Father and sons just getting started

7DeadlySins said:

I can be just a bad as them sometimes lol...already eyeing up the Aerotech Initiator launch kit and how I can convince my wife that it is a suitable xmas present lol...even though I probably have nowhere near by to launch it

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Welcome to the forum!

Aerotech makes great rocket kits! A perfect Xmas gift if you ask me. I have the Aerotech Arreaux (arrow). Great flying, sturdy kit. Just launch from your backyard, no one will notice. lol.

Well today's launches did not go as planned.

First we launched the Farside on a A8-3 and it went up after holding down the button for about 10 seconds straight. Upon the ejection charge the parachute got stuck and did not eject so it fell back to earth and broke two fins off upon landing. Ejection Charge ended up melting the stuck parachute and charing some of the shock cord. Need to pick up a new parachute for it.

Second we tried to launch the Alpha III on a B6-4 and it just wouldn't have it. Tried multiple new batteries, changed igniters, even changed to a different B6-4 motor..still didn't want to go off. We eventually swtiched to an A8-3 and it finally went up..although the wind brought it within 10 feet of a grouping of trees. Guessing the B6-4 would have gone high enough that the wind would have pushed the Alpha III into the trees...perhaps fate was preventing the launch?

Third we launched the Firehawk, took a bit of trying and switching batteries to get it up on a 1/2A3-2T but it eventually launched. Upon ejection though the parachute didn't unwrap/unfold so it like the Farside fell back to earth, but no damage was sustained.

Think I might start baby powdering my parachutes, although I am not sure why the parachute in the Farside got stuck. It is a larger tube than the Alpha III so it wasn't packed in their tightly. I also think the majority of the launch issues stem from the Estes Astron II launch controller and the 9V battery it takes, I think that it can't sustain enough amps to light the igniter on a consistent basis...going to get an Electron Beam controller ASAP...unless you all think the issue is not the controller?

Make sure you are using "Alkaline" 9v batteries and not the useless "Heavy Duty" variety. The kids and I often use our own launch gear at the club we attend. We use the Quest 9v launch controller and can get a few dozen launches without changing batteries,

Jerome

JeromeK99 said:

Make sure you are using "Alkaline" 9v batteries and not the useless "Heavy Duty" variety. The kids and I often use our own launch gear at the club we attend. We use the Quest 9v launch controller and can get a few dozen launches without changing batteries,

Jerome

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Hmm don't think any of the ones we had were "heavy duty" just generic brand ones, from the dollar store and wal-mart. What would I test using an multimeter to see if the 9V's we have are capable of lighting the estes solar igniters? The ones I have so far have been a black substance on the tip, but bought a pack of motors the other day and they had a light almost clear like substance on them...is there a big difference between them? I tested one of the clear tipped igniters and it sort of just fizzled a bit, whereas when I test the black tip ones they flare up a bit like a match head.

The dollar store 9v are usually cheap "heavy duty" types... an "alkaline" 9v is going to run you about $5 even at Walmart! (I ordered a brick of 12 Duracell off Amazon.com for around $20)

Both the older Estes "Solar Igniters" (pyrogen tipped, black) and the new "Starters" (wire-bridge, clear dip) light fine with 9v contollers. How you described them is normal. Both will light BP motors. The new "starters" just take a fraction longer to get going. The biggest thing to get them to work is to install them correctly and dont fiddle with them once installed. Make sure to tip is in contact with the BP and insert the plug in one go at it.


Jerome

Definitely powder the chutes, I have had issues with chute opening when the humidity was pretty low, I assume static cling. I have not had this problem with powdered chutes. Also, I use snap swivels to attach my chutes so I can take them off and hang them for storage. Again, this has helped greatly in reducing deployment failures for me, even during cool weather.

One of my favorite sources for information in the Apogee Peak of Flight Newsletter. Tim Van Milligan has has a wealth of information in the newsletter archives. Check out the topics under parachutes and you will see where I got these ideas from. I sometimes get lost browsing through the topics, trying to decide which one to read first. The link will take you directly to the subject index.

Screaminhelo said:

Definitely powder the chutes, I have had issues with chute opening when the humidity was pretty low, I assume static cling. I have not had this problem with powdered chutes. Also, I use snap swivels to attach my chutes so I can take them off and hang them for storage. Again, this has helped greatly in reducing deployment failures for me, even during cool weather.

One of my favorite sources for information in the Apogee Peak of Flight Newsletter. Tim Van Milligan has has a wealth of information in the newsletter archives. Check out the topics under parachutes and you will see where I got these ideas from. I sometimes get lost browsing through the topics, trying to decide which one to read first. The link will take you directly to the subject index.

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Will be picking up a small thing of baby powder next time I am out at the store will be putting it directly in the flight box. I will also check out that newsletter, thanks for the tip. I am using fishing swivels to attach my parachutes as well. Before we bought the Alpha III kit I watched a series of videos on YT of a gentleman building the Alpha III and that is where I got the information from, seems like a great idea instead of permanently attaching the parachutes to the shock cord or the nose cone.

One thing about baby powder, get talc based powder. Cornstarch based powders may ignite when dispersed (think silo explosions). I am not sure how great the risk is but it is a simple precaution to take.

Screaminhelo said:

One thing about baby powder, get talc based powder. Cornstarch based powders may ignite when dispersed (think silo explosions). I am not sure how great the risk is but it is a simple precaution to take.

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Oh ok, thanks I might have some actual plain ol talcum powder downstairs from years ago..not sure if it is still good though. It's Dr Scholl's foot powder, assuming it would work just as well?

