Aurora 38mm MD rocket

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I'd just stick with the peel ply. Besides you already ordered it right? What is going to be your method of application? In other words you going to use brush, roller, etc.?


Alexander Solis

Level 1 - Mariah 54 - CTI-I100 Red Lightning Longburn - 6,345 Feet
 
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ya I already have the peel ply as well as 1" chip brushes which I always use for laminating.
 
bobkrech said:
A heat gun does not give uniform heating, and is really too hot. To properly heat treat an epoxy you need to hold the temperature accurately for about 8 hours.

I have used https://www.solarcomposites.com/composites/carbon fiber sleeves.html#Shrink for Soller Composites with good success for making CF tubes.

Bob
Click to expand...


Pretty sure the heat gun that was aforementioned was in regards to the heat shrink tape and not for the epoxy, in which case the heat gun would work OK. Also there are heat guns that have temperature settings and thus they can be adjusted to get close to a desired temperature. Some can drop down to as low as ~90F (not enough heat for the tape) and can be adjusted up. This model here shows you the temp within 10F increments -> https://www.milwaukeeconnect.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product_27_40028_-1_684528_192181_192137 on a LED display. So again I do not think that the heat gun's temperature will be an issue (if properly adjustable and/or used correctly) and it will work OK for shrinking the heat shrink tape.
 
A5tr0 An0n said:
Pretty sure the heat gun that was aforementioned was in regards to the heat shrink tape and not for the epoxy, in which case the heat gun would work OK. Also there are heat guns that have temperature settings and thus they can be adjusted to get close to a desired temperature. Some can drop down to as low as ~90F (not enough heat for the tape) and can be adjusted up. This model here shows you the temp within 10F increments -> https://www.milwaukeeconnect.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product_27_40028_-1_684528_192181_192137 on a LED display. So again I do not think that the heat gun's temperature will be an issue (if properly adjustable and/or used correctly) and it will work OK for shrinking the heat shrink tape.
Click to expand...

The problem is using it correctly. Also lets face it majority of all heat guns go more than 300 degrees F. Like Bob stated you can not give uniform heating like an oven and if you over heat your epoxy it is certain to boil. It may be okay to just give a quick run to shrink the tape, but you need to keep it going constantly so the tape shrinks completely. Otherwise you only get a partialy shrunk tape.


Alexander Solis

Level 1 - Mariah 54 - CTI-I100 Red Lightning Longburn - 6,345 Feet
 
SinfulDarkLord said:
The problem is using it correctly. Also lets face it majority of all heat guns go more than 300 degrees F. Like Bob stated you can not give uniform heating like an oven and if you over heat your epoxy it is certain to boil. It may be okay to just give a quick run to shrink the tape, but you need to keep it going constantly so the tape shrinks completely. Otherwise you only get a partialy shrunk tape.


Alexander Solis

Level 1 - Mariah 54 - CTI-I100 Red Lightning Longburn - 6,345 Feet
Click to expand...

Using one is not hard - if its too hot just hold the heat gun farther away. I have made a couple 38mm carbon tubes with aeropoxy and the soller shrink tubing, and they turned out great, despite being my first attempts at making my own carbon tubes. Perfectly smooth surface, unlike peel ply, and almost zero dry spots/bubbles.

The soller composite stuff linked before are shrink tubing, not tape, and they shrink quite easily and uniformly with pretty minimal heat - you could almost even use a strong hair dryer. They release really easily too, just slice down the side with an xacto knife and it slides right off.
 
RocketHunter said:
Using one is not hard - if its too hot just hold the heat gun farther away. I have made a couple 38mm carbon tubes with aeropoxy and the soller shrink tubing, and they turned out great, despite being my first attempts at making my own carbon tubes. Perfectly smooth surface, unlike peel ply, and almost zero dry spots/bubbles.

The soller composite stuff linked before are shrink tubing, not tape, and they shrink quite easily and uniformly with pretty minimal heat - you could almost even use a strong hair dryer. They release really easily too, just slice down the side with an xacto knife and it slides right off.
Click to expand...

