LOC Warlock questions

Sorry to post a new thread just for questions but I've been searching for information about the Warlock and have found very little. I'm considering using one for level 1.

Do 38mm DMS/RMS motors have an ejection charge strong enough to deploy a 7.5 inch warlock NC? I'd like to avoid electronics for L1.

Do I need a custom chute setup with pockets to hold the chute and a drogue, or does the kit include recovery hardware?

Finally, anything else I should know about the warlock and using one for L1?

Thanks!
-SC

SCrocketfan said:

Sorry to post a new thread just for questions but I've been searching for information about the Warlock and have found very little. I'm considering using one for level 1.

Do 38mm DMS/RMS motors have an ejection charge strong enough to deploy a 7.5 inch warlock NC? I'd like to avoid electronics for L1.

Do I need a custom chute setup with pockets to hold the chute and a drogue, or does the kit include recovery hardware?

Finally, anything else I should know about the warlock and using one for L1?

Thanks!
-SC

Click to expand...

About 15 years ago, built a LOC Bruiser (Warlock plus another 30" tube) and flew it on a J350 with motor ejection and it worked. Back then, I used to be intimidated by the use of electronics, too - but now I can't believe I flew something like that with motor ejection.

I definitely want to try electronics-just not yet. What chute setup does the warlock come with, do i need to get my own?

If you use a standard 38mm RMS and fully load the ejection well with ffffg black powder, you will have no problem at all with motor ejection on a Warlock. I've done it several times.

I'll go against the prevalent tide and take the position that in something as simple as a Warlock, why bother with electronics? Stuff a motor in it walk out to the pad and fly the silly thing. There are times when I just do not want to spend the time setting up electronics and a Warlock works perfectly for that need. A L1 Motor (I typically use the Loki I405) puts it up about 2,500'. Just some simple rocket fun.

I think the Warlock comes with a 60" flat parachute. More than enough.

The only difference in my builds was to use a bulkhead hard point to attach the harness.

I built a Warlok about 15 years ago. I loved it but lost it to a weak ejection charge and/or nosecone that expanded in the heat. I'd highly recommend adding at least .5 to 1.0g of 4F to a 38mm ejection charge. I'd also recommend using 2x 3/8" wide strips of masking tape to hold the nosecone on instead of trying to friction fit the cone with wraps of tape.

I just built a Door Knob which is basically the same rocket but 10" longer, one more fin and a 54mm motor mount. I'd highly recommend buying the Door Knob over the Warlok. The Warlok will only hit 2000' on a J350. I found that after I had launched it a couple times I wanted a bigger mount. You can fly the Door Knob on an I motor with 250-300N thrust. I had flown my Warlok on motors as small as a H242 (600'), but I wouldn't recommend it.

The kit comes with the parachute, shock cord and quick link. I added a 24" nomex chute protector. I drop the shock cord in first and then lightly wrap the parachute in the nomex.

I uploaded a Rocksim file for the kit when I built it. You can download it here: https://www.rocketreviews.com/file-148705/Warlock.ork.rkt

SCrocketfan said:

Sorry to post a new thread just for questions but I've been searching for information about the Warlock and have found very little. I'm considering using one for level 1.

Do 38mm DMS/RMS motors have an ejection charge strong enough to deploy a 7.5 inch warlock NC? I'd like to avoid electronics for L1.

Do I need a custom chute setup with pockets to hold the chute and a drogue, or does the kit include recovery hardware?

Finally, anything else I should know about the warlock and using one for L1?

Thanks!
-SC

Click to expand...

I'm thinking if you are not using electronics, then you are not doing dual deploy, so you do not need a drogue. All you should need is the main chute, and I believe the kit comes with one.

I'm also considering this one for my L1. It looks like a cool big rocket, but very simple. Another one to consider is the Doorknob. It has a 54 mm mount and is 10 inches longer for about 12 bucks more. That would provide a lot more motor options and could be used for both L1 and L2.

EDIT: Chris beat me to it with the Doorknob suggestion!

Neener Neener Thirsty!!!

ThirstyBarbarian said:

EDIT: Chris beat me to it with the Doorknob suggestion!

Click to expand...

