JB Weld or Epoxy

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AfterBurners

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I have a Madcow Batray and I'm using an Aeropack retainer. I already installed the retainer using JB Weld and it butts flush with the aft center ring. I would like to use a fillet around the center ring and retainer where they meet, but wanted to know what would work best? I was thinking JB Weld because for obviously reasons it can withstand the heat, but will it be as strong as most hobby line epoxies?

Just looking for some feed back

Thanks!:)
 
I personally think that jb weld is a little better than the average hobby line epoxy.
 
Use the JB Weld... It's rated for 500 degrees. Even if you can find hobby epoxy that is stronger than JBW, unless it is heat rated, it will soften and weaken with heat. Remember to rough up the parts with sandpaper before applying JBW, so it will grab better.
 
JB Weld is probably stronger than most hobby epoxies especially when joining two dissimilar materials such as aluminum and wood or aluminum and fiberglass.

I have some ACME conformal rail guides glued to my fiberglass wrapped phenolic tube rocket using JB Weld and I’m pretty certain that you could pull a hunk of the airframe out before dislodging that guide.

I think one of the reasons it isn’t used more for construction is cost, hardening time and the shear messiness of the stuff.

Actually that’s three reasons but who’s counting?

As far as the fillet is concerned; you won't need it.
 
I've used JB on some of my builds, it does tend to get a little warm in that area. Never had a problem with it. Just takes longer to cure.
 
JB-Weld is not stronger than most epoxies. In fact in some measurements it is actually a bit weaker. The key to JB-Weld is its heat transfer capability that comes from the iron filler. JB-Weld is a special purpose epoxy originally designed to resist high temperatures and it is said that the original intent was to fix engine blocks. Using it on a rocket anywhere where heat transfer is not a requirement is a misapplication.
 
Al is correct. Use JB for thermal applications.

That's got me to thinking about how JB Weld would compare in thermal applications to say Aeropoxy or West or RocketPoxy with a carbon steel or stainless steel powdered amendment.

Sounds like a good https://www.rocketmaterials.org/ test.

Greg
 
I know to use JB Weld when installing the retainer. It dried over night and it's solid. I think when I install the motor mount I'll use epoxy fillets where the center ring meets the airframe and where the center ring meets the retainer; just to add a little strength insurance. I plan on flying this bird on an "H" so I want to make sure everything is well secured. I was thinking of getting a 3rd ring, but I think two will be good enough.
 
I use JB for anything that contacts the MMT, not much elsewhere. It's much more economical to get the "industrial size" 10 oz packs (about $18 at Ace HW) than the bitty tubes. I've never seen any authoritative data on strength...the JB Weld site lists only a "3960 PSI" figure. Never had it fail in the thermal applications I use it for.
 
Regardless of what epoxy you use at contact with centering ring/ retainer your rocket will not fall apart. If it does something is wrong elsewhere. I use Aeropack retainers exclusively. All I've ever used at centering ring/retainer for fillets is JB weld.
 
Really guys?? If heat was such an issue, your cardboard motor tubes would be burnt to a crisp and your fiberglass would be a flaming pile of goo.

Come on... lets not over think this.

Jerome :)
 
I have a Madcow Batray and I'm using an Aeropack retainer. I already installed the retainer using JB Weld and it butts flush with the aft center ring. I would like to use a fillet around the center ring and retainer where they meet, but wanted to know what would work best? I was thinking JB Weld because for obviously reasons it can withstand the heat, but will it be as strong as most hobby line epoxies?

Just looking for some feed back

Thanks!:)

If you have already used JB Weld to glue the retainer on, adding a fillet will do nothing more than add weight.
 
It couldn't add that much weight. I've seen guys on here make fin fillets internal and external like they are frosting a cake. Really? Too much weight:lol::lol::lol:

Maybe........................ You're absolutely correct for 97% of the time with sport rockets. Overkill, except if someone intends to stick a horrendously "bad" Ex load
up the tail end to see if that carbon fiber rocket can be converted back to powdered charcol. Then perhaps might not be overkill. But then again, folks might think
their rocket is going to be able to "last forever" so they better "reinforce" it!:wink:
Kurt
 
Really guys?? If heat was such an issue, your cardboard motor tubes would be burnt to a crisp and your fiberglass would be a flaming pile of goo.

Come on... lets not over think this.

Jerome :)

I think the concern is whether or not a non-JBW epoxy would soften like say hot glue or weaken over time due to heat issues.
 
I think the concern is whether or not a non-JBW epoxy would soften like say hot glue or weaken over time due to heat issues.

