LOC Warlock questions

You could just buy the Door Knob. It's 10" longer, one more fin, and 54mm mount.

I've owned both. I bought the Door Knob this time around because there are so many more motor options in 54mm.

JDcluster said:

The 38 mm Motor mount in the Warloc is a waste!
Put at least a 54 mm in it.


JD

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I'm building a booster, the tube was from the Warloc.
The rest has been upgraded.


JD

ChrisAttebery said:

You could just buy the Door Knob. It's 10" longer, one more fin, and 54mm mount.

I've owned both. I bought the Door Knob this time around because there are so many more motor options in 54mm.

Click to expand...

I finally ordered a Mini Magg about a week ago, mostly so I can fly 29mm motor eject safely and hit safe altitudes on H's. I'm also going to fly reloadables, although I'm still trying to decide between getting an aerotech 29/40-120 and 29/180 setups fore level 1 and general flying, or getting CTI 3 grain and 6 grain hardware. The CTI stuff seems to be much easier/faster to reload and having more than 3 HPR options would be nice, but the aerotech reloads cost less from Bay Area Rocketry where I'll get motors. Any suggestions on whether to get AT or CTI? This would be 29mm for sure.

I also think I'll maybe get a warlock or doorknob (probably a doorknob) this winter and use a stratologger to make it apogee deploy (and maybe dual event later) so I don't have to worry about motor eject.

Finally, is there any rocksim motor data for CTI 29mm motors?

Get both! My 29mm hardware collection is a two sets of Aerotech closures, the 180, 240, and 360 cases, a CTI closure, 2 spacers, and 3/6 grain cases. I picked almost all of it up used and estimate that I probably spent about $200-$250 on the lot of it. I fly mostly AT 180 and 240 case reloads that I get on sale online, but the CTI hardware was cheap and the reloads are available at the launches that I go to. They are certainly more expensive but some propellants are better than AT's and others don't even have an AT equivalent. If money is your biggest concern, get used AT hardware on here and then wait for Black Saturday.

Don't be afraid to call LOC and as for a 54 MM motor mount. Then you can use it for both Level 1 and 2. Electronics (dual deploy) are not required by NAR for Level 2. You'll find the LOC staff more than accommodating.

They now sell a bare-bones Phoenix in a 5.5" airframe. The kit came with the short nose cone. They switched it out for me with the long nose cone that, to me, looks so much nicer on this rocket.

You made a great decision. It is an awesome and versatile flyer. I have flown my Magg all on CTI 38mm 3 grain motors but that is about to change. I bought a Loki 240 and a 740 case so I can fly it on H's and J's, plan to pick up the 480 case soon too. I just can't wait to see the kick in the backside the Loki J will provide. It will straight up mule foot it to 3500' or so. Yes, the CTI loads are on Rocksim but I found not to trust the apogee times for squatty rockets like the Magg. I generally subtract a second or two from what was suggested.

Since I can't find the 29mm data, I'll probably set it to 6 seconds since I'm aiming for around 1000' I added a base drag cone to the tail in rocksim.

Tin Man, why do you need the 54 mm for Level 2, you can get Level 2 with a 38mm.


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Lowpuller said:

Tin Man, why do you need the 54 mm for Level 2, you can get Level 2 with a 38mm.

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True--you can. 38mm will give you G to J--so L0 to L2. 54mm, however, will give you I-L--from L1 up much further into the L2 range. Adapting down to 38 opens up even more options. And it's a quite valid rationalization for a hardware purchase--one of the most time-respected ones out there, in fact!

Hell, you can take it a step further and go for 75mm, adapting down to 54, to give you the full L2 range, if you really wanted.

Not that I did that or anything.

I'm probably lying.


Later!

--Coop

Coop said:

True--you can. 38mm will give you G to J--so L0 to L2. 54mm, however, will give you I-L--from L1 up much further into the L2 range. Adapting down to 38 opens up even more options. And it's a quite valid rationalization for a hardware purchase--one of the most time-respected ones out there, in fact!

Hell, you can take it a step further and go for 75mm, adapting down to 54, to give you the full L2 range, if you really wanted.

Not that I did that or anything.

I'm probably lying.


Later!

--Coop

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I agree! 54mm is the minimum for a L2 rocket if you want to fly any range of L2 motors. My L2 cert rocket was 54mm and I am so glad I made it that big. Now I'm building a slightly smaller rocket with a 75mm MMT. The first one was just shy of 10K ft with a Pro54 6GXL L935. Have to top 10K with the new one! and probably 15K also.

I think I'll get one rocket for L2 and L3, so maybe a 75mm LOC Bruiser or comparable.

By the way, I decided to get Pro29 3G and 6G casings and hardware for L1, mostly so I have a wide range of motors compared to 29/180 and because they are much faster to reload. Also, Skidmarks. I'm planning on flying a 29mm H123 or H160 Skid for cert if all goes well.

What thickness of plywood are the Warlock fins made from?


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Regarding skid marks.... I counter with an AT 360/720/spacer set and darkmatter.

Or loki spitfires.

What are Loki spitfires like?

Also, is it true you can't use spacers in Aerotech 29mm casings, only 38 and up? The ability to fly the full impulse range with only 2 cases was partly why I chose Pro29. Other reason is I want to fly HPR on my G-force and red max with 29mm mounts.

SCrocketfan said:

What are Loki spitfires like?

Also, is it true you can't use spacers in Aerotech 29mm casings, only 38 and up? The ability to fly the full impulse range with only 2 cases was partly why I chose Pro29. Other reason is I want to fly HPR on my G-force and red max with 29mm mounts.