Thanks for the suggestions. I'm not planning on L2 for about 2 years, so I'm not sure which to get since it will max out on an I for now. I don't really care about altitude, but I might get the doorknob just in case. It seems like they are very similar rockets.

If you have your heart set on 38mm for you L1, the LOC Minie-Magg is quite similar to the Warlock in most respects-- but is 5.5" as compared to the 7.5," and will pop the nosecone without problem on motor ejection. It'll fly on big G's through small J's.


Later!

--Coop

SCrocketfan said:

Thanks for the suggestions. I'm not planning on L2 for about 2 years, so I'm not sure which to get since it will max out on an I for now. I don't really care about altitude, but I might get the doorknob just in case. It seems like they are very similar rockets.

Click to expand...

You are right --- they are very similar, and it might be a hard choice. At close to $200, it's worth thinking it through and getting the one that suits your needs.

It looks to me like the main difference is that the extra length and the extra fin on the Doorknob means it is about 25% heavier (122oz vs 100oz). The Doorknob can take 54mm motors (38mm and 29mm with adapters), while the Warlock can take only 38mm (29mm with adapter). Because of the weight difference, they probably cannot both fly on all the same 38mm or 29mm motors (Doorknob might be too heavy for some motors that would work with the Warlock). So it seems like the thing to consider is what kinds of motors do you want to fly, especially if you are going to buy hardware, and what kinds of flight profiles do you like.

I haven't done any legwork or research on this myself yet, so I have no advice on which would be "better." Personally, I don't want to get too complicated or get into electronics at this point, so I don't want the rocket to go too high. And I'm also thinking I'd rather just go with DMS motors instead of reloadables at this point. So, once I get closer to deciding, I'm going to look at what kinds of 38mm and 29mm DMS are available and figure out what kinds of flights I'm going to get with a Warlock on those motors. Then I'll do the same with the Doorknob and the 54mm, 38mm, and 29mm DMS motors. That would be a good starting point for a decision, I think.

After that, I'd consider options for down the road. Both rockets could be outfitted for Dual Deploy after the fact by adding an AV bay. Both rockets will have more motor options if you go with reloadables. The only real difference in that regard would be you have the option for 54mm motors with the Doorknob that you don't have with the Warlock, but if you don't care for the flight profiles you would gain with those motors, you don't really need that option.

Another consideration --- will these rockets even fit in your car!

It seems like with HPR, the "Rocket Science" starts before you even buy the kit!

The ejection well of a DMS motor will hold enough BP to get the job done.

My Door Knob came out at 144oz. That includes about 4 oz worth of altimeter, mount, bulkhead, etc. My Warlok was about 122oz. Setting either one up for altimeter or dual deploy with a cable cutter is the same amount of work. You do not need to add any length to the rocket.

Thirsty has it right though. Figure out what motors YOU want to fly with it. If you're not interested in L2 for a while then the Warlok should be fine. You can always throw a 38/720 or 38/1080 case in it for a L2. I wanted the 54mm mount so I can fly long burn or dual thrust motors that aren't available in 38mm.

I'll go against the grain a bit here. If you are only wanting to stay with L1 motors, I'd get the Magg. It's lighter so it can fly on smaller motors. The 38mm mount is much cheaper to feed than a 54mm. Also, if you decide to get a L2 just pop an J in it and be done, the rocket can easily handle it. I was looking hard at the Warlock and the Doorknob myself but ended up getting a Magg. Mostly because of the reasons above and the fact that to would go higher on an I than the Warlock would. The Magg also takes up less space which is a concern for an apartment dweller. Either way you are going to have fun.

The Warlock does indeed fly well on both I and J motors.

Cool thing is if you don't want to play with electronics, it's easy to keep low enough that you won't be going on a cross-country recovery adventure with apogee deploy.

'tis a fun rocket!

-Kevin

Ok, I'm definitely looking at the warlock then. I'd rather have the slightly lower weight for now. I have a feeling I'll eventually get both a Warlock and Magg, although i'm not sure I'll use either for L1.

Why not? The Magg on an H barely stays in the air long enough to get a decent photo. I have only flown mine on medium I's which is something like a 2100ft flight, that is a picture perfect L1 flight profile.