There is a big difference when using heat shrink tape. Unlike heat shrink tubing from soller composites it applies compressive force, which probably removes more excess resin and makes the laminate flatter, which of course you get a thinner thickness and is lighter. When using a heat gun against heat shrink tape. It needs to be uniform and constant so the tape shrinks completely. Heat too much and your epoxy will bubble. Heat too little and you wont get the full effect of the heat shrink tape.

To get a better idea of how they each work. Take a wet mop for example. If you just squeeze it with the palm of your hand its not going to squeeze that much water out. However, if you twist it, which is how the shrink tape works. You will squeeze out mostly all the water out.


Alexander Solis

Level 1 - Mariah 54 - CTI-I100 Red Lightning Longburn - 6,345 Feet
 
SinfulDarkLord said:
The problem is using it correctly. Also lets face it majority of all heat guns go more than 300 degrees F. Like Bob stated you can not give uniform heating like an oven and if you over heat your epoxy it is certain to boil. It may be okay to just give a quick run to shrink the tape, but you need to keep it going constantly so the tape shrinks completely. Otherwise you only get a partialy shrunk tape.


Alexander Solis

Level 1 - Mariah 54 - CTI-I100 Red Lightning Longburn - 6,345 Feet
Click to expand...

I think the problem is using a "not so proper," heat gun with "not so proper," techniques. Holding a 1000F (or whatever high temp. yours blows at) heat gun to a tube to shrink the tape for a period of time, especially at a relatively local area and thinking everything will be ok…….. well that is just bad technique IMO.
When using higher than needed temps I would hold the gun farther back and move it around to apply heat. Also you do not need tons of compression force with tubes (the tape I use has 7lbs max force).
It really is not THAT hard to do and slightly less compression force (resultant of the shrink not a max compression force) on the tube is not that big of a deal IMO (assuming that everything else is done correctly). For slightly more "accurate" heat distribution you can build a simple jig with some gears and a crank, if it is a concern. Cheaper than building an oven.

You do not need an oven for the tape (I am not saying an oven is not ideal) and it can be done well with a heat gun, as far as amateur tubes go.

Practically ALL heat guns go well over 300F but enough go UNDER 300F and finding them is not a problem; here is another one -> https://www.coleparmer.com/Product/Proheat_Varitemp_Heat_Gun_130_to_840F_120V/UX-03033-00?referred_id=778&gclid=COmF1aTiwsACFSMV7AodbQoARA.

Buy the right gun, use the right techniques, and you will not "boil off the epoxy." BTW you should only really need around 300F to get max shrink force on most polyester shrink tapes.
 
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Ok I see that it's possible to do. I'm just going to stick with wrapping it with the peel ply and leaving it. UPS came early today and dropped off the epoxy. I still have to get some 1.4oz fiberglass as the veil layer. I'm thinking of rolling a fiberglass tube first to get used to rolling an actual tube on the mandrel. I've only laminated tubes before and never have actually rolled one.
 
conman13 said:
Ok I see that it's possible to do. I'm just going to stick with wrapping it with the peel ply and leaving it. UPS came early today and dropped off the epoxy. I still have to get some 1.4oz fiberglass as the veil layer. I'm thinking of rolling a fiberglass tube first to get used to rolling an actual tube on the mandrel. I've only laminated tubes before and never have actually rolled one.
Click to expand...

After just one year of experience, it is not that hard to do. If anything though I will say carbon is much easier to work with than with fiberglass.

Good luck


Alexander Solis

Level 1 - Mariah 54 - CTI-I100 Red Lightning Longburn - 6,345 Feet
 
Ooooh nice, can you please provide a link. I'd like to check it out.


Alexander Solis

Level 1 - Mariah 54 - CTI-I100 Red Lightning Longburn - 6,345 Feet
 
Nevermind I saw the link on the bottles lol. Holy cow 75cps mixed. This epoxy may be weak at 2,000 psi, but lets face it its only when its by itself. Definitely an epoxy worth trying.


Alexander Solis

Level 1 - Mariah 54 - CTI-I100 Red Lightning Longburn - 6,345 Feet
 
I just saw its pot life is like 3 minutes. Is this resin just for practice or you actually going to use it for the whole shebang?