Ahhhhh, If that's the concern (and it is actually valid if thinking about long term heat soaking of epoxy joints) then 4525 epoxy is actually one of the room temp
adhesives I know of that can stand 500 degree F heat. Only problem is the shelf life and the $$$$$$:

https://www.cotronics.com/vo/cotr/ea_electricalresistant.htm

How long does one actually think their cardboard/plywood rocket is going to last anyways? Probably aren't going to fly with a horrendous motor and eventually might lose it, crash it, wear it out or get so sentimental about it, retire it before the epoxy fails.:grin: Kurt
 
Ahhhhh, If that's the concern (and it is actually valid if thinking about long term heat soaking of epoxy joints) then 4525 epoxy is actually one of the room temp
adhesives I know of that can stand 500 degree F heat. Only problem is the shelf life and the $$$$$$:

https://www.cotronics.com/vo/cotr/ea_electricalresistant.htm

How long does one actually think their cardboard/plywood rocket is going to last anyways? Probably aren't going to fly with a horrendous motor and eventually might lose it, crash it, wear it out or get so sentimental about it, retire it before the epoxy fails.:grin: Kurt

Valid points - For what its worth I used some 30 minute BSI for the AFT center ring fillets and I'm happy with that. Should look purdy once its painted
 
The only reason I have a fillet around my retainer is cosmetic. Besides I don't know about anybody else, but when I install my retainer there is always a bit of JB weld goobered out after installation and I smooth that out with a finger. Makes for a nice finish.
 
On the one hand, I'm a fan of making sure things are built to last, to take abuse, and with an extra measure of security if possible. It's a commonly held notion that using JB weld for mounting motor retainers is good practice, due to it's higher heat properties - fair enough.

But sometimes we (as rocket builders) go WAY overboard when it's simply not necessary. An example is the use of BIG, HEAVY eyebolts that are often many times stronger than the component they are attached to, or the shock cord that gets tied to them.

And so I wonder about the accepted wisdom of using JB Weld for motor retainers sometimes. While it seems to make perfect sense to use something that is more heat resistant, IS IT ACTUALLY NECESSARY? Let's put this question out to the community - has anyone here ever had a glue joint failure, wherein their motor retainer came off during flight because they used "regular" epoxy? I've never heard of any such occurrence (but of course my own personal experience is very limited compared to the greater whole).

I simply LOVE screw-on motor retainers - Aeropac and Slimline, and put them on just about all my rockets. But honestly, it's more of an ease-of-use and style thing than it is about absolutely holding that motor case in there. Heck, if we really needed something bombproof, than how would you explain simple friction fitting which has worked on a LOT of big powerful motors for a lot of flyers over the years? I myself do use JB Weld most of the time (it certainly can't HURT to use it), and I will definitely continue to do so on projects that involve bigger/hotter/longer burning motors. But on quite a few rockets I've used plain epoxy because that's what I had at the moment - and it's always worked just fine for those.

s6
 
How long does one actually think their cardboard/plywood rocket is going to last anyways? Probably aren't going to fly with a horrendous motor and eventually might lose it, crash it, wear it out or get so sentimental about it, retire it before the epoxy fails.:grin: Kurt

The oldest, built rockets in my fleet that I'm willing to fly is ~45 years old (my first Trident, and the Centuri V2). I don't know if they flew in the 60's, but I know that both flew in the 70's, 80's, 90's... However, they've been resting (as has 99.9% of my fleet) since 1995.
 
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On the one hand, I'm a fan of making sure things are built to last, to take abuse, and with an extra measure of security if possible. It's a commonly held notion that using JB weld for mounting motor retainers is good practice, due to it's higher heat properties - fair enough.

But sometimes we (as rocket builders) go WAY overboard when it's simply not necessary. An example is the use of BIG, HEAVY eyebolts that are often many times stronger than the component they are attached to, or the shock cord that gets tied to them.

And so I wonder about the accepted wisdom of using JB Weld for motor retainers sometimes. While it seems to make perfect sense to use something that is more heat resistant, IS IT ACTUALLY NECESSARY? Let's put this question out to the community - has anyone here ever had a glue joint failure, wherein their motor retainer came off during flight because they used "regular" epoxy? I've never heard of any such occurrence (but of course my own personal experience is very limited compared to the greater whole).

I simply LOVE screw-on motor retainers - Aeropac and Slimline, and put them on just about all my rockets. But honestly, it's more of an ease-of-use and style thing than it is about absolutely holding that motor case in there. Heck, if we really needed something bombproof, than how would you explain simple friction fitting which has worked on a LOT of big powerful motors for a lot of flyers over the years? I myself do use JB Weld most of the time (it certainly can't HURT to use it), and I will definitely continue to do so on projects that involve bigger/hotter/longer burning motors. But on quite a few rockets I've used plain epoxy because that's what I had at the moment - and it's always worked just fine for those.

s6

For the most part I only use regular epoxy (granted they are all estes retaainers) and I have never had an issue.
 
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