Another thing to consider with the Warlock is the motor choices are going to be somewhat limited. You basically are in the I's and J's. As mentions above, the Warlock only gets something like 2000-2500ft on a J. A J is about $50-$60 and while impressive in regards to fire and smoke, it isn't going to get the thing up all that high. So essentially you are limiting yourself to a rocket that cost you $50-$60 to fly. It's cool for sure but it adds up. The Magg on the other hand can fly on $25 H motors up to $60 J's. You can also adapt it down to 29mm if you are feeling froggy. It is just more versatile. It's big and fat without being huge and difficult to carry around. The more I fly mine the more I am learning it's the perfect sport rocket. Another kit to consider is the Cletus, it kinda splits the difference between the Magg and Warlock.

Good luck with what ever and definitely use whatever you decide on to get your L1. People have used a heck of a lot smaller to get theirs!

One reason I was also looking at the Magg was to be able to adapt down to G77R and G78G motors that I also use in my Gforce and other rockets. While it won't clear 500 ft, I'll be able to fly it at non high power launches and use cheap motors. In general, I don't care much about altitude. I have a few high altitude, high velocity rockets, but since I mostly fly at Moffet where there's a 1000 ft ceiling I mostly fly low and low rockets. The Warlock would be HPR only and fly at larger launches on I's.

I once launched my Warlok at a LUNAR launch at Roberson Park in Livermore. I used an H242 with a drilled 4 second delay. I got about 400' and was a great flight for that little field. It's a great rocket for Snow Ranch or TCC.

+1 on the Magg my favorite HPR rocket G to J, I have been told you can keep the weight of a Magg loaded under 3.3 lbs and stay under the FFA regs and fly with out a waver but it seems a bit of stretch to me. I would love to have the Warlok and I think it would be great for a lvl 1 I say just buy both why choose?


TA

SCrocketfan said:

One reason I was also looking at the Magg was to be able to adapt down to G77R and G78G motors that I also use in my Gforce and other rockets. While it won't clear 500 ft, I'll be able to fly it at non high power launches and use cheap motors. In general, I don't care much about altitude. I have a few high altitude, high velocity rockets, but since I mostly fly at Moffet where there's a 1000 ft ceiling I mostly fly low and low rockets. The Warlock would be HPR only and fly at larger launches on I's.

Click to expand...

I fly at Moffett occasionally. So does Chris. Maybe we've met? I have difficulty matching screen names to people I've met.

If you want something you could fly there, then the Magg definitely fits the bill --- G motor limit, 1,000 foot ceiling, and a concrete landing surface. It won't go over 1,000 feet on a G80 or similar motor, and the fins look like a good shape for landing on concrete. And you could also use it on a larger motor for L1 on an HPR field.

The Warlock cannot be flown on a G motor, so Moffett is out for that rocket.

So the question would be, what is the primary purpose of the rocket you are looking for? Is it important you be able to fly it at Moffett? Then the Magg makes sense. Or do you have rockets you are happy flying on that field, and you want something to fly primarily on an HPR field? Then maybe the warlock makes sense.

If budget is an issue, then the price difference might mean you could afford motor hardware or a few DMS motors by going with the less expensive Magg.

There's a lot to consider. Have fun deciding! (Seriously)

Does anyone know if the 29MM DMS motors can deploy the warlock NC and chute reliably? I heard they have almost the same BP volume.

I wouldn't trust it. You need 2g of powder for the Warlok. You can purchase 1.4g vials of powder from RCS as EFC reloads if you need some.


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Ok then, 38mm DMS it is.

Even with a 38mm you will need to add powder.


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You just add extra BP to the ejection charge well?

Yup.


TA

If it doesn't fit, run a wrap of masking tape around the top and pour the powder right on top of that. Fold the edges of the tape over to seal. Done! I use this technique in my I-ROC most every flight; I remember watching a guy in our club several years back crash three in a row because they didn't add enough powder. A Warlock has similar requirements.

Anyone have a set of Warlock instructions they are willing to share?

I found some in the gallery by the link appeared to be broken and the image was to blurry to use.


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Most of the LOC instructions are on their website.

https://www.locprecision.com/Contact_Us.php

The 38 mm Motor mount in the Warloc is a waste!
Put at least a 54 mm in it.


JD