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Awesome, as are all the Loki loads you might want to give them a look I did my TRA lvl 2 and NAR lvl 1 and soon my NAR lvl 2 with Loki. The price per impulse is cheaper and the cases are very reasonably priced, and a big part is 9 of the 38mm loads are hazmat free. Very easy to assemble and clean, and once TRA gets a clear winow to compleat the certification testing, a whole bunch of new loads will be availible.



TA

thobin said:

Awesome, as are all the Loki loads you might want to give them a look I did my TRA lvl 2 and NAR lvl 1 and soon my NAR lvl 2 with Loki. The price per impulse is cheaper and the cases are very reasonably priced, and a big part is 9 of the 38mm loads are hazmat free. Very easy to assemble and clean, and once TRA gets a clear winow to compleat the certification testing, a whole bunch of new loads will be availible

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And has 38mm H and I motors with no hazmat fee.... perfect for a magg.

SC unfortunately lives in CA where Loki's don't exist. That's a shame too, the H144 and I405 are almost made for the Magg.

grouch said:

SC unfortunately lives in CA where Loki's don't exist. That's a shame too, the H144 and I405 are almost made for the Magg.

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Noooooo! Oh the humanity! You know it's a shame that the Peoples Republic of Kalifornia have seen fit to impose a prohibitive tax under the guise of fire prevention on such a small niche of a hobby. There for making it all than much harder to generate real tax revenue by the sale of such a fine produce as Loki motors in their beautiful state, shame, truly a shame. :sigh:



TA

1/4"

Lowpuller said:

What thickness of plywood are the Warlock fins made from?


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I'm still considering building either a warlock or doorknob soon and was wondering about using motor eject (maybe with a cable cutter later on.) Is it worth upgrading to 54 just because 54mm I's have more powerful ejection charges than 38mm? Or are 38mm H's and I's powerful enough to reliably deploy? I'd be using either 1 grain Cesaroni 54mm motors or 1-3 grain 38mm. The 38mm H and I options seem better than the 54mm I's. I'm mostly interested in flying L1 motors right now.

Thanks for the help!

SCrocketfan said:

I'm still considering building either a warlock or doorknob soon and was wondering about using motor eject (maybe with a cable cutter later on.) Is it worth upgrading to 54 just because 54mm I's have more powerful ejection charges than 38mm? Or are 38mm H's and I's powerful enough to reliably deploy? I'd be using either 1 grain Cesaroni 54mm motors or 1-3 grain 38mm. The 38mm H and I options seem better than the 54mm I's. I'm mostly interested in flying L1 motors right now.

Thanks for the help!

Click to expand...

You can add extra BP to any CTI motors. Actually you can add them to aerotech motors as well. You should always check amount of BP included on a reload to what you actually need.

If you're only planning to fly L1 then the Warlok is the way to go. As you said there are many more 38mm H-I motors available than in 54mm. It will weigh less so you can get more altitude out of those motors too.

This rocket really needs a 2.5-3.0g ejection charge. I lost one due to a weak ejection charge in a J350 (1.7g). I would have also lost my Door Knob at the August launch if I hadn't had the altimeter charge. The motor charge went off first and the charge in the I455 (2.0g) wasn't enough to pop the nose cone off. For the next launch I'm using 2.5g for the altimeter charge and 3.0g for the motor.

Thanks, sounds like 38mm will work then with extra BP. I'm kind of surprised 2g didn't work on the Doorknob. I look forward to seeing the Doorknob fly at october skies!

Rrwjr said:

You can add extra BP to any CTI motors. Actually you can add them to aerotech motors as well. You should always check amount of BP included on a reload to what you actually need.

Click to expand...

I've been wondering about this... How does one go about adding BP to a CTI reload? I've got a 4" Batray that has an awful lot of body tube to pressurize in order to push out a pretty small chute.

CzTeacherMan said:

I've been wondering about this... How does one go about adding BP to a CTI reload? I've got a 4" Batray that has an awful lot of body tube to pressurize in order to push out a pretty small chute.

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Assembly the motor, then wrap wide masking tape around the delay well on the forward closure. This creates a masking tape tube that sticks up above the closure. Put the extra power on top of that (it'll be sitting on top of the paper disc that seals the factory charge). Once you have the extra power in, fold the tape down to close it in, then run an extra strip over the top to secure it.

-Kevin

I ground tested a 2g charge placed right below the nose cone and it blew the NC 23' from the body of the rocket. I did not ground test a charge in the motor. My theory is that the motor charge had 18" of 54mm tubing to traverse, then it had to get past the parachute that was wrapped in a nomex blanket and it just absorbed too much energy. The altimeter charge was on top of the parachute so it's possible that it sealed off the motor mount. I also didn't measure the charge in the motor, so it's possible that it didn't have 2g like it was supposed to.

Any way about it, it shows that having redundant systems is a good idea.

SCrocketfan said:

Thanks, sounds like 38mm will work then with extra BP. I'm kind of surprised 2g didn't work on the Doorknob. I look forward to seeing the Doorknob fly at october skies!

Click to expand...

troj said:

Assembly the motor, then wrap wide masking tape around the delay well on the forward closure. This creates a masking tape tube that sticks up above the closure. Put the extra power on top of that (it'll be sitting on top of the paper disc that seals the factory charge). Once you have the extra power in, fold the tape down to close it in, then run an extra strip over the top to secure it.

-Kevin

Click to expand...

Great! Now, anyone know how much BP comes standard in a CTI 38mm reload?

1.4g


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