Alexander Solis

Level 1 - Mariah 54 - CTI-I100 Red Lightning Longburn - 6,345 Feet
 
Last edited:
SinfulDarkLord said:
I just saw its pot life is like 3 minutes. Is this resin just for practice or you actually going to use it for the whole shebang?


Alexander Solis

Level 1 - Mariah 54 - CTI-I100 Red Lightning Longburn - 6,345 Feet
Click to expand...


No it has a 30min pot life.

ImageUploadedByRocketry Forum1409697052.646818.jpg

Your probably looking at the 1:1 with their #11 hardener.
 
I guess I didnt see that. Thats looks like a nice epoxy.


Alexander Solis

Level 1 - Mariah 54 - CTI-I100 Red Lightning Longburn - 6,345 Feet
 
To clarify my previous post....

I use a heat gun to shrink Soller Composites heat shrink tubing around my layup. The epoxy system I use needs 8 hours of oven heating at 250F to cure and acquire the desired tensile strength and Tg. This can not be done with a heat gun.

Bob
 
Ok well I rolled a fiberglass tune today and used the heat gun on it at a fair distance away. Everything worked out well except that the tape holding the Mylar down must have shriveled up causing some wrinkles in the tube. I don't really car about the tube because it was just some cheap bondo glass. Next week I think I will roll the carbon kevlar tube. I will get some pics up later.
 
oedered another eggfinder today so I will be good to go for tracking.
 
conman13 said:
Ok well I rolled a fiberglass tune today and used the heat gun on it at a fair distance away. Everything worked out well except that the tape holding the Mylar down must have shriveled up causing some wrinkles in the tube. I don't really car about the tube because it was just some cheap bondo glass. Next week I think I will roll the carbon kevlar tube. I will get some pics up later.
Click to expand...

Were you using heat shrink tape? If your not going to do anything of that sort I would not use the heat gun. The tape's adhesive holding the mylar must have weakened when you heated it.


Alexander Solis

Level 1 - Mariah 54 - CTI-I100 Red Lightning Longburn - 6,345 Feet
 
SinfulDarkLord said:
Were you using heat shrink tape? If your not going to do anything of that sort I would not use the heat gun. The tape's adhesive holding the mylar must have weakened when you heated it.


Alexander Solis

Level 1 - Mariah 54 - CTI-I100 Red Lightning Longburn - 6,345 Feet
Click to expand...

No heat shrink tape. Definitely won't make that mistake again. I plan on ordering the veil layer of glass and maybe rolling another practice tube next weekend and then in 2 weeks roll the aurora tube.
 
conman13 said:
No heat shrink tape. Definitely won't make that mistake again. I plan on ordering the veil layer of glass and maybe rolling another practice tube next weekend and then in 2 weeks roll the aurora tube.
Click to expand...

If anything keep practicing on glass until your happy with the outcome. This way your aurora tube will be easy to do.


Alexander Solis

Level 1 - Mariah 54 - CTI-I100 Red Lightning Longburn - 6,345 Feet
 
SinfulDarkLord said:
If anything keep practicing on glass until your happy with the outcome. This way your aurora tube will be easy to do.


Alexander Solis

Level 1 - Mariah 54 - CTI-I100 Red Lightning Longburn - 6,345 Feet
Click to expand...

I'm going to.
 
Well the tube came out perfectly minus the wrinkles. No pinholes and no dry spots and the peel ply left it nice and smooth. Next weekend I am going to make another and hopefully the weekend after that roll the aurora tube. I'll upload pics when I get home from school.
 
Ok well I just figured out that loki is coming out with a new motor for the 1200 case. A j1127T I believe it was. When it passes the certification and the motor file is released I will see if I can use it in the aurora. All I know is that it brought a 3" 6lb rocket close to Mach 2!!!!
 
Last edited:
conman13 said:
Ok well I just figured out that loki is coming out with a new motor for the 1200 case. A j1127T I believe it was. When it passes the certification and the motor file is released I will see if I can use it in the aurora. All I know is that it brought a 3" 6lb rocket close to Mach 2!!!!
Click to expand...

Geesh, nice motor... In my email notification, it said lollipop is coming out with a new motor. I guess that's what you edited.
 

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