other optic right out of the box. And the rail still has a sight groove at the back so it can work with the front sight. I may have to break down and pick one up and put a reflex sight on it.

And KenECoyote - how's that rifle working out? Looked like you got off to a great start with it. I mostly shoot bolt-action 22s, but it seems like for semi-autos the 10/22 is a heck of a rifle that offers no end of customization. Be interested to hear how the accuracy is holding up.


Tony

Does anyone have a side-by-side coach gun? I don't have a huge interest in shooting, mostly because my vision is too poor. I don't do well at precision shooting at long distances, but I have had fun plinking with friends in the past when we could set up targets at whatever distance we want, and I could visibly see the tin can or whatever we were shooting at jump when hit. Lately I've been in the mood to blast some stuff, and I think a shotgun might be just the thing. I'm not really interested in spending very much for a quality gun for hunting or for trap or skeet. I'm more interested in blowing up pumpkins at about 25 yards. Anyone have any suggestions for that kind of gun?

ThirstyBarbarian said:

Does anyone have a side-by-side coach gun? I don't have a huge interest in shooting, mostly because my vision is too poor. I don't do well at precision shooting at long distances, but I have had fun plinking with friends in the past when we could set up targets at whatever distance we want, and I could visibly see the tin can or whatever we were shooting at jump when hit. Lately I've been in the mood to blast some stuff, and I think a shotgun might be just the thing. I'm not really interested in spending very much for a quality gun for hunting or for trap or skeet. I'm more interested in blowing up pumpkins at about 25 yards. Anyone have any suggestions for that kind of gun?

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I love doubles...and want a coach gun. The only readily available ones new, are from Stoeger. run about $400, but are made out of country and imported....Some questions as to long term quality.

Henry is making a new single barrel, which comes out in May, and I FULLY intend to pick one up. Also about $400 retail I'd guess https://www.henryusa.com/shotgun/single-shot-shotgun/

There are still some NEF single barrels out there for under $200

A remington 870 pump brand new usually runs $350. I got mine on black friday weekend for $250 after sale and rebate.

Hey Thirsty. Single shot shot guns are cheap, very cheap. You just have to watch what your buying. Like H&R, there are plastic pieces that ought to be metal.
My suggestion is hit a gun show or 2. My uncle (years ago) dripped $20 for one, sawed the barrel off and used it for years to bird hunt with his boy's and I while I was growing up.
I know have that gun. It's a Utica. Only made between 1900 and 1920. It's probably worth about the same $20 in it's restored condition, but it's sentimental value is priceless to me.
Couple years ago I picked up 2 Mossberg pump shot guns from Walmart (don't shop there no more). Mine was a 3-1/2" Chambered 12 gauge, and a 3" chambered 20 gauge for my son Josh.
With 20 boxes of shells for each (9 shot for trap) it was less than $600 bucks. (back when I had money, more like 5 or 6 years probably). Both done in Walnut stocks & forearms.
If you have a local used gun dealer (we do here) I picked up a black sytetic Mossberg 3" chambered 12 gauge for $200. Sold it back for $175 when I bought the new ones.
I traded a router for another 12 gauge Mossbert 3" chambered walnut stock. I ended up selling the 3-1/2" chambered one to the used gun dealer for $15 more than I paid including tax.
Stay away from Gander Mountain, Cabela's and Bass Pro Shops, they want too much for what they have. Gun shows usually turn up something, and people are always willing to take trades, and dicker.
A coach gun is cool, old time fun. functionally, they have been replaced by the over/unders. That what people use on skeet now. You don't have to adjust aim side to side for the barrels.
Buying online can be both good and bad. Some great deals can be had. But, you have to get a FFL dealer to take delivery in your area, and they cost $25 to $75. Normally the standard is $35.
Thing is, right now guns are plenty and good deals are out there. You just need to know what your buying.
If you think you found a good deal, you can always post it here and I'm sure there are a few of us gun guys that can tell ya if it's a good deal or not.
And if pumpkins are going to be your only enemy, a used one from a gun show is your best bet on a deal. Or a friend, or friend of a friend type thingy. Co-worker, etc.

ThirstyBarbarian said:

Does anyone have a side-by-side coach gun? I don't have a huge interest in shooting, mostly because my vision is too poor. I don't do well at precision shooting at long distances, but I have had fun plinking with friends in the past when we could set up targets at whatever distance we want, and I could visibly see the tin can or whatever we were shooting at jump when hit. Lately I've been in the mood to blast some stuff, and I think a shotgun might be just the thing. I'm not really interested in spending very much for a quality gun for hunting or for trap or skeet. I'm more interested in blowing up pumpkins at about 25 yards. Anyone have any suggestions for that kind of gun?

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Woody's Workshop said:

Hey Thirsty. Single shot shot guns are cheap, very cheap. You just have to watch what your buying. Like H&R, there are plastic pieces that ought to be metal.

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Not being a wiseass- Where's the plastic at? My wife picked up an NEF (essentially an H&R) 20 gauge single from Cabela's used. Pretty sure she paid new retail price...but oh well. I told her not to do that anymore ><. Seems like a solid little guy, but if there's a spot to look out for, let me know.

MY personal soft spot is Ithacha doubles. My Dad has my Grandfather's double 16, and it's a sweet gun. Beat up field grade, but they don't make them like that anymore. Some day I'll find a good double I can afford.