WildMan Sport build instructions thread.

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CzTeacherMan said:
I was running around my house with a bare rump before I read the rest of your post. My wife didn't mind, but the neighbors were crying. Huh.
;-)
Click to expand...

At least they weren't trying to get in and follow you like a pack of rabid Badgers (the animal, not the football fans)...

Adrian
 
THIS THREAD IS PERFECT!!! My LDRS Drag Race Special Punisher is going to be my first FG build and this already answers so many questions. Naturally, I have a couple more ;)


-I see the "encapsulate with epoxy" technique a lot on these builds for the shock cord at the motor mount. Is there any advantage (or any reason not) to have a knot in the shock cord just below the mmt? So on the off chance that the gobs of epoxy don't hold it in, the knot would just butt up against the CR?
-I've heard so many good things about Rocketpoxy for fillets; if I recall, you let it set up for ~30 minutes until it starts getting thick, then lay it on. Do I need to add microballons or should I just lay it down for the fillets?
-I have both JBWeld and RocketPoxy. Is there a good reason to use one vs. the other for the MMT?
-Is there any reason not to do internal fillets?
-Can you tell me more about the Y-harness? Why not run a single piece of Kevlar from mmt to NC?


Thanks so much for this thread, it explains so much.
 
ActingLikeAKid said:
THIS THREAD IS PERFECT!!! My LDRS Drag Race Special Punisher is going to be my first FG build and this already answers so many questions. Naturally, I have a couple more ;)


1.-I see the "encapsulate with epoxy" technique a lot on these builds for the shock cord at the motor mount. Is there any advantage (or any reason not) to have a knot in the shock cord just below the mmt? So on the off chance that the gobs of epoxy don't hold it in, the knot would just butt up against the CR?

2.-I've heard so many good things about Rocketpoxy for fillets; if I recall, you let it set up for ~30 minutes until it starts getting thick, then lay it on. Do I need to add microballons or should I just lay it down for the fillets?

3.-I have both JBWeld and RocketPoxy. Is there a good reason to use one vs. the other for the MMT?

4.-Is there any reason not to do internal fillets?

5.-Can you tell me more about the Y-harness? Why not run a single piece of Kevlar from mmt to NC?


Thanks so much for this thread, it explains so much.
Click to expand...

1. No knot needed. In 14 yrs of doing this & instructing others on "how to'' I have never seen it fail. Even on large projects with 4in motor tubes flying N motors. All the force is in 'pull', not 'peel'. shock cord is pulling up through airframe.

2. NEVER, EVER add ANYTHING to Rocketpoxy. It already has all the fillers needed in it. Adding anything else just weakens it. Timing is the key for successful use of RP. Totally time & temperature dependent, when mixed and used.
It goes through 3 basic phases.
Using 70 degrees ambient temp: first 15-20 minutes, runny enough for normal epoxy glueing of parts. 2nd 15-30-40 minutes, stiff enough to be used for external fillets, placed in V-groove, can be pulled with tool and hold fillet shape. 3rd. 40-60 minutes, can be rolled into strings or balls and used like epoxy clay.
Best mixed on cardboard. run 2 equal lines of resin & hardener along side each other. Add few drops of color if using. Pull, scrape,& mix just like using Bondo until color is same. Spread out on cardboard like cake frosting to allow air bubbles to rise and escape. [for several minutes when doing fillets] then use. Higher or lower ambient temp will result in shorter or longer cure times. At 85-90 outside, it will speed up considerably. Click on pic to see air bubbles rising. You want them gone when doing fillets or they will appear in them.

DSCN5747.jpg

3. On small projects with 29mm motor mounts, there is not enough ''heat soak" [transfer of heat from motor to retainer] to really matter. I use RP or JB. Depends on what I have already mixed to do something else, just use left over to put retainer on. For 38mm and up size motors I use JB for it's high temp qualities. [this is my opinion only] I have never lost a retainer & I use dozens of them.

4. Once again, small project. If you do "double dip" method on fin root when installing fins, there really is no need for internal fillets, as long as you do nice externals. The rocket doesn't weigh enough to exert enough force to cause damage by knocking fin loose......unless you hit a paved road or rock in field. In that case, I would rather knock a fin loose, instead of breaking a fin. I save internal fillets for larger heavier projects. Or in some cases where a small rocket will be using the largest motor made to fly. [38's & up.]