I don't see why not. As long as it has not caked, it should still do the job. I believe that baby powder is popular because it is low cost and easy to find. The cheapest material is that which is already paid for.

More often than not, I have switched to using thin mill nylon chutes. Mostly "orange" Top Flight brand. They are so much easier to use, to see (in the air and on the ground) and open easy. When I first started using them, I only had a couple so I used snap swivels to change them between rockets. I highly encourage you to try some!

Jerome

JeromeK99 said:

More often than not, I have switched to using thin mill nylon chutes. Mostly "orange" Top Flight brand. They are so much easier to use, to see (in the air and on the ground) and open easy. When I first started using them, I only had a couple so I used snap swivels to change them between rockets. I highly encourage you to try some!

Jerome

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Are these the ones?

https://topflightrecoveryllc.homestead.com/thinmil.html

Would there be any benefit to getting a ripstop nylon one? or are the thin mill ones better for LPR? And do you know if they ship to Canada?
I have also cut the center hole out on the standard Estes ones to allow for a faster descent, to acheive the same result with one of TFR's would a smaller diameter (not sure what the standard orange Estes diameter is) or one of the X style work?

Those are the ones!

I like the "thin mill" because they are lighter and fold/fit well in small body tubes. Not sure if they ship to the "Great White North", but many rocket vendors sell this brand. I vary the diameter I use depending on flight conditions. The X form of the same size will come down faster.


Jerome

hcmbanjo said:

Dog Barf works and is very cheap.
But, because it is made of many small pieces you can get "blow-by".
After packing some wadding in the tube, try wrapping one piece of wadding around the rolled parachute.

View attachment 181749

This is one last protective layer and should help with any hot bits that get past the regular wadding.

Here's two blog posts about wadding and a tool to help get a better seal.
Don't pack the wadding in too tight with a "Tamper" like the one shown.
Use it to get a better seal inside the tube sides.

https://modelrocketbuilding.blogspot.com/2012/01/wadding-tamp-tool-part-1.html
https://modelrocketbuilding.blogspot.com/2012/01/wadding-tamp-tool-part-2.html

You should stay with recommended engines until you know how the models perform.
It's no fun to have a rocket nose in, dig itself into the ground then eject the parachute.
Selecting the right delay is important.

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Always love the name Dog Barf. For BARs like me, I didn't know what that was until being on the site for a couple weeks. It is cellulose insulation. 80% paper. NOT fiberglass. Much cheaper and easier than wadding to use!


Launching rockets (or missiles in my case) is so easy a chimp could do it. Read a step, do a step, eat a banana.

Sent from my iPad Air using Rocketry Forum.

Welcome to a lifetime of fun with rocketry. I started as a kid ... introduced it to all of my kids and a herd of Boy Scouts along the way ... can't wait to get my grand-kids started! Don't fret over the mistakes, crashes, and lost rockets along the way ... we have ALL lost rockets and are happy to have a good reason to buy and build new rockets!! You and your kids with have a ton of fun and learn a lot along the way. And sooner or later it will almost certainly lead to bigger rockets.

To add my own tip here, the snap swivels on your chutes is important. An extra step I take is to NOT store the chute folded up in the body tube between launches. Unsnap the swivel and store the chutes neatly folder in ziploc baggies with a dusting of powder. If you have chutes of different sizes, just label the baggies with the name of the associated rocket. Ready nice and crisp for the next flight!

Welcome to TRF!

I just turned into a BAR after re-entering the hobby with my young son two+ years ago. Look for a club in your area (check out NAR.org), for several reasons: One, you won't need to worry about launch equipment if you don't want to. Two, you'll meet tons of great, helpful people. Three, you'll see a huge amount of terrific rockets. My son liked rocketry a lot. Then we went to a couple club launches, and he LOVED it.

I am coming late to this party...but may I suggest you invest in the "Handbook for Model Rocketry" by Harry Stein? You can pick up used copies on eBay and Amazon pretty cheap, and it's a wonderful resource for your kids to dig into as they grow in the hobby and in age.

As for storage of rocket engines, I was paranoid at first, wanting a tin lunch box or fishing tackle box for mine...but have since settled upon a cardboard shoe box and set it on the stone harth of our UNUSED wood furnace in the living room. The thinking is IF something ignites or leaks, the stone is designed to resist the heat...and it would be in a part of the house where it would be most likely discovered. And if something really started going down...it could be tipped back into the fireplace and the doors closed. But again, that's being overly cautious.

Of greater concern is that the motors are not exposed to a freeze-thaw cycle, like in an unheated garage or basement. (I had my first CATO/motor failure last week... but it doesn't appear to be from storage error.)

PS: 7 Deadly Sins... you can modify your account profile to include your location (Kelowna, British Columbia, Canada) and it will timestamp and location stamp all future and past posts. Look under "settings".... and welcome to the club!

Kirk G said:

I am coming late to this party...but may I suggest you invest in the "Handbook for Model Rocketry" by Harry Stein? You can pick up used copies on eBay and Amazon pretty cheap, and it's a wonderful resource for your kids to dig into as they grow in the hobby and in age.

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I glanced through this new book at NARAM. Looks decent. 520 pages, $30. :

Make: Rockets: Down-to-Earth Rocket Science

https://www.amazon.com/dp/1457182920/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

I collect books on rocketry. "The Handbook of Model Rocketry" by G. Harry Stine is a great book to have! The one book that really tied a lot of things together for me is, "Model Rocket Design and Construction" by Tim Van Milligan. I highly recommend adding this one to your rocket library!

https://www.apogeerockets.com/Rocket_Books_Videos/Books/Model_Rocket_Design_And_Construction




Jerome