Quadcopters, gliders, and HPR

I have noticed that quite a few people are using Quadcopters, gliders, etc to video launches from an aerial perspective.

Now, I don't want to rain on anyone's parade or such, but, do these count as "aircraft in our flight window" or not?

Should we be launching HPR rockets when these are in the air around the launch site? I know that the chance of collision is minimal, but, it would be catastrophic if it DID happen.

S-1

You have brought up some good questions and it will be interesting to see the replies.

Salvage-1 said:

I have noticed that quite a few people are using Quadcopters, gliders, etc to video launches from an aerial perspective.

Now, I don't want to rain on anyone's parade or such, but, do these count as "aircraft in our flight window" or not?

Should we be launching HPR rockets when these are in the air around the launch site? I know that the chance of collision is minimal, but, it would be catastrophic if it DID happen.

S-1

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Why would it be "Catastrophic"?? Neither the Rockets nor the "Unmanned Aircraft" are loaded with Shrapnel and High Explosives.

I immagine that it would be "Catastrophic" for the owners of the Rocket and the Aircraft on an Emotional Level, but in reality, you would have a Collision, followed by a bunch of Cardboard, Wood Bits and minimal Metal and Wires harmlessly fluttering down to Earth. Possibly a Hazard from the onboard Batteries if they were damaged and someone were to get a Chemical Burn from handling them without precautions.

Now, I don't want to rain on anyone's parade ....

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Nevertheless, your post does seem to be intentionally inflammatory.

We launch rockets while other rockets are descending under parachute. A rocket under 'chute is much larger than any quadcopter, yet I've never seen a rocket going up even come close to one on the way down. Therefore, the chance of a rocket hitting a much smaller object positioned away from the line of flight is so remote that there's no reason to consider it. And, in the highly unlikely event that a collision did happen to occur, it's not likely to be "catastrophic."

If quadcopters become common enough that several people are flying them at launches, then, yes, we would probably need to develop rules, formal or informal, to avoid problems. But, as it is right now, the chance of a rocket hitting a single quadcopter recording launches is so remote that there's no need to be concerned about it.

-- Roger

I am sorry, there was nothing meant to be intentionally inflammatory about the original post.

Catastrophic in this sense would mean that IF there was a collision, something would get completely destroyed, and there is a possibility of the rocket trajectory being affected.

Again, yes, the chance of one of the quadcopters getting hit by one of our rockets is incredible low, but, so is the chance of one of our rockets hitting a aircraft. We would still hold off a launch if there was a aircraft in the immediate vicinity.

I have nothing personally against any model aircraft, quadcopters, etc, and I DO appreciate the video that we get from them.
I am just trying to work out if these 'aircraft' are 'aircraft', and if they belong in the same airspace as our rockets.

Salvage-1 said:

Again, yes, the chance of one of the quadcopters getting hit by one of our rockets is incredible low, but, so is the chance of one of our rockets hitting a aircraft.

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But, the consequences of those two events would be quite different. They really aren't comparable. It should be obvious that a rocket hitting a quad copter wouldn't be a big deal (outside of those directly involved) while a rocket hitting an aircraft that is flying by would be a very big deal.

-- Roger

Salvage-1 said:

I have nothing personally against any model aircraft, quadcopters, etc, and I DO appreciate the video that we get from them.
I am just trying to work out if these 'aircraft' are 'aircraft', and if they belong in the same airspace as our rockets.

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The FAA doesn't see them as aircraft why should we! If they did, they wouldn't be working on a new set of rules to govern/limit them.

With that said, any launch organizer has the ability to add additional restrictions they may see fit. I'm hosting a pretty good size launch this coming weekend and I know of at least three quad copters coming. I'm going to have a few rules as to where they can and can't fly. In addition, anyone acting as a LCO or RSO can halt the launch when they see something that's not being done safely. My guess would be the operator would get one warning and if it continues their quad will be grounded.

Wanna see it in action? Come to Airfest this coming weekend (Aug. 29th - Sept. 1st) in Argonia, KS.

Bob Brown

Personally, I think it's a non-issue. Back in the day in SoCal. we launched at an rc field. we stayed at one corner and never had a problem. There was crap all over the sky--never had a problem. If there was an aircraft in the area we held---as far as quads go--if they are hovering for a pic give them one--If they get in the line of fire--LIFE'S A BI*** and then she goes into heat. Quads are controlled ,unlike rockets--to some degree-- so it's in their hands to make the right call. Bottom line , the chances are slim to none for a collision. Now, if I could just find that seeker head I hid last month

I don't have a problem with the quad-copters for the most part. Get great pictures of flights at higher altitude and that's great. Well, now that I think about it, at LDRS33 I found myself looking around and ducking when I heard the buzz of the propellers on a quad-copter, heck, I thought it was a swarm of mosquitoes coming after me!!?!!!

I fly LOTS of RC stuff we do "sWARm's" at our fly ins.. that consists of as MANY flying wings as you can get in the air at the same time. then you try and knock each other out ofthe air...

EVEN TRYING to hit another vehicle in the air is TOUGH the odds of doing it on accidents gotta be TOUGH especially if you are paying attention to your surroundings..

[video=youtube;D-mQjKU7Zu4]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D-mQjKU7Zu4[/video]

[video=youtube;T62WIbIC3lY]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T62WIbIC3lY[/video]

BBrown said:

The FAA doesn't see them as aircraft why should we! If they did, they wouldn't be working on a new set of rules to govern/limit them.

With that said, any launch organizer has the ability to add additional restrictions they may see fit. I'm hosting a pretty good size launch this coming weekend and I know of at least three quad copters coming. I'm going to have a few rules as to where they can and can't fly. In addition, anyone acting as a LCO or RSO can halt the launch when they see something that's not being done safely. My guess would be the operator would get one warning and if it continues their quad will be grounded.

Wanna see it in action? Come to Airfest this coming weekend (Aug. 29th - Sept. 1st) in Argonia, KS.

Bob Brown

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Thanks Bob, this is what I thought originally, it is up to the RSO/LCO and any specific club rules then.

I was not meaning this thread to start any arguements, I was just looking for peoples' points of view on the subject.

stickershock23 said:

I fly LOTS of RC stuff we do "sWARm's" at our fly ins.. that consists of as MANY flying wings as you can get in the air at the same time. then you try and knock each other out ofthe air...

EVEN TRYING to hit another vehicle in the air is TOUGH the odds of doing it on accidents gotta be TOUGH especially if you are paying attention to your surroundings..

Click to expand...

WOW... those videos are cool!