5.Actually you can just run the shock cord on one side of MM tube. Many of us do, I do sometimes. Only on small stuff. Using a "Y"-harness keeps the fincan falling straight, not tilted to one side, which a single cord does.:smile:


PS I'm the guy who was in the red truck that pulled over to let you pass on the field at Camden last weekend. We briefly met at the flight line. I flew my Punisher Sport SS [38mm motor & Up graded NC] with a GPS installed. You are lucky to fly at one of the oldest clubs around, with some of the best fliers & builders in the country....by the way.
 
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Good info here, thanks. I'm a big fan of easier maintenance, so I'll probably add an eye bolt to attach my shock cord to. This should make replacement much easier. Other than that, and one fin being slightly munched, my Punisher Sport is a pretty cool little kit. Looking forward to my first fiberglass build.
 
Frywrxz , CaveDuck and I are all getting PunisheR Sports.. let the building commence !

Thanks CJ for sharing your technique. . I always learn something

Kenny
 
blackjack2564 said:
1. No knot needed. In 14 yrs of doing this & instructing others on "how to'' I have never seen it fail. Even on large projects with 4in motor tubes flying N motors. All the force is in 'pull', not 'peel'. shock cord is pulling up through airframe.
Click to expand...

got it :)

blackjack2564 said:
2. NEVER, EVER add ANYTHING to Rocketpoxy. It already has all the fillers needed in it. Adding anything else just weakens it. Timing is the key for successful use of RP. Totally time & temperature dependent, when mixed and used.
It goes through 3 basic phases.
Click to expand...

better information than I even knew to ask for. Thanks!


blackjack2564 said:
4. Once again, small project. If you do "double dip" method on fin root when installing fins, there really is no need for internal fillets, as long as you do nice externals. The rocket doesn't weigh enough to exert enough force to cause damage by knocking fin loose......unless you hit a paved road or rock in field. In that case, I would rather knock a fin loose, instead of breaking a fin. I save internal fillets for larger heavier projects. Or in some cases where a small rocket will be using the largest motor made to fly.
Click to expand...

cool. My next build after this is going to be the PML Small Endeavour. I'll save my true internal fillets for that.

blackjack2564 said:
5.Actually you can just run the shock cord on one side of MM tube. Many of us do, I do sometimes. Only on small stuff. Using a "Y"-harness keeps the fincan falling straight, not tilted to one side, which a single cord does.:smile:
Click to expand...
so if I want to do the "y", then it's a loop on the nose, loop in the fincan, and a long section to connect them? Should the chute "float" on the middle section?


blackjack2564 said:
PS I'm the guy who was in the red truck that pulled over to let you pass on the field at Camden last weekend. We briefly met at the flight line. I flew my Punisher Sport SS [38mm motor & Up graded NC] with a GPS installed. You are lucky to fly at one of the oldest clubs around, with some of the best fliers & builders in the country....by the way.
Click to expand...
I remember that, it was good meeting you. Thanks for letting me by- I had a moment of "does he have enough room? Should I stop? What's the... Oh. He's letting me by...." I was hustling to get on the road; the previous time, I missed the nap window and I had two VERY cranky twins for a two hour drive to Charlotte.
This time they were asleep well before I hit 77. Only problem was that they woke up 5 minutes from home SUPER EXCITED AND READY TO GO and I was dead tired. :)

Thank you so much for the tips! Hope to see you next month. Camden is a great site and a great bunch of folks.
 
Jim,
What are your thoughts on using a sport as a 2 stage with a junior booster?
It seems like a 29mm motor mount would make it easier to feed the igniter wires through for an airstart
Lots of potential combinations with a 38mm booster and a 29mm sustainer (thinking a J354 to a H53 mellow)
would it be safe to notch the fin tabs and recess the lower centering in to allow for an interstage coupler?
 
vance2loud said:
Jim,
What are your thoughts on using a sport as a 2 stage with a junior booster?
It seems like a 29mm motor mount would make it easier to feed the igniter wires through for an airstart
Lots of potential combinations with a 38mm booster and a 29mm sustainer (thinking a J354 to a H53 mellow)
would it be safe to notch the fin tabs and recess the lower centering in to allow for an interstage coupler?
Click to expand...


