Primer problem

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jef955

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I want to change colors. I thoroughly sand everything off, wipe with alcohol, let set a few hours, spray primer over well cured (2 years?)paint, and end up with this...NC wrinkled primer.jpgTube wrinkled primer.jpg



Weather sunny, (sprayed in the shade) 83 degrees humidity 45%.

Thoughts?

Thanks for any help/suggestions..
 
It looks as if you have some red (or orange) paint still left under the primer. It also looks like you used a high-build primer. Filler-primers typically are quick drying lacquer base. If they go over enamel paint, which I assume your red/orange is, it will wrinkle. You would do better moving away from a high-build primer and just use a primer-sealer or cheap enamel-based primer as they would be more compatible.
 
I'll bet you're right...I never thought about it being solvent/enamel based...
 
How do you tell which are enamel, and which are laquer? I looked in Walmart tonight, and they don't tell you on the can. It looks like the one (Rustoleum in the bonus can)I have been using is, along with the filler ones, but I couldn't tell with some of them. Anyone have any ideas ?
 
How do you tell which are enamel, and which are laquer? I looked in Walmart tonight, and they don't tell you on the can. It looks like the one (Rustoleum in the bonus can)I have been using is, along with the filler ones, but I couldn't tell with some of them. Anyone have any ideas ?

When in doubt call the manufacturer. Most of the automotive early stage primers are lacquer. The Rustoleum 2X primer is enamel.
 
How do you tell which are enamel, and which are laquer? I looked in Walmart tonight, and they don't tell you on the can. It looks like the one (Rustoleum in the bonus can)I have been using is, along with the filler ones, but I couldn't tell with some of them. Anyone have any ideas ?

Most cans don't tell you anymore... just part of the general "dumbing down" IMHO... they figure most people are "too stupid" to understand the difference anyway, so why bother printing it on the can??

The thing is, due to VOC regulations imposed by the EPA, MOST paints for "general household/consumer use" nowdays is some form of an alkyd enamel... There are different formulations of enamel, and the alkyd is pretty much the cheapest one. Some are better than others, and of course various brands tweak their particular products for their "target demographic" (usually DIY-er homeowners wanting to paint lawn furniture or handi-crafts or projects and stuff). Some of these "tweaks" aren't good things or don't suit our purposes well, but then again, we're NOT their "target customer"...

Nine times out of ten, if the can DOESN'T say what the paint formulation is, you can pretty much bet it's standard cheapo "alkyd enamel"... Basically, if it's a lacquer, it SHOULD say "Lacquer" somewhere on the can, because it's incompatible with the standard issue alkyd enamels (or even better enamels).

If one is still not sure, you can basically tell what you've got by reading the instructions on the back of the can... if it says "recoat within 30 minutes or after 24 hours" (or words to that effect, some brands may say "within 20 minutes or after 48 hours" you can be pretty darn sure it's a "standard issue" alkyd enamel.

If it says "recoat anytime", "dry to the touch in 10 minutes" (or a similar short time frame, maybe 30 minutes to an hour), or "fully cured within 1-4 hours" or "overnight", you can be fairly certain that it's a lacquer type product... The lacquers have "hotter" (more volatile) solvents, which is what makes them dry so fast... thus "recoat anytime" capability, and a fast cure, sometimes in an hour or less or overnight at the most... problem is, EPA has strictly limited this stuff due to those VOLATILE organic solvents (VOC's) which they don't like, thus limiting the "consumer paints" to alkyd enamel formulations (for the most part) which use softer, "cooler" solvents with lower VOC's...

Of course you can still get lacquers, but they're harder to find, and the choices more limited... the EPA regulations are geared to prevent every Thom, Dick, and Harry from buying cans of the stuff to paint lawnmowers and Jimmy's wagon, and the lawn furniture out back, and to keep the taggers and huffers from blowing the stuff all over creation... Testors paints are still lacquers IIRC, as are some of the "appliance paints" and other "specialty stuff" like that, and of course Duplicolor, which is primarily aimed at the shadetree mechanic types fixing their own cars, comes in both lacquer and enamel formulations...

The main thing is, BE VERY CAREFUL to read the can and ALL the instructions on it, and follow them as closely as possible. Some paints are more "forgiving" than others... for instance, I've NEVER had a problem with Walmart Colorplace despite it being about the cheapest paint you can get, because it's pretty darn forgiving stuff... Krylon, on the other hand, if you look at it the wrong way it'll go wonky on you... it's just unforgiving stuff... sometimes you play by all the rules or go even further to baby it and it STILL goes wonky... that's why I avoid it if at all possible...

Anyway, the thing to remember is, IF IN DOUBT, TEST! Doing a test pattern on some spare body tube or cardboard or whatever is WAY CHEAPER AND EASIER than getting halfway through a paint job just to realize that you've shot a lacquer over your finely sanded ENAMEL primer and had it go all "alligator skin" on you and ruin the whole thing...

Later! OL JR :)
 
If one is still not sure, you can basically tell what you've got by reading the instructions on the back of the can... if it says "recoat within 30 minutes or after 24 hours" (or words to that effect, some brands may say "within 20 minutes or after 48 hours" you can be pretty darn sure it's a "standard issue" alkyd enamel.

If it says "recoat anytime", "dry to the touch in 10 minutes" (or a similar short time frame, maybe 30 minutes to an hour), or "fully cured within 1-4 hours" or "overnight", you can be fairly certain that it's a lacquer type product...

+1.
 
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