Yes, it would work with a bit of care. With all those slots in airframe, you must support it while gluing in the fins or it will "sag" causing the interstage coupler to "grab", like a Chinese finger trap. Slots in spiral wound tubes release tension.

You should wrap a coupler with wax-paper or cellophane [from Tv-dinner cover etc.], packing tape, insert in place while fins are glued on MM tube. Recess the fins by 2.25-2.50 in.
I would first measure how far up tabs get removed......put tape on inside of slot area to be filled, then fill them with thickened epoxy. Or cut tabs off so they "engage" the slots, but don't go into airframe . This is what I did on the 3in. Punisher 2-stage.

https://www.rocketryforum.com/showt...her-quot-Bullet-to-the-Head-quot-75mm-to-54mm

Once all the external fillets are in place, they should support the airframe and prevent it from ''grabbing'' interstage coupler.
Then again on an airframe this small ...it may not be an issue at all. I've done it on larger projects where it was. Quick check with coupler will determine.
 
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I used a 2 quart wide mouth mason jar (with roughly a quart of water) to stand the nose cone in while waiting for the epoxy to cure(Kevlar loop).
Rex
 
What did other folks do for rail buttons? Just self-tap the bolts? Did you use any wood behind them?
 
Just having fun? No need, round over edges so they hold paint better.

Want more performance? Yes..here's an easy fin bevel made from scraps of straight wood & couple of clamps. I use it all the time on G-10
Post 8 .
https://www.rocketryforum.com/showt...t-seal-of-approval-build!&p=534237#post534237

Cheap motor retention, next post in same thread. By the way, this was the first use of Rocketpoxy on Forum, John gave me the Samples to play with. If you skim through after this post, there are many, many posts relevant to it's use & one long one by the manufacturer himself. J Olivich. Never add anything to it. [other than dye]
 
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little something to get straight fins.
Rex
 

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Hi all...

I just stopped by Wildman to pick up some motors since I live fairly near, and Tim convinced me to purchase a Warrior Jr. kit. I am just a BAR starting back out and have about 6 kits under my belt since starting back up. I'm slowly working on it at home (my first fiberglass kit...first fiberglass anything) and really taking my time on it. But I have one question for those who may know. Mine came with 3 bulkheads... 2 that were two layered with eyebolts (AV Bay I assume...once I get more experience to figure that out) and a third "single layer" bulkhead with no hole in it. Is this for the nosecone? My nosecone is hollow with a coupler to glue into it. I assume it would go into the nosecone and the coupler would seat into the cone with the bulkhead on the bottom? Thanks for your help and this thread has been invaluable!

Tracy Ramsey
 
Tracy- you are correct about the bulkheads. The third one is for the nose cone. So it would be nose cone, coupler, and then bulkhead on the end of the coupler.
 
Tracy, I wouldn't glue the bulkhead into the nosecone.
If you ever want to add a tracker or need to add weight you will want access in there.
Look around some of the similar build threads on here and you will find lots of ideas for how to create a separate Bay in the nose.
 
Zauskycop said:
Hi all...

I just stopped by Wildman to pick up some motors since I live fairly near, and Tim convinced me to purchase a Warrior Jr. kit. I am just a BAR starting back out and have about 6 kits under my belt since starting back up. I'm slowly working on it at home (my first fiberglass kit...first fiberglass anything) and really taking my time on it. But I have one question for those who may know. Mine came with 3 bulkheads... 2 that were two layered with eyebolts (AV Bay I assume...once I get more experience to figure that out) and a third "single layer" bulkhead with no hole in it. Is this for the nosecone? My nosecone is hollow with a coupler to glue into it. I assume it would go into the nosecone and the coupler would seat into the cone with the bulkhead on the bottom? Thanks for your help and this thread has been invaluable!

Tracy Ramsey
Click to expand...

Glad to see another Wildman "user". But you know what happens after trying the Jr. kits?! The addiction only gets worse!!

IMG_6510.jpg
 
Yeah, my first MPR...well, sorta second...building an Argent also. Hence why I stopped for motors. But it appears a dangerous path, and these are a bit harder to hide from the wife ;-).

So, you would recommend leaving that baffle plate off and just running the kevlar loop with nut attached, and epoxied into the nose cone? I also noticed that (unlike any instruction sheet I've seen) this now has a metal tip to the nosecone and that is screwed onto the end. I'm guessing that epoxying that screw in won't hurt anything?

Tracy Ramsey
 
Zauskycop said:
So, you would recommend leaving that baffle plate off and just running the kevlar loop with nut attached, and epoxied into the nose cone?
Click to expand...

My personal way of doing it is using the av bay sleds at ape-rc.com. This is a personal preference, however, and not "the right way". Yes, you can epoxy the screw in, or use expanding foam to hold it and the kevlar loop in.
 
If you have the metal tip, you can unscrew it and replace the screw with an eyebolt or a piece of threaded rod running the full length to turn the nose into a tracker bay (just keep the tracker antenna away from the threaded rod).
If you go with either of these suggestions make sure to loctite the nose on.

https://www.rocketryforum.com/showt...ight-HPR-AV-bay-designs&p=1521534#post1521534
gives you a rough idea of what I mean
 
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Zauskycop said:
Yeah, my first MPR...well, sorta second...building an Argent also. Hence why I stopped for motors. But it appears a dangerous path, and these are a bit harder to hide from the wife ;-).
Click to expand...

oh goodness, let's not open THAT can of worms again! ;)

Zauskycop said:
So, you would recommend leaving that baffle plate off and just running the kevlar loop with nut attached, and epoxied into the nose cone? I also noticed that (unlike any instruction sheet I've seen) this now has a metal tip to the nosecone and that is screwed onto the end. I'm guessing that epoxying that screw in won't hurt anything?
Click to expand...
If you think you might want to have an av-bay at some point (for an altimeter or tracker), the bulkplate is useful; I have some recommendations about that in a second.
If you aren't planning on stuffing it with electronics, then you can either use the epoxy as Jim suggests above or get an eyebolt and replace the screw in the nosecone with an eyebolt. When you get the eyebolt, get a couple of nuts and screw them together against each other to create a solid platform for the washer to sit on (if that makes sense) - otherwise, as you screw the eyebolt into the tip, the nut holding the washer on will keep turning and it'll never get tight. There's a great tip over on my thread
https://www.rocketryforum.com/showt...-Punisher-quot-LDRS-Special-quot-Novice-Build
on how to make a PVC tool to screw in the eyebolt.

If you DO want to have an av-bay at some point, then glue the bulkhead in to the bottom of the coupler. You'll also need a way to attach the nosecone to the coupler. 3 plastic screws or plastic rivets works well (Tim sells the rivets and they work great. The advantage of plastic is that if there is a bad event, the plastic will fail before the fiberglass). What I'm ultimately going to do is make a sled like the one djs mentions below. Then I'll take the eyebolt out of the tip, attach it to the bulkplate, and attach my kevlar to that. But for now, I just tied a loop of kevlar and ran that out the hole in the middle of the bulkplate (if that makes sense). If not, I'll take pictures later. :)
 
Some really interesting ideas. I like the tracker bay idea, or at least the intial design of it. Until I actually install the tracker, I can probably get away with an allthread rod running from the nose, through the coupler and to the bulkhead, holding that bulkhead and coupler to the nosecone. Very simple and clean...and just have an eyebolt also on the bulkhead for the eventual shock cord.

I do eventually want an av-bay, so I will set that up to put the electronics in later and I can then launch the rocket with the motor's ejection charge splitting things at the av-bay, use my jolly logic for a chute release and just rivet/tape the nosecone in place solid for the time being until I learn enough for DD? Does this sound feasible?

Tracy Ramsey
 
Zauskycop said:
I do eventually want an av-bay, so I will set that up to put the electronics in later and I can then launch the rocket with the motor's ejection charge splitting things at the av-bay, use my jolly logic for a chute release and just rivet/tape the nosecone in place solid for the time being until I learn enough for DD? Does this sound feasible?
Click to expand...

This is what a lot of people do. As you get into DD, you could fly it with altimeters, but no charges hooked up- just to get the feel for how the electronics work.

Where will you be flying at? If it's a club somewhere, there's probably people onsite who can also give you some hands on explanations as well.
 
Flying this weekend with Prairie State in Dekalb..lots of HPR there so yes, they will have a lot of questions from me!

Tracy Ramsey
 
Zauskycop said:
Flying this weekend with Prairie State in Dekalb..lots of HPR there so yes, they will have a lot of questions from me!
Click to expand...

you're pretty close to me then- you might want to also check out wooshrocketry.org and tripoliwisconsin.org
 

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